Talk:White Army, Black Baron

Someone should point out in the article, that the title refers to a general of the White Army, Baron Pyotr Nikolayevich Wrangel (Барон Пётр Николаевич Врангель. The so-called "Second English translation" is useless, it's a romantic interpretation of the original text being sung and already translated in the proper section of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Шпицкомандиръ (talk • contribs) 18:42, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

That was done in the original article when I created it and fixed it up. As for the "Second English Translation," yes, it's not a real translation per se, but I thought that I should include it somewhere and that someone else might move it around (or get rid of it, as it turns out) as necessary. I don't think you mean that it's a "romantic interpretation" but rather that someone took poetic license with it and altered the translation itself to fit the English language in a more lyrical manner. I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's useless, Speech-commander.Ecthelion83 (talk) 03:27, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

The article is fair enough, but it isn't based on any references other than random google results. {{refimprove}}. --dab (𒁳) 10:12, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Biryukov

This seems to be a valid reference even though published online. I am not sure if this is the original publication, or if they are just reproducing text published elsewhere. In any case the author is extremely qualified, as both a musicologist and composer ("currently completing work on a multi-volume edition of an "Anthology of Russian military songs. XVII-XX centuries"). --dab (𒁳) 11:24, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Song title

I'm not certain that "The Red Army is the Strongest" is obviously the song title (as opposed to using the first line in the song, "White Army, Black Baron," which appears to be its popularly-known title - just because a song uses a line more than once does not automatically make that line its title; many songs have titles that are not frequently used on the songs themselves, or in the songs at all). There is no reference or clear evidence (even a picture of a score indicating the title would be proof enough) that this is the correct title; as such, I am going to recommend that it be moved it back to "White Army, Black Baron" until someone can provide hard proof that this isn't the title.Ecthelion83 (talk) 19:59, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Unopposed for over two weeks. Jenks24 (talk) 04:56, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

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The Red Army is the Strongest → White Army, Black Baron – (repeat of what I've said before) As the original creator of the page, I'm not certain that "The Red Army is the Strongest" is obviously the song title (as opposed to using the first line in the song, "White Army, Black Baron," which appears to be its popularly-known title - just because a song uses a line more than once does not automatically make that line its title, which was the original rationale given for the article's first renaming; many songs have titles that are not frequently used on the songs themselves, or in the songs at all). There is no reference or clear evidence (even a picture of a score indicating the title would be proof enough) that this is the correct title. The article lists a YouTube external link that uses the title "the Red Army is the Strongest," but a YouTube search of "White Army, Black Baron" will also yield a great number of results. As such, the original name of the article should be retained until incontrovertible proof of the song's official name can be found and presented. Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 11:28, 27 June 2012 (UTC) Ecthelion83 (talk) 20:19, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

When I moved this page, I did so not because I had any preconception as to what the title should be. What I did was try to convert an article based entirely on google searches into an article based on actual literature. This was not easy, especially as the literature in question is predominantly in Russian, but I did what I could. Based on this research, I decided the article should be moved. Now I am happy to accept that "a YouTube search" shows the original title is more "popular" (as shown by the external link we now have, entitled Popularity of the title "White Army, Black Baron"), and it is even possible to argue that, sod literature, what counts is popularity based on youtube searches.

What I would object to, though, is the dismissal of my research with "just because a song uses a line more than once does not automatically make that line its title". This is was not the basis of the move, and it would be nice to see that some sort of cognitive process went into realizing that and moving things back regardless, instead of the depressing "YouTube search" — "Unopposed for over two weeks" which happened instead.

I am just saying. This is a very minor issue, but it illustrates why I have sort of given up on Wikipedia. Kneejerk procedure will trump painstaking attempts at gathering evidence every time. --130.60.142.82 (talk) 07:50, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

My proposal of translation, so you can sing it too!

White Army and Black Baron

Preparing again us czaristic/imperial throne,

But from taiga to British sea (although in the original version, it says "to British seas")

Red Army is the strongest army! (in the original version, it says "Red army - all stronger", that means: Red army - stronger then all)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.177.174.206 (talk) 15:23, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

"The people's Red Army's at the peak of strength!"

Poetic? Singable? "The people's Red Army's at the peak of strength!" sounds terrible when singing, and so I would recommend a replacement. --CommieKarlovy (talk) 22:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Changed it. Abetlane (talk) 20:56, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Addition of other/modern stanzas

As seen in this version of the song, this song has additional stanzas which are not present in many other versions of the song. To add onto this, I should note that the Red Army Choir commonly does not use the last stanza, alternatively repeating the first one in place of the third one.

I do recommend that these extra stanzas from the other version of the song should be added, or at least given its own section. Abetlane (talk) 20:55, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Lyrics: false/confusing transcription of cyrillic cursive

The lyrics of the refrain are renderd in italics where cyrillic small <т> is shown as <m> (Russian cursive). This can be a porblem or source of confusion for russian language learning beginners who use songs to learn the language. I would change these to normal script. Astralstella (talk) 09:01, 24 January 2024 (UTC)