Template:Did you know nominations/Patrick Francis Healy
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:31, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
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Patrick Francis Healy
Patrick Francis Healy
... that Patrick Francis Healy (pictured) is often considered the first Black American to become a Jesuit, earn a Ph.D., and become the president of a predominantly White university?Source: "...Father Healy may be considered the first African-American to earn a doctorate, the first African-American to become a Jesuit priest, and the first to serve as president of a predominantly white college." (National Park Service)
- Reviewed: Battery Maritime Building
Improved to Good Article status by Ergo Sum (talk). Self-nominated at 05:23, 6 March 2021 (UTC).
Very nice work and a remarkable story. Article is new enough (GA promotion), long enough, and policy compliant. Earwig detects no issues. Hook is short enough and interesting. QPQ requirement satisfied.
- One issue holds me back from approval. The cited Washington Post source doesn't assert as a factual matter that Healy was the first Black American to earn a Ph.D. Rather, it says that he's "thought to be the first black ever to earn one." The National Park Service article is also equivocal is saying "Father Healy may be considered the first African-American to earn a doctorate, the first African-American to become a Jesuit priest, and the first to serve as president of a predominantly white college." Is there a less equivocal source for this asserted claim? Cbl62 (talk) 18:31, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
- Also, he was only 1/16 black and self identified and passed as white. While he may have been considered to be Black by the defunct "one-drop rule" of his day, is it really accurate to call him a "Black American"? I don't know the right answer on this but raise it as a question. See discussion here. Cbl62 (talk) 18:40, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
- I did not include the other sources in the DYK nom (maybe I should have), but many of the other sources in the article support the proposition that today, Healy is widely regarded and described as Black. There was still some debate about this point in the 20th century, when it became widely known that he was mixed race, but mainstream sources are fairly unanimous on this point now. Indeed, other sources describe him unequivocally as the first Black president of a White university. The Park Service's hedged language is due, I assume, to the fact that the first part of the sentence tries to distinguish the one-drop rule of the past from the more subjective notions of race that are generally held today. Ergo Sum 19:30, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
- On second thought, that logic actually supports a somewhat less definitive statement, especially because there are some authorities that, as you say, do not say he was the first but that he is regarded as the first, etc. I've rephrased the language a bit. Feel free to revert. Ergo Sum 19:36, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
- Also, he was only 1/16 black and self identified and passed as white. While he may have been considered to be Black by the defunct "one-drop rule" of his day, is it really accurate to call him a "Black American"? I don't know the right answer on this but raise it as a question. See discussion here. Cbl62 (talk) 18:40, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
- I've been thinking about this and am not very familiar with the racial sensitivities surrounding the issue of what qualifies as "Black", but what do you think of something that addresses the issue squarely, such as:
- * alt 1
... that, though he passed as white, Patrick Francis Healy (pictured) is thought to be the first black American to become a Jesuit, earn a Ph.D., and become president of a predominantly white university?Cbl62 (talk) 20:56, 7 March 2021 (UTC)- To me, the language of "is thought" that the NPS uses is very unclear. It implies that the statement is a fact that cannot be verified due to uncertainty. The question is really not one of factual uncertainty but of opinion, i.e. does one consider Healy black or not. given his background. I might offer a tweaked alternative. It simply says "described as," which allows the reader to then go to the article for further explanation. Ergo Sum 21:08, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
alt 2 ... that though he self-identified and passed as white, Patrick Francis Healy (picutred) was posthumously described as the first black American to become a Jesuit, earn a Ph.D., and become the president of a predominantly white university?
- alt 3 ... that only posthumously was Patrick Francis Healy (pictured) described as the first black American to become a Jesuit, earn a Ph.D., and become the president of a predominantly white university?
