Talk:Zane

Format for disambiguation

While the article at Wikipedia:Disambiguation recommends a list of people then places, at the top of the page it is written: "However, it is not set in stone and should be treated with common sense and the occasional exception." Because so many of the articles on this page are connected to the Zane family, I think that fact should be noted in some way. -- SwissCelt 12:18, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Make a "Zane family" article. The page, as I found it, was unnecessarily confusing and seemed to be going 101from a disambiguation page to...something else. This is not an article about one group of people named "Zane" and things supposedly named after them. And, if we're going to include those things,—which might be a bad idea, now that I think of it.—they'll have to go in the proper place. This page is meant for clean and clear disambiguation only. It is not an article in the formal sense and should not be treated as such. Descriptions should stay short, but sweet, and avoid linking to anything, especially another person named Zane. Also, I noticed you simply reverted my edit whole sale rather than, at the very least, including the latest addition in the way of some named Zane. I call that lazy editting. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 16:31, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Done. And you'll note that Zane now redirects there, which is how it should have been from the start. -- SwissCelt 03:42, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cute. A biased redirect is hardly "how it should be". I'll be changing that redirect, in fact. This "Zane family" is hardly more notible than the name itself. I'll also be posting a move request. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 03:52, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What in the world are you talking about, ACS? Originally, all articles with the name "Zane" referred in some way to the Zane family of Ohio. The article at Zane reflected this fact. As other articles were added containing the name Zane which weren't related to the family, a disambiguation page developed organically. Now, since you insist upon whittling this square peg into the round hole of Wikipedia:Disambiguation, it's only right that there be a Zane (disambiguation) article, freeing up Zane for its original intent of chronicling the Zane family. I have no idea how you can justify saying that the name of a family is more notable than the family itself. This is an encyclopedia, not a dictionary. -- SwissCelt 04:20, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Can you prove that this family is the originator? ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 04:32, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Originator of what? The name Zane? No, but that shouldn't matter. Again, this is not a dictionary. The project does not exist to define names. The name Zane, however, most commonly refers in some way to the Zane family. For one example, see Zanesville, Ohio. -- SwissCelt 04:50, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Paragraph about the name

Put material about name in English and US society first - almost all the names below are for English-speaking countries, not Arabic. It likely came to be used in English-speaking countries via the Old Testament of the Bible.--Parkwells (talk) 18:16, 26 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was moved per below. Jonathunder 16:46, 21 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Zane (disambiguation) → Zane – Name predates all other uses and is far more notible than them. As is, the redirect page of "Zane" will likely be fought over.

Survey

Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with four tildes: ~~~~

Support for main reasons stated above. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 04:01, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. You cannot possibly claim that a disambiguation page is itself the primary topic for disambiguation. That's preposterous. -- SwissCelt 04:10, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Support. WP:DAB says primary meaning is indicated by a majority of links in existing articles and consensus of the editors of those articles that it will be significantly more commonly searched for and read than other meanings. All due respect to the Zane family, but I don't think they qualify. Bolivian Unicyclist 17:31, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Support. As per nom, and especially the Kennedy reference below. --SigPig 11:51, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Okay, I'll admit that I may be really dense here. Still, I can't imagine how the name Zane wouldn't ultimately refer to members of the Zane family and related articles (e.g. Zanesville, Ohio) in the majority of cases. Is there a use of "Zane" more notable than these? If so, what is that usage? What am I missing here? -- SwissCelt 04:59, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose what you're missing is that a disambiguation page isn't a formal article and tye Zane family article can't be a disambiguation page. Ultimately, "Zane" can refer to a lot more than this one family. Thus, the other uses on the main page. Linking to the family article over this page, isn't helpful or a showing of NPOV. The disambiguation page lists all things referring to Zane in a clear and short manner. Your "Zane family" just links as desired or needed. For example, The Captain or Richie. A lot of notible uses there. Still, no one takes the title(s) whilst the others are simply left on The Captain (disambiguation) and/or Richie (disambiguation). To put it simply, the name is more notible. And, as it's hard to trace the origin of most common names, they just become disambiguation pages. The only fair exceptions I've seen are for locations: Jordan, Shadwell, et cetera; and special honors/titles: Augustus. Just think of it as what the name implies: a way to make things less ambiguous. Also, if it makes you feel any better, a similar and odder thing is done with plurals like Eels and Heroes. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 05:22, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But again, the vast majority of uses of the name Zane refer to this family. I'm not intending Zane family to be a disambiguation page. The family is a notable subject, just as the Kennedy family is. And what's this about NPOV? It's not a POV to state, as I'm stating, that these articles (Ebenezer Zane, Zane Gray, and all of the places listed on this dab page) are all linked. -- SwissCelt 11:29, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Your desire to see the Zane family linked over everything else is what seems to be the POV issue. Also notice that Kennedy is not a redirect to that article. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 20:40, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.