User talk:Alarob/Archive 4

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The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue XX - January 2008

The January 2008 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by KevinalewisBot -- 12:40, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


Seal of Georgia.svg Flag of Georgia (U.S. state).svg

coordinator election

The Wikiproject History is going to elect 3 coordinators. As a member you are invited to participate. Wandalstouring (talk) 12:28, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue XXII - March 2008

The March 2008 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This is an automated delivery by KevinalewisBot --15:46, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Novels - 1st Coordinators Election

An election has been proposed and has been set up for this project. Description of the roles etc., can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels/Coordinators. If you wish to stand, enter your candidacy before the end of March and ask your questions of anyone already standing at Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels/Coordinators/May 2008. Voting will start on the 1st April and close at the end of April. The intention is for the appointments to last from May - November 2008. For other details check out the pages or ask. KevinalewisBot (talk) 12:01, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Biography pages and NPOV

Hello, Rob -

I'm relatively new to Wikipedia. I found your comments about my bio page ( to be strange. Here's another page I found while doing a search for something unrelated. It contains no "tags" by Wiki editors, yet it seems to me to be precisely the same sort of page: written by a single source with a single POV. It's not "journalism" either. In fact very little of Wikipedia is "journalism." Everyone is promoting solo points of view, which then become editable by others.

What's the distinction? Why are many individuals and corporations allowed to write their own Wiki pages, while some of us are criticized for doing so? Is posting a bio somehow "improper" on Wikipedia? If so, why? What's the right ettiquette? Getting someone else to post my bio for me? A PR agent or employee?

In the case of my bio page, of course, it is editable just like most other Wikipedia pages. One of these days, when I have lots more time, I'll get around to inserting all the many links Wikipedia prefers in my text. I'm not resisting that; it's a great idea. Just haven't had the time.

Thanks for your guidance.

Ralph —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 17:17, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Response to Kathleen question

I replied to your question on the Kathleen, Georgia talk page, please let me know if my resonse did/did not answer your questions; thank you. Civilengtiger (talk) 02:23, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


Are you still watching this? Somebody tagged it for speedy as spam, which it isn't really; but I am not sure it passes WP:CORP. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:20, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence

Hello. I'm contacting you and other members of WikiProject Books in order to find if you are interested in collaborating to expand and improve The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence article to make it worthy of becoming a featured article candidate, in light of the fact that it is the first book the U.S. government ever went to court to censor before its publication. --Loremaster (talk) 22:13, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like a good candidate for a FA. I don't have the time to actively assist, but will help with the copy editing phase as I can. -- Rob C. alias Alarob 16:26, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Great. Please check out the Talk:The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence page. --Loremaster (talk) 20:06, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

RE:Criticism of Muhammad

I just reverted vandalism to the article. It was reverted to the previous version. I don't know what's left out. Undeath (talk) 13:09, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Ring shout

@User talk:Steve Pastor: Thanks for your contribution to the article. I am about to add more biographical information about Zimbabwe Dance based on the record in OCLC WorldCat. Your information may open up a whole new area of literature on this subject. Does Welsh-Asante mention the ring shout in his text? And if so, does he also make a connection to dance forms in Angola? I know cultural traditions often cross national boundaries in Africa. -- Rob C. alias Alarob 08:58, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I probably had the same thought you did. That being that the ring shout is an Americanized version of African dances(s) as described by Welsh-Asante. The book was very specific to Zimbabwe. I looked a bit to find an drawing from early years to see if men and women were co mingled in the circle, for instance. But had no luck. I've got a couple more books out, and hope to find more. Glad to have you working on this. Hope you can find some good stuff. Steve Pastor (talk) 15:45, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
What, if anything, does Welsh-Asante say about the ring shout? (I can't check out the book right now.) -- Rob C. alias Alarob 21:15, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

She didn't say anything, if memory serves correctly, and I'm sure I would have noted it if she had. (book is back in library) Meanwhile, look for info from Jazz Dance. Steve Pastor (talk) 21:28, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

In that case, I hate to say it, but I think we need to remove all the references to dance in Zimbabwe. One reason is that Zimbabwe is a region of Africa that was not as significantly affected by the slave trade, so did not contribute to the African diaspora as Angola and especially West Africa did. The ring shout is a phenom of the African diaspora, so any resemblance between modern Zimbabwean dance and the ring shout is most likely coincidental. Another reason is that in writing about the ring shout for Wikipedia, we have to confine ourselves to sources that specifically discuss the ring shout. Otherwise we're doing original research, or speculation, which is not what an encyclopedia is for.
The Stearns book seems to be a much better source. I think the description of the movements of the dance would fit better in the previous section, "Description," rather than under "Origin."
The part about "the African Circle Dance" is vague. Can you track it down to its source in Stearns, rather than using the indirect quote in Inequality in Early America? Maybe there's a book or two that the Stearnses borrowed from for their info on the ring shout. If so, I'll be glad to try to track them down in a few weeks. The shorter the chain of writers quoting other writers, the better off we'll be.
I'm glad there's another editor with a sustained interest in the ring shout! It's a great topic, and I think this article could become good enough for the front page (i.e., a "featured article.") -- Rob C. alias Alarob 22:09, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

If A then B. The one source says a circle dance was common among Arficans "Inequality..." To me this substantiates the text in "Jazz Dance". A quick google search turned up several references for African Circle Dance. I picked the most authoritative one. While I agree with you that it would be better to go to the original source, the Jazz Dance book is good enough reference for me. I suspect that they thought that it was such an obvious thing that they didn't need to list a reference. And with the additional material from "Inequality..."....Both sources are verifiable, too. So, I'm good with the quality of the text. If you move things around, it's OK with me. Also, if you think that the referenced material does not meet Wiki standards... For me, this a stop on a much longer journey to learn more about African, and African American dance. Steve Pastor (talk) 23:19, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I had another thought about this...As I was reading the descriptions of the dances highlighted in the Zimbabwe book, I couldn't help but note that traditionally African dance was very conservative within it's own context. You learned the dances the prescribed way, and only when you had mastered that were you allowed to improvizes. Also, the well defined, and different roles of men an women are apparent. On a trip to Tanzania about 2 years ago, one athletic woman in our group joined in with the men doing the jumping dance, adumu when we stopped at a Maasai "cultural boma". The women gently took her over with the other women who were performing a much subdued movement. The freedom to improvise, the breaking down of role by gender, including the mixing of the sexes, dancing as partners rather than as a group, these are all things that happened during the African American experience. They are NOT characteristic of African dance. Leaving the Zimbabwe text in, at least gives people some clue about how things changed from Africa. Steve Pastor (talk) 15:30, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I need to do some reading before I can revise your contribution, but I do think it needs revising. One problem is the vagueness of referring to "African" dance. Africa is a big continent. The Atlantic slave trade threw sub-Saharan Africans from the west coast together with West Africans speaking a dozen different languages, Malagasy rice farmers, and a few Muslim scholars who could write Arabic. These were not people who had known much about each other before, they did not understand each other's speech, and they had little if any idea of a shared place called "Africa." This is the melange that formed African American culture. Much of the African continent, including Zimbabwe, played no part in this process. As far as I know, none of the Shona or Maasai people were enslaved in the Americas, nor is there culture the same as that of the Bakongo and other sub-Saharan peoples who were frequently enslaved by European traders. This is why I don't agree with drawing on features of Zimbabwean (or Kenyan) cultures to help interpret the African American ring shout. For example, while Shona and Maasai dancers strictly segregate men and women, it does not follow that all African cultures did so in the 1600s and 1700s.

I hope I've explained why looking at Zimbabwe does not give "some clue about how things changed from Africa." To put it plainly, Africa just isn't that simple. -- Rob C. alias Alarob 16:46, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

If you can cite examples of men and women dancing together as partners, people making up their own "moves" without first learning how to do it correctly, or dances where there were not well defined roles based on the gender of the individual in traditional African dance, I would most certainly be interested in reading them. I have cited examples where the converse is true. Steve Pastor (talk) 18:24, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Well, I would begin by looking in regions of Africa most affected by the slave trade, as this is an American phenomenon, not an African one. Anyway, if you are trying to construct a theory about the origins of the ring shout, then brother, Wikipedia is not the place to do it. I didn't make that rule. The guidelines for content are in About Wikipedia, linked from the main page. Original research is specifically excluded.
To contribute to this article, it's essential to research what is already known about the ring shout, not to bring up other stuff that you think might be related. The article already mentions the only origin theories I'm aware of. If you find more information in your study of African dance, then please share it. But it must be about the ring shout, specifically, and it must come from a reliable source.
I'm not trying to cut you out; in fact, I hope you will stay interested and contribute. But keep in mind that this is a historical article about the African diaspora in the Americas. If you really think you can look at a tribal dance in east Africa in 2008 and draw conclusions about enslaved Africans in the Americas, then I don't think you'll be able to help much. Even tribal people have a history, and not all black people are alike. I assumed you understood that. -- Rob C. alias Alarob 19:32, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Proposal for standard infobox for History of [country] templates

Hi there! You're a member of WikiProject History, so I'm just informing you about a proposal I've made about standardizing History of [country] templates (like Template:History of France). The discussion is located at the talk page for WikiProject History—your comments and criticism are welcome. Thank you. Mr. Absurd (talk) 05:02, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Natural History Museum of Basel

You're welcome - if only all my edits were as straightforward ! :-) CultureDrone (talk) 18:35, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Zheng He

I've responded to your revert on the Zheng He Talk page. DOR (HK) (talk) 04:17, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Revue Bibliothèque de l'École des Chartes

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A tag has been placed on Revue Bibliothèque de l'École des Chartes requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a company or corporation, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not indicate the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for companies and corporations.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that a copy be emailed to you. Unforgiven24 (talk) 12:43, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I support the deletion. This article was created in an attempt to resolve a problem with a misnamed article, Bibliothèque de l'École des Chartes. I had thought articles would be needed about both the Bibliothèque and the Revue Bibliothèque, an academic journal and the actual subject of the existing article. But I find that we already have an article on École nationale des chartes which can include info on the Bibliothèque, so this page is not needed after all. I think a single move (Bibliothèque de l'École des Chartes to Revue Bibliothèque de l'École des Chartes) will solve the problem. Will say so in the speedy-delete discussion. -- ℜob C. alias ⒶⓁⒶⓇⓄⒷ 12:50, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

French article

Hi Rob -- I wasn't able to find the language section of which you wrote in my talk. BTW, I was trying to get some help in translating a piece from English to French and maybe get it in Le Monde -- since it's practically impossible to get anyone here to publish a Hispanic woman on the serious subject of politix -- I suspect that being Hispanic means people will reduce your IQ by at least 30 points. The piece is my take on Sarah P. and I posted it on my French page talk. Mig (talk) 00:46, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Syllabics template

I was thinking something in a square, with a symbol from each of the variations. (IE Ojibwe/Cree, Blackfoot, Inuktitut, and 'other'.) I'll make it in a little while. vıdıoman 06:35, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Unicode covers most of them, there a few that were invented recently I think that it doesn't cover but they're rare. The Blackfoot and Carrier syllabics are two variations that use modified or unique symbols, but they're part of CAS, so I think it would be good to include them. That way we won't need templates for them. By Cree syllabics, I meant the common looking ones, though Western and Eastern Cree move the dot that represents a w before a vowel to the other side of the glyph. vıdıoman 23:07, 3 October 2008 (UTC)


Hey. I noticed you're a contributor on the german wikipedia, and I was wondering if you could help me translate some news articles in german to english for using in the Casu marzu article. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 14:46, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

So ill revert it back,then and change it

Because those are actual contributions to the article. I realy am puzzled by your atitude. New Babylon 2 (talk) 22:44, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

AND-what kind of an atitude is it to delete actual information,just because theres an error,rathen then corecting it,if it doesnt suit your preferences?Also, what erros were there in this sentence again ".He and Flem both have a secret crush on Cow,going as far as imagining to both marry her at the same time (an alternative even proposed by Chicken once)" ? --New Babylon 2 (talk) 22:47, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I dont realy want to sound angry,or anything,nor did I try to insult you or anything,id just like to know what was the error which made you revert the article,thats all,because I didnt see one.Also,I removed "Also like Dad, she seems to be insane; even her wild laugh makes her sound crazy.",because its kind of iffy."advis ehtat " was a slight error. --New Babylon 2 (talk) 22:52, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

N.B. Other half of this exchange.ℜob C. alias ᴀʟᴀʀoʙ 15:03, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Cappella Coloniensis

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A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Cappella Coloniensis, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised because, even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. Scott MacDonald (talk) 23:41, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

The prod (which has been removed by another editor) seems to be based on the assumption that "West German Radio" was a generic term rather than the name of a state broadcaster. However I take this as a reminder to add to this article, as I've meant to do. — ℜob C. alias ᴀʟᴀʀoʙ 19:49, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Hey y'all!

We're going to be having our first Mississippi meetup next month, and I would love it if you'd like to come out! A few of us will be staying overnight, so if you feel up to it, we could have a meet and greet that night and then breakfast the next morning and talk about Wikipedia and everyone's areas of expertise. Let's show 'em how it's done Southern-style! Mike H. Fierce! 21:53, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

I invited people from AL and LA too because I figured it would still be easy for them to come, especially with it being a hotel and casino, since Imperial Palace's rates are ridiculously cheap even for a casino town (like $50 a night). Mike H. Fierce! 19:26, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


Being an Indian of Muskogee descent as well as of several other tribes, I have common knowledge of the meaning. One may also find several Muskogee dictionaries on-line. Respectfully, Tim, aka: Lil-Pidge —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lil-Pidge (talkcontribs) 01:28, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Zheng He

Please undo your own revert. "The Hui people (Chinese: 回族; pinyin: Huízú, Xiao'erjing: حُوِ ذَو ) are a Chinese ethnic group, typically distinguished by their practice of Islam. " DOR (HK) (talk) 06:35, 18 December 2008 (UTC)


Hello AlaRob, this is I.Khider, someone working on the Muslimgauze wikipedia entry. I noticed you snipped a contribution I made. The entry overall is a work in progress. The research behind my claim is verified--do you want me to source the article Bryn read for his dedication in Zul'm, or do you not believe he gained his research information from media and library sources? Which would you like me to source and what sort of source verification do you think prudent? —Preceding unsigned comment added by I. Khider (talkcontribs) 01:14, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

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