Wikipedia:Peer review/Planet of the Apes/archive1

Planet of the Apes

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This peer review discussion has been closed.

I've listed this article for peer review because I'd like to get it up to featured article status. To my knowledge there aren't any FA-quality articles on film series to use as a guide, so I modeled it after GAs such as Star Wars, Star Trek, and James Bond in film. Cúchullain ^t/c 22:33, 1 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Scribolt Please note that I am not a GA / FA standard reviewer, these are merely some copy editing / prose suggestions for you to think about or just ignore. I've marked some alternatives in my suggestions with /.

Lede

" a world where humans and intelligent apes clash for control " - "a world in which humans and intelligent apes fight for control".
- Done.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:44, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
" Critics have noted Planet of the Apes for its treatment of the theme of race, as well as its Cold War and animal rights themes. The series has had a wide influence on subsequent films, media, and art, as well as popular culture and political discourse." - "The Planet of the Apes has had a wide influence on other films, media, and art, as well as popular culture and political discourse with its treatment of race, animal rights and the Cold War." (Maybe this isn't the ideal replacement, but I don't like the 'Critics have noted' construction at all).
- I'll take another stab at it. I don't really want to combine the sentences, as they summarize different sections of the article. The series' wide influence in arts and pop culture isn't necessarily tied to its racial, Cold War and animal rights themes.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:44, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

La Planète des Singes

Stupid question, but is the first citation the reference for the entire paragraph? Including the wrote in 6 months and the Swift influence?
- Correct. It's a summary of passages from these pages.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:44, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"To explain his interests, Jacobs had told agents, "I wish King Kong hadn't been made so I could make it." - "Jacobs had mentioned to agents that "I wish King Kong hadn't been made so I could make it.
- Done.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:44, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
BTW, I'm so sad that the title Monkey Planet didn't stick :(.
- You're not the only one ;)--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:44, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Original film series - Planet of the Apes

"who had previously written the adaptation of Boulle's novel" - "who had previously adapted Boulle's novel" (also, both of the wikilinks on 'adaptation' and 'Bridge over the River Kwai' link directly to the novel.
- Done, though it appears that the wikilinks are going to the correct places.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:44, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Beneath the Planet of the Apes

"turning the films into a series" - Can you do that? The films weren't turned into anything. "Creating/Starting a series/franchise" maybe?
- Done.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:44, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Conquest of the Planet of the Apes "For Conquest, Thompson and Dehn focused heavily on the racial conflict theme, an ancillary concern in the early films that became a major theme in Escape" - "For Conquest, Thompson and Dehn focused heavily on the theme of racial conflict, which was largely absent in the early films but had been a major feature in Escape" (maybe largely absent isn't the best option)

- I don't know about this one... the source says that race was a supporting theme present in the first two films, just not as prominent as it became in the last films.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:44, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Battle for the Planet of the Apes

"The filmmakers went into the project knowing it would be the last of the original series" - "The filmmakers went into the project knowing it would be the last of the series". (I doubt they knew it was the original series at the time)
- Done.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:44, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Planet of the Apes TV Series

"bringing an end to the APJAC era of the Planet of the Apes franchise" - "bringing an end to the APJAC Productions era of the Planet of the Apes franchise"
- Done.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:44, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"Roddy McDowall returned to the franchise as Galen, a chimpanzee who becomes convinced of the astronauts' story and joins them" - "Roddy McDowall returned to the franchise as Galen, a chimpanzee who joins the astronauts" (what was the story that he was convinced of?)
- Done.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:44, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"reedited" - "re-edited"
- Is there a problem with "reedited"? It seems to be in wide use.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:44, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - I'm not going to pretend to be a grammar / MoS expert. It looked wrong to me and I googled it and got way more hits for re-edited than reedited. Up to you though. Scribolt (talk) 13:23, 3 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Return to the Planet of the Apes

"The show did not earn particularly strong ratings" - "The show did not achive / get particularly strong ratings"
- Done (replaced with "achieve").--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:44, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't got any further, I may go if time allows. I hope this is useful / welcome so far. Scribolt (talk) 13:23, 3 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

- It has, thanks so much for your help.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:44, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - No problem, I'll try and look at the rest in detail, but it'll probably be next week now. Enjoyable article by the way, I didn't say so before. Scribolt (talk) 13:23, 3 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Tim Burton's Planet of the Apes

"Fox insisted on a firm July 2001 release date" → "Fox insisted on a July 2001 release date".
- Done.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:03, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"upends civilization by discovering the apes descended from the normal Earth primates employed on his mission." → "upends the ape civilization after discovering that it was descended from the primate research subjects from his own mission, who had arrived there many years before him." (Or something else similar, but it took me two or three reads of the sentence and a quick look at the other article to get a clear idea of where the apes had originated from)
Done. I took another stab, hopefully it's clearer now.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:03, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Rise of the Planet of the Apes"

"In the final script, Caesar receives enhanced cognition from a viral drug created by Will Rodman, who raises him; after being imprisoned in a primate sanctuary, Caesar uses his ingenuity to launch an uprising." → "In the final script, Caesar receives a viral drug created by scientist Will Rodman, who raises and cares for him. The drug give him enhanced cognition and after being imprisoned in a primate sanctuary, Caesar uses his ingenuity to launch an uprising."
I made some of these changes, but Caesar does not actually receive the drug in the film; his mother does and he inherits the virus. He is born with enhanced cognition, so I left that part the same.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:03, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Toy and merchandise

"merchandise may have inspired the campaigns that later became commonplace for media ventures." Just a thought really, media ventures is a bit, well vague and all-encompassing. Is the source referring to film franchises spin offs etc? If so, it might be better to change it to something a little more specific.
- Changed to "film and television series.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:03, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"Eric Greene writes that Apes toys were popular enough to lead some contemporary children to engage in role-playing make believe games that simulated the series' conflicts in a manner similar to "Cowboys and Indians". I'm missing something here, what is notable about children playing make believe games with a toy? I'm sure there's something else behind this, but as written it doesn't seem any more unusual than a child waving a toy dinosaur / aeroplane around.
- I added a line about the kids games being apes-vs.-humans specifically, a la Cowboys and Indians (and similar games). I only included the line because Greene devotes 3 paragraphs to it and appears to consider it significant (he says that like Cowboys and Indians, it "ritualizes U.S. racial oppression and racial violence as 'play'", and moreover, became a pretty popular game in the 70s).--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:03, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Themes

"Other critics have followed Greene's interpretations." → "Other critics have seconded / agreed with / developed Greene's interpretations." Or something else. Can you follow an interpretation? Maybe you can.
- I left this one be; some just echo his opinion, some expand upon it, but these all "follow" it.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:03, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Cultural impact and legacy

"Fans continued their interest in the franchise through publications..." → "Fans' interest in the franchise continued through publications..."
- Done.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:03, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Last copy edit suggestions. Please note that, as I said at the beginning that scope of the review was copy editing, and others more experience than myself will have to assess against the GA / FA criteria. Apologies for the delay, excellent work! (you, not me) Scribolt (talk) 07:18, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

- Thank you so much for your help, it is most appreciated!--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:03, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by David Fuchs

Sorry for the delay. Real world got crazy. But overall, I think this is a pretty solid article.

Prose is decent, I'll look into doing some touchups. One thing I notice is that the lead is a bit ungainly. Given there are so many films, I think you're better off cutting all the litany of film names and summarizing the key ones, like James Bond and Star Trek don't list all the films there.
Overall, I think the article structure is solid and logical. I'm not certain on whether the cast matrix is really worth including; I don't see it in many similarly broad film franchises and given the high amount of turnover between the films I don't think it's really appropriate. Don't see any issues with comprehensiveness.
Citations are consistent, but there are some Harvard ref errors in the footnotes. I think some of the referencing could be tighter, however; you're citing a nine-page span for current ref 116, for example. Likewise, three different sources are used to cite nearly the entire second paragraph of the Planet of the Apes film section, with no clarity as to which parts are cited by which sources (the Webb citation can't be used for the 5.8 million budget figure, for example.)
Did a spot-check at sources available online and didn't see issues with close paraphrasing or incorrect citations, beyond the above issue.
Images look fine and have appropriate rationales.

--Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 22:19, 26 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No problem on the delay, thanks for your input

I'll try to give the intro another stab and remove mentions of every film/incarnation.
I don't think the cast matrix or matrix for the film's reception is particularly useful. Such things aren't consistently used at film series articles (at least not GA/FA ones). I left it in as it was there when I started working on the article and appears to be mostly cited, but I'd go so far as to suggest we remove it.
I tightened ref 116 to just the first passage where the author specifically cites Greene. On paragraph 2 of the first film's section, I changed the citation somewhat to make it clearer which cite is meant to represent which statement. As an aside, the $5.8 million budget figure was mis-cited (it's on a different page than the one cited), so thanks for the catch. I've also tried to find and fix all the ref errors (one missing a page number will have to wait until I get back to my books).

Thanks again, and let me know of anything else you think of.-Cúchullain ^t/c 14:41, 27 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]