User talk:Marlies van St Annaland

Welcome!

Hello, Marlies van St Annaland, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful:

• Introduction and Getting started
• Contributing to Wikipedia
• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page and How to develop articles
• How to create your first article
• Simplified Manual of Style

You may also want to complete the Wikipedia Adventure, an interactive tour that will help you learn the basics of editing Wikipedia. You can visit the Teahouse to ask questions or seek help.

Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or , and a volunteer should respond shortly. Again, welcome!
 Klaas `Z4␟` V 08:17, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

inline refs

I reverted your edit (Revision as of 2018-10-01T10:29:51). References are usually after the dot at the end of a line.<ref>URL s.d.t</ref>

Greetings & salutations from Osdorp, Klaas `Z4␟` V 11:23, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

Klaas could you help me out here? I do not understand somebody can say I did some internet search and found nothing, and it is insignificant ! there are pages on Wikipedia that are shorter than mine and do not have any source or reference at all. This is clearly somebody who is anti homeschooling and actually is making a statement here, which is not Wikipedia style. the page has been updated, and must stay. It is a big thing, this official day, for tens of millions around the world. Can you suggest what to do? thank you,

Dear Marlies,

There are helpPages available. Read (read: study) them before adding substantial content. You're very brave to write a complete new article on a not so well known subject. That your article on Homeschooling remained unnoticed until someone decided to propose deletion surprised me. Klaas `Z4␟` V 11:24, 3 November 2018 (UTC) P.S. your name sounds Dutch: better publish in w:nl:Internationale Thuisschooldag of zoiets - 'k weet niet hoe die dag in het Nederlands wordt genoemd - heb er zelfs voor jouw artikel nog nooit van gehoord, afgezien van sommige mensen van wie de ouders onderwijzers waren/zijn en derhalve (ook) thuis onderwezen werden/worden -

Dear Klaas, There are tens of millions of families homeschooling, worldwide. The online world of homeschooling is very big. The issue here is that a foundation, the European Homeschooling Foundation, has established the International Homeschooling Day on October 1st. This day is not to be discussed, or ignored in existence. On Wikipedia you finds lots of International Day pages, some even have just a few lines of text and hardly any references. If the word 'insignificant' is used, there is no more independent and objective discussion, it is purely subject to someone's opinion. I think that does not meet Wikipedia guidelines. The page on International Homeschooling Day will grow, more info and sources will be added in the following months, when homeschoolers around the world are starting to prepare activities for this day. --mvsa 07:17, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Better join the discussion @AfD, dear Marlies. Do not be shy, be bold! Hartelijke groeten van je wannabe coach, Klaas `Z4␟` V 10:48, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of International Homeschooling Day

The article International Homeschooling Day has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

No evidence of notability, all sources are just used to support various claims about home schoolers that don't mention the subject. An internet search for the subject returned some blogs but nothing reliable or significant. Does not pass WP:GNG.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 18:53, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Nomination of International Homeschooling Day for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article International Homeschooling Day is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/International Homeschooling Day until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 23:29, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

There is no reason to delete an article on International Homeschooling Day other than subjective reasons, which is against Wikipedia policy as it is striving to be an indepedent source for all. International Homeschooling Day is a day established by the European Homeschooling Foundation (founded 2018). There are tens of millions of homeschoolers around the world, who will celebrate this day. On the page you can find references to other pages on Homeschooling. On Wikipedia you can find International Tea Day, or an https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Cat_Day this page is very short and there is no concern whatsoever this page should be removed. We will ask homeschooling organisations to edit the page and add sources and references. That takes time. Homeschoolers in certain countries have known resistance from the establisment, particularly from the educational field. Moreover, there is no objective reason for anyone to delete a page that informs about an international day established by an organisation. The page on International Homeschooling Day will grow, more info and sources will be added in the following months, when homeschoolers around the world are starting to prepare activities for this day. Marlies --mvsa 07:02, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Quantity does not matter as much as quality and following the guidelines, dear Marlies. Finally a discussion started. Defend your article there, meantime your advised to make a copy in your own namespace and/or locally on your own desk-/lap-/handtop. Klaas `Z4␟` V 10:58, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Managing a conflict of interest

Hello, Marlies van St Annaland. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about in the page International Homeschooling Day, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a COI may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. We ask that you:

• avoid editing or creating articles about yourself, your family, friends, company, organization or competitors;
• propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (see the {{request edit}} template);
• disclose your COI when discussing affected articles (see WP:DISCLOSE);
• avoid linking to your organization's website in other articles (see WP:SPAM);
• do your best to comply with Wikipedia's content policies.

In addition, you must disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution which forms all or part of work for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation (see WP:PAID).

Also please note that editing for the purpose of advertising, publicising, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted. Thank you. SpinningSpark 13:29, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for your concern. There is no conflict of interest, the International Homeschooling Day is an initiative to give homeschoolers from all communities, nationalities around the world a day to share, to unite. There is no commercial interest. The reason the Wikipedia page has been set up is to share info on the International Homeschooling Day in an independent and neutral way as is possible on Wikipedia, to avoid any confict of interest with any other party involved in any way.

The fact that you cannot see why you have a COI is the very reason you should not be editing any connected article. The International Homeschooling Day is a promotion of The European Homeschooling Foundation. You are part of that organisation. Ergo, you have a conflict of interest. The organisation being non-commercial does not change that in any way. Please read the linked guidelines supplied to you above. You clearly haven't so far. SpinningSpark 23:12, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Yes, new to Wikipedia and still learning. The reason I chose to mention the foundation was for it to be 'official'. I could delete the foundation name on the page if that would clarify things. If there would not be an organisation behind the initiative of International Homeschooling Day it would be considered 'insignificant' or not 'official'. The chicken or the egg on Wikipedia.

The reason the article was deleted has nothing to do with the foundation being mentioned in the article. There is nothing wrong with that. It was deleted because it lacks notability by Wikipedia standards. In any case, that has nothing to with your conflict of interest. Please try reading the guidelines other editors have kindly linked for you. You could start with the correct way to sign your talk page posts in the first welcome message right at the top of the page. SpinningSpark 00:07, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

I know you have to sign posts, it was not possible via my phone. So I decided to use Wikipedia only via my laptop, which I do not do on a daily basis. I know about the guidelines. We are new, and we are learning. What would be more helpful though, is not throwing articles on rules and guidelines at us, Wikipedia is quite difficult in its user info, it is quite the labyrinth. All we want to do, is sharing the International Homeschooling Day, that has meaning for so many. Tips on how to share this would help. If it is needed for others to create a Wikipedia account to provide sources and add information, than that is what we will do. mvsa 08:50, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

You are still not listening to what you are being told. You cannot have an article on the day because it is not notable. It does not matter whether it is you or someone else who writes it. The subject will still not be notable however well, or badly, the article is written. You cannot get around that in any way. It would be an especially bad idea to ask your contacts to write something. They will have just as much of a COI as you do. I note that in a post to Klaas below you are still trying to argue there is no conflict because the organisation is nonprofit. This is more of "I didn't hear that". Your association gives you a COI. It is nothing to do with money. Your motivation is to publicise your cause rather than build an encyclopaedia. Any associates of yours will have the same issue. The best you could hope for is a mention on the homeschooling page, but I would strongly recommend that you, or anyone you know, do not add it yourself. Very likely it would be removed as promotion. Any addition you want to make should be made as a suggestion on the article talk page. You can use the template {{Request edit}} which will attract the attention of an editor to service the request. It's definitely not something that would go in the lead or beginning of the article.

I can give you advice on editing Wikipedia on a mobile if you want (the facilities there are not good for editing) but I fear you are not very interested in becoming a Wikipedian. Just ask on my talk page if you want more information. SpinningSpark 14:56, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

14 August

Here is written the homeschooling day you've been talking about was on 14 August 2018... It seems 1 October comes from this site. Is it reliable enough?
Kind regards, Klaas `Z4␟` V 19:55, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Thank you - that is a local day in a community that you refer to.

International Homeschooling Day is initiated by me (as president of the European Homeschooling Foundation) and as a parent.

The celebration of this day by homeschoolers around the world will create a shared history and contribute to a new era of education.

It is very important to have notice of this day on Wikipedia, so people can find it and refer to it, rather than referring to a website.The Wikipedia page is independent.

We will do our utmost to have the page undeleted, since there is no personal interest whatsoever, this day is for tens of millions around the world, to acknowledge their lifestyle and respect their educational choices.

Thank you for your support.

You're welcome. Still remains a Conflict of interest as stated in previous §. In fact anybody could write an article about this day except employees of the company who created it. You're one of them.

I am not an employee. The foundation is a nonprofit and I am one of the founders. It is not a company. There is no financial interest in any way.

By the way:

1. tens of millions seems exaggerated to me, but since you're an expert... ;-)

Well, it is not that I am the expert, it is a fact. The world is quite a big place, and if you do the math, thinking of countries like the US, the UK, Australia, South Africa, Thailand and other big countries around the world, and you take 0,5% to 5% - it adds up.

1. you forgot to sign (and to intend for readability) they didn't teach you these at home?

 Klaas `Z4␟` V 09:49, 17 November 2018 (UTC)