Template:Did you know nominations/Domaine Ponsot

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Orlady (talk) 17:45, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Domaine Ponsot[edit]

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... that Domaine Ponsot makes the only 1^er Cru Aligoté in Burgundy?

Reviewed: Tiverton Museum of Mid Devon Life
Comment: Could also use ALT1:"... that Domaine Ponsot makes the only Premier Cru Aligoté in Burgundy?" in the case that the 1^er abbreviation seems too hard to understand.

Created/expanded by Tthaas (talk). Self nom at 16:14, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

QPQ done. New enough and long enough. Image has fair use rationale. Article is neutral enough. Article is fully supported by sources. Plagiarism spotcheck [1] [2] [3] show no major cause for concern. Hook is properly formatted.
Hook fact is found only in the lead but cited. Source supports hooked fact. Not sure how neutral it is as the source is the wine maker and the hook sounds a bit promotional as a result. --LauraHale (talk) 08:17, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Source is a Clive Coates, a well-respected British Master of Wine specializing in the wines of Burgundy, not the domaine. The uniqueness of the wine is worthy of note; Premier Cru Burgundy is only 12% of all Burgundy acreage anyhow (total Premier Cru acreage is approx. 3450 hectares) -- see here, and this is .98 hectares of Premier Cru, or just under .03% of the total acreage of that, or approximately 1 bottle in 28,000 of Burgundy (1 bottle in 3,333 of Premier Cru). Hook is now cited inline in the text here. Tthaas (talk) 16:09, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Propose more neutral, less promotional alternative hook not relying on primary source. --LauraHale (talk) 08:17, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Source is secondary (Coates makes his living writing about Burgundy and consulting with consumers, not making wine. The domaine is -- best as I can tell -- wholly-owned by the Ponsot family.). If you really want an alt, I'd propose ALT2:"... that Domaine Ponsot is the largest landholder in the Burgundy Grand Cru vineyard, Clos de la Roche?", but I genuinely think that the initial hook or ALT1 is better as it's more unique. Tthaas (talk) 16:09, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Second opinion needed on hook neutrality vis-a-vis potential advertising sounding like neutrality. --LauraHale (talk) 22:11, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

To make an analogy, the hook is akin to using the hook "... that Rønning Treski is the only producer of hand-made wooden skis in Norway?" To wit, Ponsot is unusual in making the only Aligoté out of a 1^er Cru vineyard in the entirety of Burgundy (most Aligoté is grown in literally the worst sites in Burgundy; the ones that would completely fail to successfully grow Pinot Noir, Pinot Blanc, Pinot Gris, or Chardonnay. As such, a 1^er Cru vineyard being used for it is more than a little unusual.). Similarly, Rønning is unusual in that they produce a unique product, hand-made wooden skis. Noting the unusual-ness seems a natural hook for a DYK.

I would genuinely appreciate a longer explanation as to how you feel I'm not using a NPOV/potentially advertising in this article if you've got the time and inclination; feel free to post it to my talk page if you like. From what I can see at WP:NOTADVERTISING, it's in the clear -- there's a citation leading to an expert noting that the domaine is the only producer of 1^er Cru Aligoté, it's not an outside link to a product, etc. Perhaps there's a misunderstanding about the "1^er Cru" part; the rating in this case refers to the vineyard where the grapes are grown, not the quality of the resultant wine (although, in general, better wine is made out of top vineyards -- see terroir) or the producer, as contrasted with the Cru system in Bordeaux. Perhaps this Decanter article may help to explain it? Or am I off-base in some way I don't see? Tthaas (talk) 01:55, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

I'd prefer that it is clarified that Aligoté is a kind of grape, which would make this easier to parse. I don't think it's too promotional. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:25, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Mulling over this one and comparing it to barbecue nation, I think this one is fine. Will give tick to go on the original hook. --LauraHale (talk) 06:39, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

I'll agree with Crisco, above -- how about ALT3:"... that Domaine Ponsot makes the only 1^er Cru wine in Burgundy out of the Aligoté grape?" That empahsizes what aligoté is, for those who aren't familiar. Tthaas (talk) 10:59, 23 July 2012 (UTC)