User talk:Laveol/2008/April

From Gjorche Petrov talkpage

There is nothing about about someone putting monuments on public property, it is about who they celebrate. He can make a monument of Bulgaria as state for example if he is attached to Bulgaria, or choose neutral figure in Bulgaria. But it is unpropriate to put a monument of someone who is known to be responsible for deaths of Macedonians, especially the death of Gjorce Petrov who is very much respected figure in Republic of Macedonia from that time. It is like making a monument to Ante Pavelic in a Croatian yard in Belgrade, or making monument of Jovan Babunski in Skopje. It is just not wise, it makes the common people furios.

Bulgaria and Greece positions are important, but we are not depended on them. We have an open conflict for a long time on the issues that are undiscussable (the right on nationality and language). The trick is that both Bulgaria and Greece sooner or later will accept the Macedonians as reality, because we are there and we will not move or change in the future. Well Bulgarian and Greece have their conflicts as well and they are mainly about Macedonia. The lesson from the history (the first Balkan wars) is when Macedonia is without national identity, the war between Bulgaria and Greece starts. So the recognition of the Macedonians by Bulgaria and Greece is rather wise move (suddenly the majority of conflicts is solved and you will have a new ally). Macedonians are only irritated by the negatory politics of Bulgaria and Greece, all the Bulgarians and Greeks that come in Republic of Macedonia are always surprised of the good welcome if they don't discuss nationalist politics (most of the investments in Republic of Macedonia are from Bulgaria and (especially from) Greece). (Toci (talk) 00:19, 1 April 2008 (UTC))

You're starting a reaaaally long discussion. Just a few thought and it's off to bed with me. I'll have to repeat our president on the subject - you have to read some more before judging Alexandrov's deeds. After all Georgi Parvanov is an expert on the subject (trust me). What everybody in RoM didn't manage to see is that this is a humans' right violation and it is a most obvious one. Interestingly noone in RoM speaks about all the people killed in let's say Veles in 1945 because of their Bulgariannness. I do have my own thought on the subject. If we speak about the year 1913, form all I've read and distancing from Bulgarian nationalistic rhetoric and sticking only to neutral sources, I say that the majority of the people that lived on the territory of what now is the Republic of Macedonia, did either feel Bulgarian or had a certain rather deep Bulgarian affiliation. Since 1913 those people were persecuted and so on till finally they became a minority. It is my own thought on the subject, I repeat again and what that 1913 majority was, I'm not sure, but it was a majority even if it was a slim one. Oh, and a fact worth knowing - one of the main factors behind the Second Balkan war was the pressure from immigrants from Macedonia that wanted it liberated and' part of Bulgaria. That's not a nationalistic saying, you should just read the memoirs of one of Bulgaria's prime-ministers form the 10s or 20s and you'll get the feeling how strong that pressure was. Estimates give a close to 50% of the capitals population consisted of Macedonian Bulgarians and they wanted their home back.

I know it's hard to accept such a view and I don't want to force you to do it. I am as well-intentioned as you'll get from a Bulgarian who happens to read what you wrote. And I dare say ethnic Macedonians do exist today. It's the simple right of self-determination. The problem comes from the history and minority issues. We don't mind you being what you are, and we don't mind you celebrating heroes that we (and most independent sources) consider Bulgarians. When you start with the monopolization you really piss us off. The same goes for folk songs - why are you the ones that refuse to share? Why can't the heroes, the songs, be mutual? Why not since obviously all these people felt both Bulgarian and Macedonian (whatever that meant)? I don't have time to get to the minority issue which I find laughable (since I have a colleague that's more into that stuff). Cheers and good night.--Laveol ^T 01:14, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

This should probably go on one of you guys' talk page now, but whatever. With the songs, it isn't us, it's you. Maybe not you personally, but you as a group. The "Makedontsi sa chisti Blgari" and the "Makedonskiyat diyalekt" crap is what you people actually believe. "Sharing" the songs means to you they are 100% Bulgarian. And then you try and tell that to us, and to everyone else. Even if the songs are written after the "invention" of the Macedonians in 1945 (as most of you put it), you still call them Bulgarian (Zajdi Zajdi). And no, Zajdi zajdi was not written by Levski or Karavelov. That was Chernei goro. Two different songs that you people confused yourselves over. That is why we don't "share". BalkanFever 12:05, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

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RE: image of SE europe

thankyou i am aware that the image was probably fabricated. I have NOT uploaded anything, and yes i am aware of the 'real' image! .you may be able to help me do you know the copyright on the image we are talking about? PMK1 (talk) 10:19, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Deletion of Pirin Macedonians!

just a few questions why did you feel compelled to delete the article Pirin Macedonians?????

please tell me how it is a point of veiw push??? i did not use one source from ANY macedonian organization claiming that there was eg. 300,000 macedonians in pirin???

it was established that the minority included 5,071 people. it is definately not a point of veiw push.! you cannot just delete articles because you are politically against them.

if anything, the article was pro-bulgarian! PMK1 (talk) 11:24, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

It was what? It was heavily POV as an administrator told you on the talkpage. You can edit the passage that redirects, but only if you can manage some sort of a neutral poiint of view. If you cannot, better not try editing it at all. --Laveol ^T 11:41, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

how can i edit the passage that goes to Pirin Macedonians? and which administrator?PMK1 (talk) 21:28, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Moved from MacedonianBoy's talkpage

I'm moving the discussion here as Macedonianboy seems to like deleting it. --Laveol ^T 18:24, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Why did you remove my comments? --Laveol ^T 17:52, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Because......................................................--MacedonianBoy (talk) 17:53, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Because? --Laveol ^T 18:01, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Read the mail that I have sent to you. If you want to tell me something please feel comfortable to send me an e-mail, but on Wikipedia you can write with me just in very important cases. --MacedonianBoy (talk) 18:10, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I take the tatar part as a personal attack. --Laveol ^T 18:22, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

talk

is it alright if we talk on my page? i have a few issues. PMK1 (talk) 21:34, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Yup - no problem. --Laveol ^T 21:35, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Hello

You should say welcome again just as friend as you have been represented on Wikipedia. Regards--MacedonianBoy (talk) 17:49, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

We need to sort out some issues

we need to sort out issues regarding the Macedonians in Bulgaria page before we end up having an edit war! 1. The parts about the whole thracian and dorbujan languages is ridiculous 2. the parts about the thracian and dobrujan nations is in fact debatable and does it really belong on the page (wikipedia does not even have a page for these topics) 3. The majority of people in pirin/blagoevgrad were NOT forced to declare as macedonians (i know you will find that hard to believe, just do not automatically asume!)

we should debate them here and then change on the page

PMK1 (talk) 09:27, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

It might be hard to believe, but, yes, they were forced. I already proposed to you that we remove all the stuff regarding the past and leave only the current situation. This is the only compromise available since scholars seem to agree on the issue. Do you want more sources? --Laveol ^T 19:24, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Alright here is another neutral source. Should i qoute it five times, and keep pushing the same agenda?

--- ‘An estimated 350,000 Macedonians resided in Bulgaria, although they were not officially recognised as a separate ethnos. Some believed that a total of 1 Million Bulgarian citizens could claim ancestors from the Macedonian region, although only a few thousand retained some form of Macedonian Identity. While most of the population was concentrated in the Pirin region of western Bulgaria, smaller communities reportedly flourished in the cities of Plovdiv, Burgas, Varna, Ruse, Dimitrov, and Kyustendil. – page 235 In the 1956 census, nearly 188,000 Macedonians were registered comprising 2.5 of Bulgaria’s population. However, as tensions increased between Belgrade and Sofia after Tito’s break with Stalin, the Bulgarian government stepped to the forefront of the Anti-yugoslav campaign and revived its claims to Yugoslav Macedonia while eliminating the separate ethnic status of its own Macedonians. Henceforth, Bulgarian patriotism was strenuously propagated and Macedonia was described as merely a geographical region. Residents were required to declare themselves as Bulgarian. While some citizens complained that they had been forced to identify as Macedonians during the 1940’s and 1950’s, others claim they were coerced after 1964 into accepting new internal passports with Bulgarian designation. --- Ethnic politics in Eastern Europe: A Guide to Nationality Policies, Organizations and Parties - By Janusz Bugajski - Published 1995. page-238

now in that source it claims that nearly 1 million people claim ancestry from macedonia. should i post that? It claims an estimated 350,000 macedonians resided in bulgaria, should i post that? If i did it would be a POV push, you are doing a similar thing! it also says that after 1956 "Residents were required to declare themselves as Bulgarian." now that is opression! not what you have stated, the oppresions stopped in 1958.! So come on, you have to be reasonable. remove the propaganda.PMK1 (talk) 05:56, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

It is good that you changed the article point to be more neutral. The article is taking shape :) PMK1 (talk) 11:14, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

hey laveol regarding the section on macedonians in bulgaria - 'the Skopie government' even though it is written in the source it is should not be posted in that form. And having macedonian governmenrt makes much more sense and for clarification reasons. anyway what is the Skopie government??? it is really unencyclopedic PMK1 (talk) 02:16, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Ummm, it's the same as the Sofia government. I wtote it that way cause the word Macedonia would be repeating. There's no problem to change it, but you're other changes were not adequate so I had to remove it all. --Laveol ^T 09:58, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Well to be gramatically correct it should be Skopje, or Skopijan like how Sofia would become Sofian, and you wouldnt spell sofia like this sofija, just about the grammar, i have also asked futperfect to have a look at the page to prevent us having an edit war (as i wrote in the edit history):)PMK1 (talk)11:30, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Battle of Kleidion

Thank you very much : ) Cheers! --Gligan (talk) 20:22, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

:)

Tell me why you have edit that part about Bulgarian passport? Is it relevant?--MacedonianBoy (talk) 13:33, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Would you like in some near future to answer me this question or not?--MacedonianBoy (talk) 11:06, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Oh, sorry I've missed that question. What Bulgarian passports are you talking about? --Laveol ^T 12:25, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I think that you have edit the section about how many Macedonians from Albania took BG passports (see GoloBrdo and Mala prespa). Can you give just one reason why it is important that section to be written there? --MacedonianBoy (talk) 12:40, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Hey

Hey laveLOL, what is your problem with Dame Gruev? --Raso mk (talk) 10:48, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Why are you mocking with my username?? --Laveol ^T 10:49, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I have a question... What are you doing with Damjan Gruev?--Raso mk (talk) 10:53, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

No, the question is what are you doing. You're making a personal attack and all your edits (besides adding mk interwikis and a spelling mistake) can easily be identified as disruptive, you refuse to discuss your edits as obvious by your talkpage and you disrupt a long standing consensus on an article. And all this after you promised you were not going to edit here cause of your bad English. It makes me think... --Laveol ^T 10:57, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Take it easy wiki fellow. I m additing interwikis, but i can not be quite for some nonsenses and irrelevant edits. regards--Raso mk (talk) 11:06, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Mhm, you show you're full support for MacedonianBoy and edit only articles he has edited (or off course articles I have edited since you like me so much). Radiovce unites you, eh --Laveol ^T 11:23, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry what is that about Radiovce? The sentece does not make sense. Write English properly. --Raso mk (talk) 11:28, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

He-he, but it's not funny - you can do better. --Laveol ^T 11:30, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

RE: source

sorry what source were you refering to? was it the source for the macedonian political parties???PMK1 (talk) 11:51, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm talking about one of your main sources - Everywhere you have put the Greek Helsinki Committee (or rather this pdf) it should be replaced with a real source or removed. --Laveol ^T 11:53, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, why should it be removed it is a legitimate survey conducted by a neutral external organization, Human Rights Watch - Greece Chapter. oh, and with the makedonsko malcinstvo v balgaria, i only planned on using the information for the table statistics. If you have another more neutral source to reference the numbers from, it would be more appropriate as i understand we are trying to use very little if any macedonian or bulgarian sources, correct? Also you have removed the information for "significant places" THIS reference =>>Georgeoff, Peter John (with David Crowe), “National Minorities in Bulgaria, 1919- 1980” in Horak, Stephen, ed., Eastern European National Minorities 1919/1980: A Handbook, (Littleton, Co: Libraries Limited, Inc.). was also deleted? please can you tell me why? Oh, and with the map you havent really made any attempt to remove it before why now? PMK1 (talk) 12:08, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

There are tones of maps that show the ooposite. Since yours is from 1918, I've posted two from the same period. If you don't like them, you can remove all maps. Moreover how is a map from 1918 relevant to the section 1958? And no, the Greek Helsinki committee is not a relevant source for articles about ethnic Macedonians in Bulgaria. As for the other book - it does not mention the current situation - it's concentrated on the pre-80s situation - and it refers to the 1946-1958 censuses and not to the current ones. Therefore it is not valid to source the Current populations of a settlement with sources which refer to its population 30-40-50 years ago. As for the Makedosnko malcinstvo tables - you cannot use part if the source and neglect the other. Are you sticking to it? --Laveol ^T 12:22, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Is that what it has come down to? posting other information so that when i delete it i have to delete the ACTUAL information as well?? thats not very fair nor what wikipedia is aboutPMK1 (talk) 03:54, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I just posted two other maps from the same period. Which one is relevant? And further you've single-handedly promoted that map to at least 5 articles. And further - the map is from 1918 - how is it relevant to the story of a minority dating from 1945?--Laveol ^T 17:43, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Ive promoted it on 5 articles?? which ones? please tell mePMK1 (talk) 00:06, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

What game are you playing - you know you added it to at least five articles. Or you don't remember?--Laveol ^T 00:07, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

omg, i have only ever uploaded it onto Macedonians in Bulgaria, i have not uploaded it on other pages! check the history, i dare you PMK1 (talk) 00:17, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

btw, the kanev reference, is poor i agree (i will make it proper after the reveiw), but it is in relation to the various reports conducted by Chairman of The Bulgarian Helsinki Commitee - Krassimir Kanev (which are quoted in the CEDIME-SE report and on other sources)eg.

Kanev, Krassimir (1995). “Macedonians Outlawed,” War Report, No.35, pp. 45-46 (issue July/August 1995). Kanev, Krassimir (1998a). Chair of the Bulgarian Helsinki Committee, CEDIME Interview at the office of the Bulgarian Helsinki Committee, August 18, 1998. Kanev, Krassimir (1998b). “Konventsiyata za maltsinstvata i zdraviyat smisul” [The Minorities’ Convention and Common Sense], Ethno Reporter, No.1, 1998, (Sofia: International Initiative for Minority Rights). Kanev, Krassimir (1999a). “Zakonodatelstvo i politika kum etnicheskite i religioznite maltsinstva v Bulgaria” [Legislation and Policy Towards Ethnic and Religious Minorities in Bulgaria], in Anna Krasteva (ed.) Communities and Identities in Bulgaria, (Ravena: Editore Longo), in print. Kanev, Krassimir (1999b). CEDIME Interview at the office of the Bulgarian Helsinki Committee, June 22, 1999.

hope i clarified it up for you PMK1 (talk) 00:29, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Mhm - that'll do - that looks proper sourcing. --Laveol ^T 20:47, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I was reading fut perf.'s user page "PMK1 was told here that the maps.blog.com.mk is a fake one" etc, dont worry im not workin in a big anti-bulgarian ring with rasomk and macedoniaboy :)PMK1 (talk) 14:02, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I said that I don't know if there is any connection between the two. There's no evidence for such a thing neither in your contributions, nor elsewhere. I said it cause the map of the Polish professor was first discovered by you. --Laveol ^T 17:56, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Neither we brothers........:)--MacedonianBoy (talk) 14:03, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

MK Wiki

In absence of the majority of administrators, the user you mentioned is trying to impose his own point of view on Macedonian Wiki. Yes, you can call it an admin abuse. --Revizionist (talk) 12:10, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Good morning...

Good morning Laveol, and I hope you had a good night and are a bit more relaxed now. Before we start continuing our discussion about that dialect article, may I suggest to clear the air it might be a good idea for you to apologise for those rather overblown accusations to MacedonianBoy about "lying" about his sources? I haven't yet seen you actually acknowledging that you were wrong linking the dialect map with that earlier issue of a supposed fake, which had to do with an entirely different map. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:53, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I believe you also confused Polish with Hungarian. :) BalkanFever 12:06, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I might as well do it when I receive apologies for the way he called me in the e-mails and on Bg wiki. And I stick to my word that he told at least one lie. He said those e-mails were a fantasy when on my talkpage he left a notice for me to look at my mail. Also when he starts to act a little better towards me - every single of my comments on his talkpage get deleted, he also loves to use phrases like "keep on talking, I'm not going to listen to any of this" whenever there is a serious issue to discuss. To summarize it: he's got an issue with me and just loves to annoy me (of this I'm sure) - it's only my fault that I gave in to his plan. Hmmm, and I had asked him a question - of the two authors of the map, who's the Polish one? Btw thanks for the new map Fut.Perf. - for the work and all. I didn't mean to annoy you, but I was annoyed myself (you already know by whom and why).

To: BalkanFever - which is the Hungarian one? I'm really getting confused now. Oh, and I hope you'll read it here - there's some confusion as to whether Toshe Proeski should be on the List of Ethnic Macedonians. I remember you either removing him (as Aromanian) or adding him back some time ago, but I don't remember which of the two. An annon added him with a comment on Macedonian and I removed all his contribs since the comment was far from acceptable. Take a look. --Laveol ^T 18:22, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

First of all, what I have written there on BG wiki so annoying? Second, you are spreading away BG propaganda and man I just cannot stay calm. Third, if you know little Polish and Macedonian, than you will know that Macedonian uses NJ for the letter Њ /ɲ/ and Polish uses the letter Ń! It is simple isn't it? I am not lier, if you keep talking I will became a real lier :).--MacedonianBoy (talk) 19:44, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Just as a sidenote, the direct source M.B. gave for the map was a joint book by those two authors, Vidoeski and Topolińska, about the contrastive grammar of Polish and Macedonian. Not a topic directly concerned with dialectology, one presumes. However, Vidoeski apparently was the leading native authority in the field of Macedonian dialectology and has a huge lot published in that domain (including a posthumous English-language version on Dialects of Macedonian prefaced by Victor Friedman, the leading Balkan linguist today), so it seems quite clear that it's ultimately his work we are referring to here.

And now, what the heck was that about those mysterious e-mails? I must have missed a few episodes. M.B., do pull yourself together please. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:58, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I am saying exactly the same, one of the authors is Polish but Laveol does not believe it. And I have sent him e mail because of he was telling to the administrators that I should be punished more than 24 hours and in the e mail I have asked him what he hates me and similar things. And on the Bulgarian Wikipedia I have never said offensive BTW this is English Wikipedia.Cheers--MacedonianBoy (talk) 20:06, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Just to show that you did lie [1]- for the sake of truth. You called me tatar in the mail, this is enough. As for the one on bg wiki I wasn't sure what "Why do you piss (I presume this is piss) your ass where you don't belong?". It seems not only me, but one of the admins of the wiki finds this offensive - see the note he left you [2].From all this how do you expect me to trust you or have a good opinion of you? The fact is I don't like being called tatar. --Laveol ^T 20:34, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

IT is not PISS it is PIKAŠ (obviously Macedonian is not Bulgarian, isn't it?) and means do not involve in something that not concerns you. And about that Tatar, I have no comment--MacedonianBoy (talk) 20:43, 15 April 2008 (UTC).

Okay, Macedonian Boy, as a penance apportionate to the intellectual level of he offense, you will write the following sentence ten times in each of the twenty-one dialects of Macedonian: I will not call my fellow Wikipedians Tatars, on or off Wiki.. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:48, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

But how can he proof that I have called him a Tatar? And I really must do that? Cheers --MacedonianBoy (talk) 20:50, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Bah, if you go on wikilawyering about proofs, you are also going to deliver a narrow phonetic transcription in IPA of each of the 210 lines. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:53, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh:

• Нема да ги нарекувам моите другари Википедијанци Татари, на Википедија или надвор од неа! Skopje-Veles dialect
• Нема да ѓи викам мојте другари Википедијанци Татари, на Википедија или надор од неја! Upper Polog dialect (my Tetovo dialect)
• Нема да ги нарекуа моите другари Википедијанци Татари, на Википедија или надвор од неа! Kičevo- Poreče dialect

--MacedonianBoy (talk) 20:59, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

LOL. Which dialect is which? Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:04, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Hahaha, I take it :) --Laveol ^T 21:28, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Hungarian is the language on the map/pseudo-map that you didn't like. With Toše, I concluded a while ago (not on Wiki) that he should be on the list, along with Kaliopi, but never got around to it. Assimilation is fun. Btw, I told you what pikaš meant when I asked you your views on Macedonian on my talk page (it means: to stick/put). MacedonianBoy, you should also read that section. Everyone here knows Macedonian is not Bulgarian. BalkanFever 03:02, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

RE: Mala Prespa and Golo Brdo

hi, you seem pretty active on the page Mala Prespa and Golo Brdo i was planning on re-doing the page to omit the larde focus on the demographics, it is more of a geographic term. And only some information on demographics should be mentioned. Would you be interested in creating an article titled Bulgarians in Albania???? That way the page would be better (as opposed to looking like the mess it is now)!. Please give me your feedback PMK1 (talk) 07:24, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I'll add the info from the current article in it as a start. We had a similiar discussion on the talkpage btw and we thought the same thing. But shouldn't the articles be split then? Cause they are about to different geographical terms. --Laveol ^T 09:39, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

But that doesn't mean that in term of demographics that you mention, it will look like the created by you Macedonians in Albania, does it? And no more removal of the Bulgarian name. --Laveol ^T 10:14, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Don't worry, I'll change the "language(s)" part to "mother language".--144.122.250.139 (talk) 00:59, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Alright, and oh i havent been removing the bulgarian name. And also the Mala Prespa and Golo Brdo actually is reffering to the hinterland in that are, regardless of the inhabitants so it is really more geographical than ethnographical. Yes, if you create the article then i will add the appropriate links to both macedonians and bulgarians in albania.

You have also been very active on Dialects of the Macedonian Language is it acceptable to you that both the Pirin-Malshevo and Ser-Nevrokop-Drama dialects are listed as also bieng considered bulgarian ones?? I think that, that option is a very neutral one. Do you believe that the article's name should be changed?, as it is focusing on the dialects of the macedonian language and not just any dialect in ALL of macedonia. I think that if you found time to create the Dialects of the Bulgarian Language it would be an appropriate match with the identical claim that the Pirin-Malshevo and Ser-Nevrokop-Drama dialects are also considered to be Macedonian dialects. It is more NPOV that way, also if you had any actual information on the dialects it would be of assistance. PMK1 (talk) 04:33, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

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re: removal of the CEDIME-SE source

hi i just wanted to find out why you insist on removing the CEDIME-SE report???PMK1 (talk) 06:24, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Cause it is not a proper source for the article Ethnic Macedonians in Bulgaria. There is a Helsinki Committee in Bulgaria as well, you know. The Greek one is just not relevant - they might mention something about Bulgaria, but they haven't made any research on the situation, cxause they're the Greek Helsinki Committee and therefore operate in Greece only. ANd I don't think it is needed since the census is more than clear. Frankly I think that the Ethnic Macedonians in Sofia are more than those in Blagoevgrad province as of today. I've worked with 5-6 of them (and that's only me) so I guess they're at least 7-8,000. But there's no official data on this and I can only speculate on the real numbers. --Laveol ^T 14:39, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Well often the national comitees work together so they are not completely seperate. Well the only official figures come down to provincial not oblast level so that is a bit speculative. Personally i think that the article is fine and i really think there are other articles more worth doing at the moment PMK1 (talk) 22:49, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, if you think so, I'll just remove the inappropriate sources and you'll have to work it out with others. I asked you more than a week ago to find real sources (or incorporate the full data from those you have cited and not use them only selectively). If you don't do something about this issue till tomorrow I'll remove them. There's no need to have Fut. Perf.'s approval on this one since those sources are simply not valid. --Laveol ^T 20:55, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, first of all i dont spend my whole life on wikipedia editing random minority pages. And two could you please list the innapropriate sources?? PMK1 (talk) 08:28, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

We discussed this a couple of times already. I'll just remove them and you might remember. Well, if you call the article you created on your own a "random minority page" I'll just list it as a speedy. --Laveol ^T 18:20, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Why Threaten to delete it? IS there something you are trying to deny? I wonder what. And ill change the Kanev and other sources when i find time to. And by random minority i mean i have more pressing things to do in the Real World. PMK1 (talk) 02:02, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Великден

Hi Laveol, Isn't Orthodox Easter this Friday-Monday? Честит Великден, AWN AWN2 (talk) 03:57, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Ummm, yeah, the one that's coming. :) Thanks :)--Laveol ^T 08:44, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Translation

What does понамаляхме mean? BalkanFever 08:22, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, we decreased in numbers or something like that. Not a common word really - it's a vrerb with a prefix that makes it kind of... ooo, I don't know. Are you referring to the message I left on that user's talkpage? What's wrong with it? --Laveol ^T 12:52, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Nothing. I don't have any motive, I was just curious. :) BalkanFever 12:55, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

"The Big Excursion" article

I agree that the current content is completely unacceptable, but I don't think that deleting is the way to deal with this problem. Deletion will be seen as an attempt to deny or belittle the event. Perhaps you should first try to improve it first. I would try to do it, but I do not have access to good sources. Kostja (talk) 21:28, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I nominated it as way the creator to turn his attention to it. There's no problem with the tag - a simple removal would save the page. The fact is there are hardly any good sources on the subject. It's a relatively recent event (in history sense) and all sources tend to be too POV. --Laveol ^T 22:38, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

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здр

Христос воскресна пријателе!!! Се надевам дека убаво ќе си поминеш за празниците и малку ќе станеш попријателски настроен кон Македонија и македонците. поздрав и секое добро  :-)--Raso mk (talk) 22:55, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Вуистина воскресе! I've always been friendly to Macedonians so long as they're friendly to me :) --Laveol ^T 13:05, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Award

Laveol is hereby awarded the Saint Cyril and Methodius Order of Merit, for his countless contributions and efforts to maintain the good tone on Bulgaria&Macedonia-related topics. Keep going like that. --Gligan (talk) 14:18, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I think you deserve this for your enormous (and I guess sometimes annoying) work ; ) --Gligan (talk) 14:18, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Воистина воскресе! --Gligan (talk) 14:26, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Turks in Bulgaria

See here. Cheers! --Olahus (talk) 17:34, 28 April 2008 (UTC)