Talk:William Aramony

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Removal of sourced material[edit]

Unregistered user LDasher removed several sections without explanation on November 3rd & 4th. I have reverted those edits to the original text. LDasher can open a discussion here if s/he can justify the changes made. Mgrē@sŏn 18:18, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Reference 12: New York Daily News: March 10th 1995- EX-CHARITY CHIEF WOOED HER KID SIS By Laurie C. Merrill is Unverifiable. The article cannot be found on the Daily News website or through the link provided. Therefore, all material referenced by this article should be removed. I am removing all content referencing this article and will contest its inclusion if it is readmitted. Laramony (talk) 02:57, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

The article can now be found here: [[1]] Clovis Sangrail (talk) 03:22, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Disputed Information[edit]

The article "William Aramony" has numerous inaccuracies as well as incomplete information. I have attempted to correct erroneous information but my edits have been deleted. I have also attempted to add documented information to the article and that has also been deleted. I have documented inaccuracies below, and will submit additional information under an Edit Request on a separate talk page. If this procedure is not correct, please advise.

Disputed information: Early Years: William Aramony was one of five children, not four. He is married, not "was" married and he has three children, not one. His youngest son, Robert, was born in 1957, not 1958. Robert is not President of Sales Service America. I do not know how to provide references for this information short of acquiring the birth certificates of each of his siblings, his marriage license and the birth certificates of his children.

Corrected birth year of son Robert, which was determined by his quoted age in an article. The article does not state that Aramony had one child, it only refers to his child, Robert.
The Time magazine source states: "The directors of one spin-off, Sales Service/America, which markets United Way trinkets to local affiliates, hired the boss's son, Robert Aramony, to be its president. The younger Aramony's salary has not been disclosed." Mgrē@sŏn 09:09, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

United Way Career: William never worked at United Way National Capital Area. Correct: Mr. Aramony came to his national position in 1970, after 17 years of local service in United Ways in South Bend, Indiana; Columbia, South Carolina; and Dade County (Miami), Florida. (reference: The United Way, The Next Hundred Years, published by Donald L. Fine, Inc. copywright 1987)

Removed "United Way National Capital Area" statement to correct error. I could not find the book reference you cited on the internet. If you can identify the page number(s), the locations can be included in the article. Mgrē@sŏn 09:09, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

The article states: "He also created the minority roundtable and helped develop numerous United Way leaders. That may not be a positive attribute; Ralph Dickerson Jr., at United Way of New York City; Oral Suer and Norman O. Taylor from United Way of the National Capital Area all had problems distinguishing between personal and United Way assets." This statement is written with clear bias. Unbiased statement of fact: In 1976 Mr. Aramony created a National Corporate Leadership Program in an effort to increase employees’ understanding of and commitment to, United Way.

NYT source states: "The United Way of New York City said yesterday that an internal investigation had determined that its former leader, Ralph Dickerson Jr., diverted $227,000 of charitable assets for personal use in 2002 and 2003. Mr. Dickerson was one of a group of United Way executives who rose to prominence under the administration of William Aramony, whose long rule of the United Way of America ended in 1995 with a seven-year prison sentence for fraud, tax evasion and conspiracy. In 2004, Oral Suer, an Aramony supporter who had headed the United Way of the National Capital Area, in Washington, for 27 years, settled charges that he had faked expenses, billed personal trips to the organization and failed to pay cash advances. He pleaded guilty to theft of almost $500,000 and is in prison. Mr. Suer's replacement, Norman O. Taylor, also an associate of Mr. Aramony, was forced to resign amid the scandal but was never charged with wrongdoing." Mgrē@sŏn 09:09, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Indictment: Aramony was not charged with "drawing retirement benefits from the United Way of America retirement fund while he was still working there.” The indictment against William Aramony had 54 counts, not 71. Of those, 27 were dismissed, he was found not guilty of 4 and guilty of 23, not 25. Charges included mail fraud and wire fraud, and filing false tax returns. Reference: United States v. William Aramony.

Note: This issue still stands. Aramony was not charged with drawing retirement benefits from the United Way of America retirement fund while he was still working there. Source: United States v. William Aramony, January 26, 1995, U.S. Department of Justice. Not available online. Unless wikipedia can produce a legal document that verifies this statement, it should be deleted. Laramony (talk) 21:23, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

The original source (NonProfit Times) made this statement, but the article has since been removed. The charges in the indictment were preliminary anyway, so I removed the "indicted for..." informational passage. Mgrē@sŏn 21:06, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Other Issues: The article states: "A secondary issue that was not litigated was the Sexual harassment committed by William Aramony." Because William Aramony was not accused of or convicted of sexual harassment, this statement is written with bias and is slanderous of a living person.

Changed to "alleged" sexual harassment. He was accused of sexual harassment in the indictment, but the prosecutor chose to concentrate on the most serious crimes.Mgrē@sŏn 09:17, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Unbowed: The article states, “Aramony never acknowledged any wrongdoing or expressed remorse.” This is written with bias and is slanderous of a living person. The phrase "or expressed remorse" should be removed, since the author has no basis for knowledge of this fact.

I suppose I could agree that if a person has convinced himself that he hasn't done anything wrong, they cannot be expected to be remorseful. Mgrē@sŏn 09:09, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Scandal Begins "Many disaffiliated themselves and discontinued their 1% "contribution" of dues to the national office; some filed name changes." No local United Ways filed name changes. Some, but not "many" discontinued their contributions at the time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Laramony (talk) 12:05, 10 November 2011 (UTC)Laramony (talkcontribs) 20:35, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

This source at the time says otherwise; no doubt over the last 20 years, the local UWs have gotten over their outrage at UWA and joined the team. Mgrē@sŏn 18:43, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

I will evaluate each of the points you made later this evening. Mgrē@sŏn 21:30, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
Most items have been addressed, but I will complete the review later today. Mgrē@sŏn 09:37, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
I have completed my review and made some justified changes. If you disagree with my evaluation, please include your comments and we can request a review by a uninvolved third party administrator. Mgrē@sŏn 21:41, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

EspionageWriter[edit]

Regarding: "That may not be a positive attribute; Ralph Dickerson Jr., at United Way of New York City; Oral Suer and Norman O. Taylor from United Way of the National Capital Area all had problems distinguishing between personal and United Way assets.[1]" I deleted on basis of biased language; creation of minority roundtable is an accomplishment separate from any alleged wrongdoing by unaffiliated colleagues. Moreover, the language is offense and racially charged, as it implies that Aramony's recruitment of minorities had anything to do with alleged malfeasance by individuals.

After restoring the text you removed, I split the two items into separate paragraphs and revised the language to unlink them. Mgrē@sŏn 21:56, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

I deleted the following, because it is based on U.S. Attorney's charges, which were dismissed and provably false:

But Aramony moved Lori into her own expensive condominium in New York and furnished it lavishly with Partnership Umbrella dollars.[2] Aramony siphoned hundreds of thousands of charity dollars through ‘’Partnership Umbrella’’ to spend on fancy meals, trips and gifts, to keep her as his mistress.[3] — Preceding unsigned comment added by EspionageWriter (talkcontribs) 18:38, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

I restored the text you deleted because the statements are based on reputable sources and you provided nothing to support your contention that it was "provably false". Mgrē@sŏn 21:56, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Moreover, the U.S.government dropped this false allegation about the purchase of the New York apartment in its brief for the U.S. Court of Appeals: caselaw.findlaw.com/us-4th-circuit/1435879.html. Therefore, such unsubstantiated and false allegations have no place in a Wikipedia entry except within such context. — Preceding unsigned comment added by EspionageWriter (talkcontribs) 19:03, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

I read through the "UNITED STATES v. ARAMONY" case and found no reference to the "purchase of the New York apartment". If you can cite the page and paragraph, I agree that it should be removed. Mgrē@sŏn 21:56, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

The false accusation that you have restored -- "But Aramony moved Lori into her own expensive condominium in New York and furnished it lavishly with Partnership Umbrella dollars" -- is, you say, based on "reputable sources." The citation is the New York Daily News article of March 10, 1995. But it is directly contradicted by another source that some (not you) would consider more reputable, the New York Times. The NY Daily News article talks, sloppily, about how he "spent hundreds of thousands of charity dollars to keep her in a posh New York City apartment." The implication is that Aramony purchased this apartment for Villasor. This is factually incorrect. To quote from the New York Times: "Partnership Umbrella, another of the spin-off companies, bought and furnished a $430,000 apartment in the Bristol Hotel in Manhattan that is used by the older Mr. Aramony. He described it as a two-room combined office-residence that he uses instead of a hotel, thereby saving money, and said it was used also by company members." http://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/24/us/united-way-awaits-inquiry-on-its-president-s-practices.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm Thus, the NYT reports that Aramony did not "move Lori into her own expensive condominium." It was not "her own." It was owned by a legitimate spin-off corporation, Partnership Umbrella. Not by Aramony or by Villasor. Another New York Times account publishes an explanation for why the United Way board approved the purchase of an apartment in New York for the use of its CEO, after 18 years of renting an apartment: "The $459,000 to buy and furnish an apartment in New York City by Partnership Umbrella Inc., a for-profit spinoff of the United Way of America, made financial sense. "We had been renting for 18 years," he said. "They were trying to upgrade the rent." http://www.nytimes.com/1992/04/10/us/ex-chief-of-united-way-vows-to-fight-accusations.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

I re-read several of the sources and agree that the condominium was not purchased for Ms. Villasor. The article has been changed as such. Mgrē@sŏn 21:20, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Since Mr. Greason has clearly demonstrated an inability to verify sources and persists in refusing to allow Wikipedia to correct the facts even when presented with reliable journalistic sources, I would like to request an unbiased 3rd party Wikipedia editor to mediate. Mr. Greason's bias is damaging Wikipedia's credibility. — Preceding unsigned comment added by EspionageWriter (talkcontribs) 21:11, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

  1. ^ New York Times: April 14, 2006-United Way Says Ex-Leader Took Assets by Stephanie Strom
  2. ^ Cite error: The named reference NYDN was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  3. ^ Cite error: The named reference TIME2 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).