User talk:Jack Lester

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Welcome!

Hello, Jack Lester, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! Melchoir (talk) 02:48, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

More greetings and some tips[edit]

Hi, Jack Lester! Let me add my greetings to the words above; it's nice to have you helping out. I see you're working on the KCKN (defunct) page. I don't know much about the article's subject (yet), but it looks interesting.
I'd like to point out a few things which might be helpful to you, if you haven't already figured them out for yourself.
  1. You don't need to sign your edit summaries, either with your name or the four tildes (your're currently doing both). All the information that would provide is in the history (where we'd see your ~~~~JackLester~~~~) anyway. You should use the four tildes when you're adding to a Talk page, as you did at Talk:KCKN (defunct).
  2. You don't need to use the Return key while typing text inside a paragraph, only at the end (to start a new graph). The users' browsers (as well as yours) will reflow the text to suit the available space.
  3. When you add a reference, make sure it has both an opening (<ref>) and closing (</ref>) tag. If you don't close the reference properly, it messes up the page. (It's because of unclosed refs that I came to the KCKN page in the first place, to fix it.
Good luck, and I hope you like it here. JohnFromPinckney (talk) 06:31, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

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KCKN[edit]

(copied from KCKN Pioneers with Modern Country Music in 1957) To Whom It May Concern:

First, I love Wikipedia, but it is the hardest web site to navigate that I have ever worked on!

On 30 October 2009, between 2 and 4 p.m., CDT, USA, I spent several hours composing approximately five paragraphs on the above subtopic to continue building a story on an historic radio station.

At about the time I was ready to end my work for the day, my new text was deleted without explanation before I could formally close it out. Is there an way a "senior editor" could find that material and restore it to the existing portion of the KCKN history already posted? If so, I would appreciate it so that I do not have to re-do it.

Request for advice: Should I compose future paragraphs in the Sandbox and then seek an Editor to connect the new next to the story as I continue? Thank you.

Jack Lester

Hi, and sorry you've had some frustration with Wikipedia.
First, if you have questions like the above, your talk page (here) is a great place to ask. Just put a {{helpme}} tag with your question, and an experienced editor will be along in a while to answer it.
A great place to work on text before putting it in an article is in a subpage of your user page, such as at User:Jack Lester/Sandbox. This will give you much more time to work on it.
Looking at your contributions, I don't see any deleted articles except KCKN Pioneers with Modern Country Music in 1957, which is where you asked the above question. I do see contributions at KCKN (defunct); if that's what you're talking about having restored, you can get a copy yourself. Just go to that article and click on the "history" tab above the article. Browse down through the edit history until you see yours, and you can choose any revisions you'd like to compare. Help:Page history has a lot more information on this. HTH! --Fabrictramp | talk to me 20:41, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

WikEd[edit]

Screenshot of wikEd in action

Hi Jack,

I saw that you mentioned you were dyslexic in your post to the Help Desk. Kudos to you for sticking around – wiki markup is difficult for anyone to make sense of in the beginning.

One thing that might help you is an editing tool called wikEd. WikEd changes the look of the editing box so that it looks something like what you can see in the picture on the right (you can click it to enlarge it). If you'd like to try it, you can click "my preferences" at the top of the page, then click the tab labelled "Gadgets", and check the box for wikEd. You can then just try editing any page to see what you think. If you don't like it, you can disable it the same way you enabled it.

Hope that helps, Adrian J. Hunter(talkcontribs) 13:35, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

About references (a brief tutorial)[edit]

Hello, Jack

I saw that you are having trouble with the references in KCKN (defunct), and I hope I can find some time to help you. I want to do it here on your Talk (discussion) page because such things don't belong in the article itself, nor even on the Talk page for the topic. These tips might help you on any article you work on. However, I am going to concentrate on the KCKN (defunct) article and be very specific.

The numbered list of references at the bottom of that article is generated automatically. Here's how it works: A new article that has no references is just a bunch of paragraphs, with maybe some pictures. If it is long it will have some section headings to break up the text into logical chunks. A heading is made like this:

==Heading text==

This is what we do for the References heading as the first step. We add, at the bottom:

==References==

That gives us a section heading, but no reference list. For that, we add what's called a template. A template is just a computer-geek term to refer to the things on Wikipedia we can enter using special terms in double braces. A programmer has to create code for any special term, so you can't just add, for example {{Lester}} and make something happen. But the creation of a references list is a really useful thing on Wikipedia, so there is a template for it: {{Reflist}}.

Now perhaps you have seen in the KCKN (defunct) article, when you are in edit mode, that the bottom of the article has this:

==References==
{{Reflist}}

You recently added some stuff after that, but I am ignoring that for now. Are you with me so far?

The {{Reflist}} template only gives us a list of the references we have added to the article. If we just type a bunch of text, and never include any reference citations (with <ref></ref>), the references list will be empty.

Fortunately, you have been doing a lot of research on the history of KCKN. I imagine you spending a lot of time in the library, making a lot of notes. And as you worked on the Wikipedia article, you added mentions of the place you got the information. That's why, when we look at the KCKN (defunct) article, outside of edit mode, we see a list of books and publications.

The first publication in that list is 'Trade Publication, "Broadcasting Yearbook"', which is numbered automatically as number 1. It is first in the list because it was the first reference you mentioned in the article. This book was referred to five different times, so there are little letters (a b c d e) after the number 1.

Now, unfortunately, 'Trade Publication, "Broadcasting Yearbook"' is not enough information for people to look up and verify the information you cited. In the case of such a yearbook, I'd want to know what year it was published, who published it, who wrote or compiled it, and exactly what page or pages the information was on. Basically, I need to see the information I'd need to find that book in a library or bookstore, and also to find that exact page, so I can be sure you're not making something up or misinterpreting what was written.

What we (mostly, you) need to do is go through the text of the article and, everywhere you now point to "Broadcasting Yearbook" or "Microfilm of the Kansas City Star", expand the citation to include the missing, necessary information.

Here is a page for Wikipedia editors like you to see what information we need: Big, long article. And here's a summary inside that page: List of citation details.

This will be a lot of work, and will depend on you being able to find the information again. Unless you happened to write down all of the information, like page numbers, and just haven't added it to the article, you will need to head back to the library!

Now, currently, since so many of your references were identicle, the citations are also duplicated inside the article. I am sure this will be confusing to you. I can help you here, and I am willing to, but I need to ask you to wait. I have no more time tonight, but tomorrow (late Sunday) I will try to make time for this.

What I will do is make unique references inside the article for you to fill in with publisher name and city, page numbers, dates, etc. I will make each reference you currently have different. Then you can fill in the info you have. You don't have to worry about citations which are the same; we can clean those up later.

Okay? I hope this is clear enough for you. Don't worry if you still have questions. (And if you do, ask here or at the bottom of my Talk page.)

It can take some time to learn these things, but don't give up! We'll get your article fixed up eventually.

— JohnFromPinckney (talk) 15:32, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

KCKN references from "Clipping file"[edit]

Hello, Jack

I noted your additions to the KCKN (defunct)‎ article. It is great to see that you did the </ref> tags correctly. Nice! JohnFromPinckney , — (continues after insertion below.)

THANK YOU! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jack Lester (talkcontribs) 18:58, 1 January 2010

Now we can concentrate on the content. When you refer to the "Clipping file", I am left to imagine (since I have never been to the Kansas Public Library) a big manila folder stuffed full of news article sliced out of newspapers and magazines. Is this about right? JohnFromPinckney , — (continues after insertion below.)

You are correct! Most big-city libraries kept clipping files because (in the pre-microfilm era) old newspapers were too random and balky to keep in perpetuity. So a trained librarian had the job of deciding what story(ies) in each day's local paper might be of future historic interest. His/her choices were then filed in the manila folders you described and filed either alphabetically or by topic in four drawer vertical files. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jack Lester (talkcontribs) 18:58, 1 January 2010

Do not such clippings have some note attached indicating (as a minimum) what newspaper, what date, and what page they came from? That's the information we still need in addition to the details "Clipping file, "Kansas Room", Kansas Public Library, Kansas City." Can you get that info? JohnFromPinckney , — (continues after insertion below.)

Unfortunately, often the entire page of a publication was not retained. I am a Historian for a county museum and a local history club and find the "chancy" way materials were saved to be frustrating. Older researchers tell me I should be pleased that anything was saved before modern technology -- I AM!
I included the zip code for those interested in following up. Should the street address (625 Minnesota Avenue) and the phone number (913-551-3200) be added, too? A Ms. Georgia Slaughter manages the Kansas Room. This repository has material as far back as 1889. She is friendly and helpful to inquiries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jack Lester (talkcontribs) 18:58, 1 January 2010

Good luck (and a happy new year)! — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 18:03, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

NOTE: Concerning the last section I must re-do, person wanted more information about Ted Cramer's 09-17-07 presentation may contact the A. W. Miller School of Journalism, Kansas State University, Manhattan, Kansas. Email: dmac@ksu.edu. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jack Lester (talkcontribs) 19:30, 1 January 2010
In regards to the Clipping File, you say above that, "often the entire page of a publication was not retained." Okay, I understand that. But we don't need the whole page. What I'm hoping for is any information, possibly scrawled on the clipping by the librarian, like "KCStar, Nov. '35" or "April 7, p.22" or "editorial sec. from Kansan, 1942".
I'd like to make it as easy as possible (that's our job as article writers) for somebody else to get to the clipping you used for whatever detail we're writing about.
By the way, I worked on the article a bit, which included reverting a few of your recent changes. I hope I've done a good job of explaining what I did and my reasons for doing so over at the Talk:KCKN (defunct) page. — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 16:08, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Response to above note dated: 2 January 2010[edit]

Dear JohnFromPinckney:

I think it is time for me to ask that everything for "kckn (defunct" be withdrawn from Wikipedia. I have put over two months into the effort and seem to be getting farther away (instead of closer) to overcoming the justified objections and questions raised. I ask this with neither anger or hard feelings and I will continue to be intrigued by the entire Wikipedia concept. I clearly understand that more accountability is wanted on a submission than I am prepared to offer.

What began as a fun project is now a time consuming burden that is probably of little general reader interest in relation to the hours of work that are going into it. I think I just do not fit in with what is wanted in terms of detail and documentation.

I misjudged the degree of difficult I would encounter. I have a degree in Journalism from the (William Allen White School of Journalism) University of Kansas, wrote professionally (for my living) for 30-years...and have published three books. One of the books sold internationally and made the Harvard University reading list under medical topics.

I have been a regular/daily contributor for an international web site collecting data on skyscrapers. I serve as "Historian" for a county historical society and the Native Sons and Daughters of Greater Kansas City (MO/KS). Maybe one issue is that I have credibility where people actually know me while folks, like yourself, really have not idea who I am when I write something.

Therefore, hopefully, you can understand my frustration and the feeling that it is time to just go away. I was motivated by KCKN Radio because one of my books ("Crystal Sets to Satellite Service: A History of KCKN Radio) was the history of the station and I perceived that it would make a nice feature for Wikipedia after seeing other less notable radio stations already shown on the site.

Thank you for your time and interest. Much good luck in the future.

Jack