User talk:Antandrus/Archive1

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Please do not leave me new messages here; I may never see them.

Messages from my start on Wikipedia until the end of October 2004[edit]

Hi there. Welcome to Wikipedia. Thanks for your note at Wikipedia:New user log.

I'm sure there are plenty of things you can contribute to here. You might want to check out List of classical music composers, List of musical topics, and Wikipedia:Requested articles/music. The last one, especially, has a lot of suggestions for articles that don't exist yet, but that someone would like to see.

Here are some links you might find useful:

You should also feel free to drop me a question on my talk page. I'll answer if I'm here.

Happy editing, Isomorphic 18:23, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

You might want to add Luzzasco Luzzaschi to the appropriate section on Madrigal (music). I would but I'm not sure which heading to put him under ( I'm not a historian of music on even an amateur basis.) Isomorphic 01:51, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion. I think Luzzaschi is about number 15 or so in overall importance in the late Renaissance as a madrigalist so I'll leave him off for now... unless someone decides to list most of the madrigalists, not just the four or five most important.

Vincenzo Galilei[edit]

Very nice article. And the Did you know... entry it made was perfect, just the right flavor of trivia there :) Fredrik 21:23, 29 May 2004 (UTC)

Hello to you too[edit]

Hi, thanks for the note. I've kept meaning to say how much I appreciate your work here, so here's a good opportunity. The stuff you've been doing on early music is particularly welcome: it's a somewhat under-served area at the moment (no article on Obrecht until you started it!), and not something I know a lot about, so it's great to see somebody who knows what they're talking about working on it :) (By the way, I hope the op. 111 image will be making a reappearance in an article on the piece itself soon... but I've been threatening to write that for months now, so who knows if I ever will...) All the best--Camembert


thanks for your friendly note. Nice to see someone else around here with an interest in classical music. -- Viajero 18:00, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)


Stirling Newberry welcome

Stirling Newberry Re Sonata Form: the way I put it "It is always yesterday on Wiki" or, original or personal work is banned, but there is nothing wrong with making sure that the articles include the full range of opinion and developments that bring the reader to the cusp of where the "state of the art" is. I'm also a great believer in giving people the historical sweep of a subject, and the varying viewpoints on it, so that they are armed to understand the range of POV. The "late 20th Century" still needs to be covered in more detail from the late moderns such as Carter and Berio, as well as the post-moderns. Harder to sort out what is going to be lasting practice and what will be forgotten however.

A new century, and a new music for it, of course, needs to be worked out elsewhere.

Stirling Newberry Thanks for reading the Elgar write up. I am hoping other people will write similar articles. I need to get back to writing on classical music, but right now politics calls. Thought - cyclical form should get a more extensive write up, including examples where themes, cells and melodies are used for resonance, and those where there is a more central structural function.

Opus 33 replies[edit]

Hi Antandrus, Thanks for your comment! Looking over your edits, I notice you're covering a lot of topics that editors without specialist training (e.g., me) would find daunting, or even be unaware of. (Ars subtilior is an example--gotta check that out!) This is a big plus. Cheers, Opus33 02:24, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)


I agree Bluebeard and Salome would make a great double-bill (what a bitch to rehearse though...)! And if in San Francisco then all the better! I saw the Elektra in I think '97 or '98. Saw it on Halloween :). Wish they would do the Halloween shows still, but that tradition seems to have died. I just reworked a lot of the Bluebeard article; have been meaning to write it for a long time but it's great that you took charge. See what you think with my edits. I'll plan to do some more work over the next week. --Chinasaur 05:48, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

By the way, have you seen the Teldec video movie version? Pretty good watching, although the traditional staging gets thrown out the window. --Chinasaur 05:53, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Did you catch the Busoni Doktor Faustus this weekend? Best, Antandrus 06:11, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

No, unfortunately I am out of town for the summer so I missed Faustus. Yeah, I noticed that you had been kind of skirting some of the major issues; I put stuff in, but tried not to be too heavy-handed. The video is unfortunately (in my opinion) overstaged; the original stage directions are very sparse. But it's still worth seeing and the performance is great (acting pretty good too). I think the video is out of print now, so I'll make you a copy when I'm back if you'd like. --Chinasaur 06:17, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)


Hey, how did you know I was working on this already? Anyway, I'm not actually knowledgable on this subject; I just found the reference in your to do list and it sounded interesting so I Googled it. I've been meaning to learn the basic syntax for lilypond and had just installed cygwin, so I decided to try to do a little score thingy to help you out. Do you work with unix/lilypond stuff at all? I'll also upload a midi generated by lilypond, which should allow you to work with the score in sibelius or whatever if you are not a unix person. --Chinasaur 21:15, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Greetings again[edit]

I've ben away and am back to editing. Which GIS company do you work for? I consulted a bit for one about a year ago...


You are absolutely correct. Thanks. Hyacinth 04:23, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Cantus in Memory of BB[edit]

I beefed up your article on cantus.

Hi Antandrus. Yes I love Part, and I am a Buddhist. The stuff I've wrietten is from a longer essay where I analyse Cantus from a Buddhist perspective. I he's hit upon some very deep "truth" in the universe in Cantus, there is something universal about his response to Britten's death. I've listened to the piece 100's of times now and studied the score as well, and it still sounds fantastic! There's a performance later this year in my town (Cambridge, UK) which I hope to go to as it will be the first time I've heard it live, and the orchestra are usually very good (Britten Sinfonia). I always wondered whether Britten had any influence over Parts music, but I'm less familar with Britten and listening to Part I don't seem to hear any similarities. Maybe it was a "vibe" thing? My workl usually requires a bit of copy editing - I'm not so much sloppy as grammatically challenged :-) Cheers mahābāla 08:15, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC) (aka Michael)

Dmytro Bortniansky[edit]

I see that you beefed up the article on Bortniansky. I am somewhat excited that anyone added some real content to it. I have noticed a real lack of content on Ukrainian composers, so I am hoping to beef this up over time. I hope to run into more of your work and/or more edits of things I start. --JamesTeterenko 07:36, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Violin--Belknap Method[edit]

Hi Antandrus, glad you spotted that ad in String quartet. Since you're attuned to this problem, I wonder if you could take a look at the discussion of the "Belknap method" in Violin and tell me what you think. A Google search of "Belknap method" yielded nothing other than copies of the Wikipedia Violin article. I smell commercial exploitation but it's not so blatant that I feel I could revert without consulting others first. Thanks very much, Opus33 17:01, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

<Antandrus takes forthright but tactful action...>

Looks good to me! Opus33 15:41, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)


Thanks for commenting on my talk!

Doctorandus has been made officially equivalent to a masters degree these days. (I should know, I'm going for a doctorandus title ;-) )

Haven't looked up an official source that says that though, so didn't add that in yet.

Have fun! Kim Bruning 23:59, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Richard Strauss[edit]

I just wonder who put Richard Strauss on that list, it was just an evil thing to do. Not to mention how wrong it was. GeneralPatton 16:31, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I have to thank you on the great work improving the article, thanks! GeneralPatton 16:00, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Lowell Mason[edit]

Thanks, Antandrus. I sort of like Lowell Mason's stuff, actually, especially if the recent rumor is true that "Joy to the World" is by him and not by Handel. Cheers, Opus33 15:07, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Melisende Psalter[edit]

Hi! Nope, no musical notation - it wasn't meant to be used in a mass, it was just a personal prayer book so the psalms weren't set to music. Adam Bishop 05:44, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Musical set theory[edit]

Thanks, you might like Density 21.5 and Interval (music)#Interval_cycles. Happy edits. Hyacinth 02:37, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)


Hi, Antandrus. I replied to you on my talk page. The gist of my reply is that

  1. I think the main article for this genre should be "Plainsong," and
  2. I'm a newbie at this subject; you give me far too much credit :-) --Ardonik 20:35, Aug 8, 2004 (UTC)


Thanks for the vote of confidence on Musical interpretation Stirling Newberry 02:00, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)

You're welcome! Should be a fun article to write. Keep up the good work. Antandrus 03:12, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I've been spending less time wiking and more time composing.

Holocaust denial[edit]

Hi Antandrus My comment wasn't directed specifically at you, I hope you didn't take it as criticism. It was really directed at the Holocaust Denier. Jayjg 03:57, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Your help in battling this moron (no, not Jayjg) is warmly appreciated. If he returns, please leave a note on my talk page or send me an email; I will ban him if he carries on with his garbage-peddling. JFW | T@lk 15:04, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Renaissance in England[edit]

Antandrus, thanks so much for your note! I'm pretty much done editing for now -- anything more would take some research on my end, and I'm swamped right now. I'd be fascinated to learn more about the music (I like Byrd, and have heard of Tallis, and that's it for my knowledge), and I think it would beef the article up nicely. Then I or one of the other literature geeks around here can get a bit more about the playwrights/essayists/poets and we'll be in good shape. :-) Thanks for your note, and please, edit to your heart's content! I'll be reading it with interest. Good luck, Jwrosenzweig 21:06, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)


Thanks for the hints, Antandrus. I don't know those songs, and I'll check them out! Opus33 18:58, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)


Thank you very much for your support during my recent run for adminship. I appreciated it very much. If you would like to talk sometime, please drop me a note on my talk page or email me. Mike H 23:57, Sep 9, 2004 (UTC)

French/German music[edit]

Thanks for the support! As far as non-recent music goes in such articles, I have only ad hoc opinions. I suppose each country is unique, and the articles should each give as much info as is necessary to understand the music of today in each country... but that is a complicated solution. In any case, my usual position in such issues is to add information to the main article until it bursts, and then a logical and informative method of dividing into sub-articles is usually apparent... Anyway, any help you could give would be most appreciated. Especially at music of Germany, I have exhausted the only print resource I have access to, and every single scrap of info I can find with google, and have still found relatively little -- contribute anything you can. Please don't worry about translation issues or anything else (I don't know if English is your first language, or not, or where you are from) -- if you add info, I promise to incorporate it one way or another! Happy editing. Tuf-Kat 06:44, Sep 12, 2004 (UTC)


Thanks for your support and kind words re: my adminship. Jayjg 18:51, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)


Oh my gosh, what a gorgeous picture! I've driven past the Channel a couple times on vacation and it's certainly a memorable view--worth saving from oil spills, no? All best, Opus33 04:15, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)


Thanks for the birthday wishes. RickK 20:22, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)

Popular culture[edit]

Re. "Never edit any articles on popular culture. They're horribly overrepresented. You like them? You do them." Gee, you might not make friends this way, but I admire your forthrightness. I often find works of popular culture to be bleak and life-denying, so I see where you're coming from.

I once put into popular culture that claim that it's good that the Wikipedia has all this popular culture stuff in it, because we'll understand the people of the 21st century better if we document their cultural detritus with care. Sort of like a biologist carefully dissecting an intestinal parasite--there's things we ought to know for scientific purposes, even if the research task is unpleasant. Nice Ravenscroft, b.t.w.. Cheers, Opus33 23:19, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)

<Antandrus replied on Opus33's user page, then>

Hi Antandrus, thanks for your message. I can't compare Sibelius to Finale because I've never used Finale. Sibelius is very impressive and follows an approach I respect (there's a real manual, written by literate people) but is hard to learn. I had to call product support to figure a couple things out. See Toccata and Fugue in D Minor for a hard case I never did figure out...

I got Sibelius because it seemed to be the next big thing , but probably not worth paying $$$ to switch from Finale if that's working for you. Hope this helps. Opus33


Thanks, Antandrus. Since we have no space limit, we'll have a better music encyclopedia than the Grove at some point, though it might be 50 years from now... Opus33 15:11, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)


Thanks for expanding my Berceuse stub. If you feel so inclined, I invite you to do the same to Barcarolle. Taco Deposit | Talk-o Deposit 04:36, Oct 3, 2004 (UTC)

Reversion of vandalism[edit]

Looking at your history, I'm sure this must have been an oversight on your part, but your supposed "reversion of vandalism" at the article Jew today left the section "Ancient Terminology" saying (I can hardly bring myself to reproduce this, but I will) "'Jew' comes from 'Nigger', but more evolved. Like Wartortle." Probably because everyone trusted your statement that you had reverted vandalism as the last edit, this sat there for over eight hours.

You are more than welcome to delete this message once you've read it, but I thought you'd want to know. -- Jmabel 00:36, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)

You are correct: it was my mistake. Word to the wise, always check what has saved after reverting someone's vandalism. What happened, and what still mystifies me a little, is that someone else attempted the revert as the same time as me, and my revert ended up undoing the other person's revert. Embarrassing: I just hate getting egg on my face ... Argh ... Antandrus 02:44, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Number of edits[edit]

I noticed you just hit 2,000 edits. Congratulations. Is there an easy way to check these things? Jayjg 06:56, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Thanks! Jayjg 03:11, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)


Hi Antandrus, thanks for your message. I'm glad you are watching this article too.

Um, apart from the need to defend it from eccentrics, are you entirely happy with this article? I have feelings of discontent myself.

It seems much more feasible to prepare a good article about, say, Ravenscroft than about Beethoven because in the latter case there are zillions of people who want to get their word in. Even when what they have to say is basically sensible it seems rather like the horde of jostling commuters in Grand Central Station.

Might a strategy that would help be the "general article--dependent articles" model, like they do for country articles? Then the Beethoven article could be short and sober, with the details farmed out to where people could read about it where they want to. Just a thought... Cheers, Opus33 00:39, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Admin nomination[edit]

G'day mate, thanks for your kind words and support of my nomination for admin! - Ta bu shi da yu 03:03, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Hey :) The exploding whale page seems to be pretty popular! Cheers mate - Ta bu shi da yu 03:07, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Eppur si muove[edit]

"(even though I say under my breath, "but it moves!")"

Don't worry, Antandrus, no popes here! I agree with your sentiments--including the ones about not expressing them in an article. Cheers, Opus33 00:17, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)


I want to thank you for the warm welcome. I indeed feel very inclined to stay and help extending the articles on art music. Alas, I have no formal musical training; I hope that a bit of reading on musical theory can help here. I always wanted to gain a deeper understanding of the music I love, e.g. its technical and historical aspects; authoring and co-authoring articles will be a very welcome opportunity do to that. This week I am going to order a few books. I have much to learn yet.

Speaking of editing, is there any place where that "small but dedicated group of 'classical music' editors" gathers for discussion of the whole of articles on art music? The first thing I want to do---provided that I can collect enough material---is to expand the stub on Luigi Dallapiccola (and maybe write something about his "Ulysse"), because I feel that I owe that to him. But I am biased. I'd like to explicetly ask for peer review, when I am done (which will not bee too soon, though).

--- Utis 18:03, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)