User talk:Anabelle Hidalgo

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16:01, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

March 2024

Drala Mountain Center is a page for relevant information to Drala Mountain Center, and not a full history of Shambhala International or Shambhala Training and the controversies within, unless specifically relating to Drala Mountain Center. So far I have seen no verifiable sources stating any history of abuse at Drala Mountain Center other than a Larimer County investigation, which was closed with no charges filed. If you would like to catalogue the history of the controversy, you are welcome to edit the Shambhala Training or pages that are more specific to the issue. Your claims of an employee being sexually assaulted and then fired a month ago, while serious, are uncited and require verifiable secondary sources before they can be added to this page.

You also may not remove verified secondary citations and statements simply because they do not support your view. Wikipedia strives to be neutral and unbiased.

If this dispute escalates I would be happy to bring it to a moderator for resolution.

Please read WP:5, WP:NPOVHOW and WP:V.

I noticed that you recently removed content without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox.

Wikipedia is written by people who have a wide diversity of opinions, but we try hard to make sure articles have a neutral point of view. Your recent edit seemed less than neutral and has been removed.

If you think this was a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you.

Moshitan (talk) 04:41, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I also have problems with your introduction of the history of Shambhala International into the article and giving it undue weight. These details belong in the affore-mentioned article and should not be added into multiple related articles except using section {{see also}} links. since Drala is no longer part of that organization, its history is undue here. Since you have two editors opposing your changes, you must now discuss on the talk page and gain consensus for your changes rather than edit war to your preferred content, per WP:BRD. (Note: I am not affiliated with either organization). Skyerise (talk) 10:10, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Skyerise. I am new to the processes of Wikipedia, so I am just now seeing all of these notes. I am happy to engage in a process of moderation. Here is some information which might be useful: the organization that is currently called Drala Mountain Center has a long history of name changes: it has been known as Rocky Mountain Dharma Center, Rocky Mountain Shambhala Center, Shambhala Mountain Center, and now recently Drala Mountain Center. Through all of those changes, much about the organization has stayed the same: the same groups of leaders on the board of directors, for example, and the function of the center as once of a handful of "land centers" around the globe where people can receive Shambhala Training. The center recently went though legal and financial trouble due to the crisis of Shambhala International as a whole, and that crisis is what led to the new name and new legal restrictions. However, the history of the place in its entirety is important to understanding the institution. It is understandable that the organization wants to rebrand itself, but events that occurred as recently as 4 years ago, while the center was still a member of Shambhala International, are still relevant to the history, current makeup, and current purpose of the organization. One of the other editors wrote "since Drala is no longer part of that organization, its history is undue here." If that were true, than by the same principle the Wikipedia entry for the country of Ukraine should have all of it's history prior to 1991 removed.

It has been difficult to keep up with Moshitan, because they make edits that include removing large chunks of text, much of which contains relevant history that is accurately sourced by credibel third party sources (such as the NYT, the LA Time, and three local Colorado papers.

Concerning their complaint that Drala Mountain Center didn't have anything to do with the Clergy Sexual Misconduct recent controversy, I have sources to back up the substance of it's involvement and can provide them. They are among the references that Moshitan repeatedly removes from the page. Here are a few (I'm on my lunch break, and can add more later when I hav more time):

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/07/10/shambhala-mountain-center-apologizes-misconduct/

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/07/07/shambhala-sexual-abuse/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAyO0detH5k Anabelle Hidalgo (talk) 19:30, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a timeline of the history:

Rocky Mountain Dharma Center: founded in the 1970's as part of Chogyam Trungpa's organization

Name changed to Rocky Mountain Shambhala Center: sometime in the 90's when Chogyam Trunpa's son took over the organization, with the same purpose as it held since it's inception, to present the teachings of Chogyam Trungpa's lineage of Sakyongs.

Name changes to Shambhala Mountain Center: in 2000, as it was officially incorporated as a non profit

Name changes to Drala Mountain Center: in 2021, as part of a legal agreement with the Sakyong Potrang. However, the Sakyong Potrang still owns and controls the land upon which and around which the Stupa rests.

As you can see, to omit that history, and include only the past 3 years, would be to tell a story that so partial as to be substantially distorted. Anabelle Hidalgo (talk) 19:38, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please use the article talk page for content discussion. I've already shown there that Trungpa's organization, Vajradhatu, split into two separate organizations, Shambhala International and Shambhala Mountain Center, in February of 2000. Both were overseen by Sakyong Potrang, but they were separately incorporated and had separate administrative hierarchies, etc. Pre-2000, it was all Vajradhatu, and that's where the pre-2000 history belongs. To avoid duplication of material, I'd suggest creating a sidebar nav template to ease navigation through the whole history. Skyerise (talk) 19:43, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The first article you linked was actually removed by yourself in 2022 - it was cited years earlier by an anonymous user. You are right that it is relevant to Shambhala Mountain Center however, and it could be added to the sources surrounding SMC's response to the allegations against the Sakyong. As Skyerise said, this discussion can continue on the article talk page. Moshitan (talk) 19:55, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry, I don't know how to access the talk page for the DMC page, but I will try to figure that out now and will respond to you there. Anabelle Hidalgo (talk) 20:18, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your recent editing history at Drala Mountain Center shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war; read about how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Moshitan (talk) 18:32, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]