User talk:Amerique/Archive 3

Alberto Fujimori

Thanks for your reply on my talk page. I'm a little busy with college-related issues right now, but I be more than glad to hear any sugestion or ideas. My only objective is to prevent "political agendas" and the use of "wikipedia for commercial purposes". Thanks! Messhermit 13:26, 12 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, would it be ok if we worked on the Alberto Fujimori mediation together? Addhoc 21:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Here is some of the most controvertial editions of Bdean1963:

the Tshirts: As you can see, [1] that was the first thing that he added as soon as he started to politisize the article. I reverted that edition here [2].

Ok, I think you did the right thing here.--Amerique 20:52, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Self-Promoting his book: As you can see, the author of this source [3] is someone called "Dean, Bartholomew". As far as I know, Wikipedia is not a place to self-promoting your own works, and I believe that also violates an important rule here in Wikipedia.

Naw, there is no special prohibition against it. See Wikipedia:Reliable_sources#Self-published_sources--Amerique 20:52, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Quoting from Wikipedia: For that reason, self-published books, personal websites, and blogs are largely not acceptable as sources.. Messhermit 00:11, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Anti-Fujimori Agenda: calling Fujimori a "Dictator" [4][5], Stating that Fujimori and Milosevic are the same (which is impossible, both are different times and political situations), deleting information that is somehow positive to Fujimori [6], and editing with no sources and later asking for what he does not like [7].

Ok, this is where the NPOV conflict comes into play. We will further discuss these issues in mediation.--Amerique 20:52, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I hope this can clarify some points. Thanks. Messhermit 23:27, 12 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should try to spare the Fujimori's talk page of that fate. It has already experienced too many POV battles and I think is growing larger with no reason. Maybe a new article that can be later linked to the talk page? Messhermit 14:17, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea, I've set up a mediation page at Talk:Alberto Fujimori/Mediation. Addhoc 15:07, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

BTW Amerique, are you currently advocating for Messhermit? Addhoc 18:16, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't believe that Wikipedia should be a place were anybody can self-promote its own publications. At least in Wikipedia Spanish they have severe implications to do that. I'll try to find out information regarding this issue, but I believe that the same must be used here; after all it's all about being impartial, not about describing one's personal POV. That book is ovbiously not going to contradict the editions of Bdean1963; after all, he write it himself. Messhermit 22:41, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The only problem that I believe will hamper my research is the fact that it's far more easy to find negative information about a politician. If you read closely, the previous disputes have orbited around that fact.
Another issue is that some of the sources that the article has are usually from leftlist and non-peruvian sources. Some are Think-tanks, with their own politicla agenda [8], A student's own research[9], one internet blog [10], and "Human Right Organization" [11]][12] with their own political agenda and most of the time, financed by political think tanks.
There was also an attempt made for another user to censor my ideas [13] just because I was a new user here in Wikipedia, with other users giving me support and stating that "Its easy to notice bias, regardless of ones familiarity w a subject. What I read on Fujimori was POV hackjob. That sort oif slander serves no one."

I'll be waiting for your reply. Thank you. Messhermit 00:08, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your concern. I must say that I have respected that ban as with any other decision that involves my person here in Wikipedia. The whole dispute in the Peruvian Ecuadorian articles was more of a Flame War/Personal dispute between me and the other user. Ironically, even if it was based on a dispute regarding the neutrality of the articles, it degenerated in to that. If you read carefully, that person is also placed in probation, due to the fact that he made the same mistakes that I made. I got the worst part because (once again, because of college related issues) I exposed my personal statements 1 or 2 weeks after. Messhermit 01:55, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I must say that I have not edited anything on those articles nor plan to do anything with them until my probation expire. Ironically, I encounter the same user in another history-military forum where we (so far) have maintained a level of mutual respect. I am a person that learns from his mistakes, and my request for mediation for this dispute with Bdean1963 proves that I prefer to avoid taking this to a personal level. I have nothing against Bdean1963; his anti-Fujimori political agenda is that only thing that disturbs me. Thanks for giving me the chance to explain that embarrassing episode. Messhermit 01:47, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I know that Fujimori, as any other politician in the world, made mistakes. I am totally aware of that and I do not live thinking that he was flawless. But the problem is that Bdean1963 "sugarcoats" most of the arguments that he uses against Fujimori to make him look even worst. That is not ethical, and by doing that he is trying to guide the reader to agree with him. That is, appealing more to emotions rather than facts. Messhermit 02:09, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Following this principle, I can tell you the following things regarding his "concern" with indigenous populations in the Peruvian Jungles: Those places, unfortunately, have never received any type of government assistance in decades, not only during the Fujimori years. It is sad, but I can tell you that at least the 3 presidents that preceded Fujimori did not spend a dime on them, due to the fact that since the late 70's Peru suffered from Marxist Terrorism and Economic recession. Obviously, he avoids to mention this on his work, attempting at the same time to blame for all this type of problems on Fujimori. Messhermit 02:09, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also, don't you find strange that Bdean1963 labeled everything that is "positive" to Fujimori as "lacking of sources"? What you say regarding that Wikipedia should not focus on positive-stuff articles, the same can be said regarding the negative side. The article then, as it is, focuses more on his mistakes rather than giving a fair and impartial description of his government. Messhermit 02:09, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I received an E-mail from Bdean1963. I find it rather disturbing, due to the language that he uses and because he is not clear on what he is trying to say. I believe that is quite clear: he is trying to bully me. Do you have an e-mail account? In that way, I can show you what he writes. Messhermit 02:51, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As explained before, I am more than willing to work with the mediation. However, I was just letting you know about this incident, since I found it out-of-context and definitely against the policy of "Assume Good Faith" by part of Bdean1963. I am enrolled full time in College, I work part time and; if you look at my contributions at this point; they only involve rv vandalism to the articles that I have in my watch list and minor modifications to others. So technically I am in some sort of Wikibreak :) . I appreciate your concern, and once again I have no intentions of creating a flame war here in wikipedia... but that does not mean that Bdean1963 has the right to impose me one. I have restrained myself from issuing any type of reply to him. Thank you Messhermit 16:28, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I got banned. I believe that you are my only witness that can prove that I avoided being controvertial even after Bdean1963 bullied me. This is really depresing, because I feel that for doing the right thing, I am getting punished. Anything that you can say? I would like to know your opinion Messhermit 23:38, 16 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Then what is gonna happen with the article? Now Bdean1963 can sell all the t-shirts and express his POV all the time. Messhermit 00:07, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I just talked with the Administrator that banned me. He said this:

You certainly were not vandalising the article, and you may continue with mediation and discussion on the talk page. You are only banned from editing the article itself. --Tony Sidaway 00:23, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Do you think that we can go on? I simply will not edit the article and leave everything to someone to carry the appropiate editions. Messhermit 00:30, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your concern. I really appreciate all the effort and personal time that you took from yourself in order to give me a hand in this debate. I have already written to all the persons involved in the mediation (with the sole exception of Bdean) and keep pushing to have this to solve. The Administrator who blocked me personally stated that my work was not vandalism, and it was the way that I handled this whole issue that only cause for the ban. Anyways, I will keep doing my personal research to find information that will balance the article and push for having Bdean's POV out of the article. Messhermit 03:15, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I must say that in the case of Bdean, I am not interested in keeping in touch with him. A PhD does not make him more intelligent than me (or you), and I don't feel that because he "is" from Harvard, makes him more right in this types of disputes. He lost the little of credibility that he had (at least with me) with the “T-shirt issue” and the fact that he e-mailed me 3 times only to promote spam and treats. Messhermit 03:15, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Anyways, Thank you for your time and hope that you have some nice vacations!. I hope that we can work together some other time. Messhermit 03:15, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

MedCab case Alberto Fujimori edits

Hello Amerique, in the context of Messhermit being banned from editing the Alberto Fujimori article, I do intend to continue my involvement in the mediation process. Many thanks for all of your assistance and keen insight, User:Bdean1963, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm taking a short Wikibreak. I will not respond to comments like the one above. I'm also withdrawing my support to the Mediation case. Once again, Thank you for responding to my comments and I hope that we can work together some other time. Messhermit 19:03, 19 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Your VandalProof Application

Dear Amerique,

Thank you for applying for VandalProof! (VP). As you may know, VP is a very powerful program, and in fact the just released 1.3 version has even more power. Because of this we must uphold strict protocols before approving a new applicant. Regretfully, I have chosen to decline your application at this time. The reason for this is that lack of mainspace edits. Please note it is nothing personal by any means, and we certainly welcome you to apply again soon. Thank you for your interest in VandalProof. Computerjoe 's talk 15:02, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We generally say 250. Computerjoe 's talk 07:15, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome to the CVU

Welcome to the Counter-Vandalism Unit Amerique! Æon ^{Insanity Now!}_EA! 15:32, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi

Hi, would you clarify if you are currently acting in the capacity of advocate regarding the Alberto Fujimori article? Addhoc 12:45, 24 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mahawiki

Hi dear Admin,

This is to bring to your notice the wiki-feud I've been having with User:Mahawiki for almost one month now. It started with the Belgaum page which went to mediation, warnings were handed out to both parties, and when Mahawiki's incivil ways continued, Admin:Bluyugen handed him a warning and then a block. Find that [14].

I do not want to turn the clock back and go through all those content disputes again. Infact, I dont want to present to you the details of any content dispute we've had. All I want to present to you is the brazen incivility and personal attacks being committed by User:Mahawiki either in the course of his content disputes or even simply just out of spite.

All the diffs(exhibiting his incivility and personal attacks) I provide below are from AFTER, I REPEAT, "AFTER". ADMIN BLUGYUEN INTERVENED, WARNED ALL OF US, AND HANDED MAHAWIKI A BLOCK.

Please find below dozens of instances of blatant incivility and personal attacks by User:Mahawiki either on me or on User:Dineshkannambadi and all Kannadigas in general. His remarks are in extremely bad taste and counterproductive resulting in undermining of the good faith efforts of the other editors to carry on editing their articles.

While I dont want to go into each and every diff and explain it, just to give you a sample of his incivility, he has made edits where, even if only in jest or sarcasm, he makes atrocious claims like, I am on a kill Mahawiki mission, that User:Dineshkannambadi is the Kannada (Bin) Laden(sic). In another edit, even if only for jest(which I certainly dont find amusing nor appreciate esp., when it comes from him), he has threatened to sue me. He has called us cultural TERRORISTS, losers, notorious, shameless etc., etc. He uses the word vandalism like one would use 'Hi' and 'Hello'.

Find all the above and much much much more in the diffs I've provided below. Whats worse is his antics are going unchecked because Admin:Blugyen who knows about our feud is on a wikibreak and Admin:Sundar whose intervention I've sought more than once, is busy with other things(I presume, in real life) - which ofcourse, I dont hold against either of them.

But wikipedia will be a poorer place if brazen incivility like this goes unchecked for weeks simply because many admins dont know about it or the ones who know are by force of circumstances, too busy to deal with it.

I request immediate and harsh action on Mahawiki.

Once again, let me remind everyone that in the links below, none of them pertain to any content disputes. I belive in dealing with the content disputes on the relevant talk pages and dont usually bring it out on user talk pages.

Infact, I have even not listed below, the atrocious claim he made a couple of days ago that I had deleted and later undeleted an article. Also not listed below is his blatant removal of {{fact}} tags I had added in a couple of articles without even clarifying or providing a citation for the claim which I had tagged. Also not listed below may be umpteen other instances of incivility and npa violations on his part that I might have missed.

All the diffs below deal purely and only with his brazen incivil comments and personal attacks not just on me, but on User:Dineshkannambadi and also highly respected historians like Mr. Suryanath Kamath et al(who have been cited in some articles by Dinesh) whom he has trashed and dismissed in the most uncivil manner possible.

Apart from this he also makes disparaging remarks on Karnataka and Karnataka politicians who he keeps claiming are oppressing and torturing Marathi speaking people in Belgaum. This is not a content dispute, this is plain nonsense and insanely belligerent language.

His incivility apart, he has made it a habit and a routine to go around all over wikipedia branding me and Dinesh as 'Kannadi' vandals bent on Kannadizing all articles we touch. Ask him if we have included any uncited material or if we has ever cited any references for his numerous claims or whether he has taken it up on the article talk page instead of on a random user talk page. His answer will be negative. And yet, that doesnt stop him from going around shouting that we have been vandalising articles!!

Anway, I dont want to veer this towards the 'content disputes' which is a whole different matter altogether. Content disputes can always be discussed and agreements reached. Let me present to you just his brazen incivility and personal attacks.

Here we go -

[15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] [26] [27] [28] [29] [30] [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37] [38] [39] [40] [41] [42] [43] [44] [45] [46] [47] [48] [49] [50] [51]

Sarvagnya 22:26, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Highlander

Hey, long time no talk, hope you're doing well. I see you've gotten yourself involved with a number of Wiki groups, always a good thing. Anyway, I just wanted to stop by and let you know that the Highlander has published their story on the UCR Wiki article. I'm a little busy at the moment with school and what not, but when I have some free time, I can go ahead and type up its contents for you here or in an e-mail as I've managed to procure a copy for myself. Regards. --WHS Talk 07:42, 7 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry to butt in but could I get/be sent a copy of this article, too? I exhanged several e-mails with the student reporter who was working on the article and I'm curious to see how it came out. --ElKevbo 00:47, 8 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]