Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Battle of the Coral Sea/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 23:01, 20 June 2009 [1].

Battle of the Coral Sea[edit]

Nominator(s): Cla68 (talk) 20:57, 8 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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I believe this article about one of the arguably most significant and complex naval battles of World War II is ready for consideration for FA status. The article passed an A-class review with WP:MILHIST. Thank you (in no particular order) to Nick-D, Trekphiler, GoldDragon, Maralia, and Jehochman for significant assistance in expanding and polishing the article. Cla68 (talk) 20:57, 8 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comments from Binksternet:
  • Checklinks check out and Dabfinder is happy.
  • Did you want to leave the redlink Cid Harbor in place for some future article or did you want to pipe it with Whitsunday Islands?
  • I changed a handful of hyphen stragglers to endashes in situations where numerical ranges were involved.
  • 'Deboyne' isn't made perfectly clear where it is, and what it is. The first time the word appears in the article it is associated with Jomard Channel, and the second appearance is "Deboyne Island in the Louisiades", where 'Louisiades' is not linked. I'd like to see it made plain at first encounter that Deboyne is a group of little reefs and islands in the Louisiade Archipelago, and that Deboyne in the WWII sense usually refers to the temporary Deboyne Seaplane Base, a shallow lagoon south of Panaeati (Panniet) Island, ringed by the other reefs of the Deboyne group, with Panapompom Island in the middle, the whole base referred to by the Japanese code designator "RXE".
Well, not all of that!... Binksternet (talk) 23:18, 8 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Kenjiro Notomi appears from File:Kenjiro Notomi.jpg to be a squadron commander who quite possibly would not warrant an article of his own. Perhaps better to just remove the wikilink? SGGH ping! 10:24, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Same with the oiler E. J. Henry. Binksternet (talk) 15:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Surprisingly, I can't find anything on the E.J. Henry so I'm going to remove the redlink, along with Notomi's. Cla68 (talk) 20:35, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The phrase "the Covering Group in providing distant cover for the Tulagi invasion" has the root 'cover' appearing twice. Can the second 'cover' be swapped for 'protection' or something? Binksternet (talk) 00:13, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sometimes, a vessel or an aircraft is given anthropomorphic capabilities. A submarine doesn't realize something; an aircraft is unable to send a message. Is this purposeful, or is it better to assign actions or inactions to the crew? Binksternet (talk) 00:27, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I fixed the Cid Harbor link as suggested, clarified the Deboyne reference, and changed the use of the word "cover" [2]. I should be starting stubs for the DD squadron and the Japanese pilot within the next few days. Since the redlinks were in the footnotes I wasn't in a hurry to get them done. I'm aware of the issues with giving anthropomorphic qualities to ships. It's just that it's easier to say "Chitose sighted the incoming US aircraft" than "The crew of Chitose sighted the incoming US aircraft." It seems that the use of the ship name also includes the crew, such as by saying, "Lexington traveled to the South Pacific" when what really happened is that the crew piloted and guided the ship by that name to that location. I appreciate the feedback and helpful inputs for the article. Cla68 (talk) 01:21, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Support I hope I do not repeat any of the above, but if I do I apologise. It is a good article which just needs some tweaking, often very minor points.
    • In the infobox you have commas after each point in the strength sections, but no period at the end before the citation, same with casualties and losses, and the result sections, and location.
    • Perhaps the image captions regarding people, like Flatley, could have expansion to more than the name so a quick peruse and show who they were.
    • "Historians H. P. Willmott, Jonathan Parshall, and Anthony Tully consider" in the Midway section, but the citation reads "Willmott (1982), pp. 459–460; Parshall, pp. 58–59." - no Tully. Is he mentoned by Parshall and/or Willmott? Perhaps a seperate citation would fully seal the deal.
    • In a few cases you have quotations in paragraphs, "a new type of naval warfare" first paragraph is an example, with the citation at the end of the paragraph. I appreciate what you are doing, citing each paragraph to all the sources it uses, but sometimes with quotes I personally would feel more comfortable if an additional cite for that quote is placed immediately after the quotation, just to tie it down.
    • "En route to Truk, however, I-28 was torpedoed and sunk on May 17 with all hands by the U.S. submarine Tautog" perhaps "En route to Truk, however, I-28 was torpedoed on May 17 by the US submarine Tautog and sunk with all hands aboard."? But I guess it can work either way. So many elements to the sentence.
    • Wikilinks do dry up quite quickly after the first couple of section - I have seen in the history that this is trying to be fixed. I also appreciate that you don't want to wikilink something twice, but if there are any to be made, please do.
    • "At noon on May 11, a U.S. Navy PBY on patrol from Nouméa sighted the drifting Neosho ( [show location on an interactive map] 15°35′S 155°36′E / 15.583°S 155.6°E / -15.583; 155.6). The U.S. destroyer Henley responded and rescued 109 Neosho and 14 Sims survivors later that day, then scuttled the tanker with torpedoes.[85]" is a two sentence paragraph in the aftermath section that could perhaps be merged into the one above or below, probably above.
    • As per the talk page, you might want to check up on WP:MOS regarding U.S. or US abbreviations.

All I can think of for now. It is a good article, and I am sure I can return to give support pending a more thorough prose analysis. Though other editors will probably get there before me. SGGH ping! 10:21, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Periods added.
  • More descriptive captions added.
  • Parshall and Tully were coauthors of the book Shattered Sword. I shortened the book citation in the footnote to just "Parshall" instead of "Parshall and Tully", but since both coauthored the book I felt I needed to mention both names in the text since both appear to take credit for the statement.
  • Every quote should have a specific citation. I fixed that one.
  • I changed the sentence as suggested.
  • I don't believe that there are any significant missing wikilinks. I looked at it again.
  • Merged as requested.
  • I believe the abbreviations have been standardized throughout the article by the other two editors. I appreciate the constructive feedback. Cla68 (talk) 21:00, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments -
  • This is utterly unrelated to sources, but I find the little globe icon in the middle of the text distinctly annoying. I realize it's a template, but any way we can lose the annoying icon that breaks up the text (much much worse than footnotes do!)
  • Is the Mason work a journal article? If so, the title of the article goes in quotations marks to avoid confusion with the title of the journal (I'm confused because there are two entities in italics in the reference)
  • Okay, REAL picky here, but for the Cressman ref you go "Missoula, Montana, U.S.A." but for the Morison ref you go "Champaign, Illinois, USA"... and then on the Parshall ref, you go "Dulles, VA". (These are examples, there are others in the refs) Pick one format for the locations and go with it. Either use state abbreviations or don't, either use USA or not, if you use USA decide whether it's U.S.A. or USA. (grins)
Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 13:49, 10 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't know what to do about the globe graphic. I find it annoying also. I think it's useful for readers to be able to link to a satellite-level view of the earth to look at locations referenced but the template is distracting.
  • I removed the Mason source. It isn't necessary because other sources included have the same info. The only reason I had left it in the first place was because the editor who originally added it was perturbed the first time I removed it.
  • You're right that the publishing locations should be standardized. I just did so. Cla68 (talk) 00:53, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Re globe graphic: I was coming here to ask the same question. Perhaps a discussion should be started on the template's talk page? —Ed (Talk • Contribs) 05:01, 12 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Article meets FA standards, in my opinion. Binksternet (talk) 15:44, 10 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This article easily meets the FA criteria - excellent work. I'd also like to highlight that Cla has also created a series of good-quality short articles as part of the process of removing the red links from the article and ensuring that there's a source of further information on topics mentioned in passing. Nick-D (talk) 09:29, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: The notes section seems to take up almost a quarter (at my resolution) of the article... perhaps a bit of effort can combine relevant notes into the prose? Other than that, I Support featuring this article. bahamut0013wordsdeeds 12:11, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: The Geographical links (Coord links) in the article need better meta data; for example many of the coordinate should use type:event and a descriptive title should be added using |name=. The latter is important as it identify those coordinates as being specific points in the article instead of related to the article. If the coordinate is within country it should use region: with the two digit country code. When the dim parameter is implemented you can give the size in meter instead of using scale. — Dispenser 18:52, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could you give an example of what you're describing? Otherwise, I can't understand what you're talking about. Cla68 (talk) 23:15, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The coordinate giving for the site of the sunk Destroyer Kikuzuki {{coord|09|07|S|160|12|E}} should include additional meta information., like so: {{coord|09|07|S|160|12|E|type:landmark_dim:123|name=Destroyer Kikuzuki}}. List of other types at WP:GEO#type:T. Using name=Destroyer Kikuzuki names that particular point, tools will display this name instead of the article title. And when I get around to implementing it you can directly describe the coverage of a battle or size of an object in meters using dim: instead of approximating it with scale:. — Dispenser 13:53, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oh, I understand now. I'll go through and do that to the different coords in the article. Cla68 (talk) 23:28, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Several image concerns:

Other Images are verifiably in the public domain. Jappalang (talk) 11:56, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • I would hope that anyone donating a photo the Naval Historical Center that is posted on the center's Internet page is releasing the photo into the public domain. In case it isn't, I changed the image to one that is clearly copyright free.
  • I added source information.
  • If the Naval Historical Center or National Archives don't attribute an image, we should assume that it's copyrighted? Anyway, I removed the image.
  • Confirmed as public domain. Cla68 (talk) 23:32, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I added the Flatley photo to the article, thank you for uploading it. I also added source information to the YorktownTulagiSBD photo. Cla68 (talk) 11:29, 20 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments: File:KoeiMaruTulagiBombing2.jpg is in public domain... but I think it detracts from the article; it seems to be showing nothing but a splotch. Jappalang (talk) 11:56, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • I changed the image. I appreciate the constructive criticism. Cla68 (talk) 23:32, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support After reading the article, it appears extremely thorough and in my opinion meets the FA criteria. Aaroncrick(Tassie Boy talk) 07:08, 20 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Agreed with above. The article is thorough enough to cover all of the complexeties of the battle. -Ed!(talk) 15:18, 20 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I've been ready to support except for some image concerns, but took too long writing them up and Jappalang beat me to it (and probably did a far more thorough job anyway!). They appear resolved now, and the article is in great shape. Maralia (talk) 15:41, 20 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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