Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2017 September 15

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September 15

The need for a time signature and measures

Why do we need a time signature and measures in order to write/perform music? Is writing/performing music possible with just different note value and a metronome mark (using a quarter note, which already determines how fast one should perform the song because it determines how many quarter notes should be played in one minute)?

Also, if we do need time signatures, if one were to change the time signature of a song from a 4/4 to a 2/4, would the song sound different when performed? VarunSoon (talk) 06:36, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

Indeed it would. By convention, time signature communicates additional information about the feel of a piece besides just the number of beats per measure. By stressing certain beats and making extremely tiny alterations to the timing, each time signature communicates a certain way to play the piece different from all others. Watch the first 2 minutes of this video which explains it quite well. The example used there (starting at about 0:57) compares 3/4 time to 6/8 time, which is different than the two you asked, but still captures the concept well. I found this video as well that explains the conventional difference between 4/4 and 2/4. --Jayron32 10:57, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

There is indeed some music written without time signatures, ranging from the unmeasured preludes of Louis Couperin (notated in only whole notes, and intended to be executed freely without regard to meter) to the sonatas of Galina Ustvolskaya (which usually involve relentless and completely even quarter-note beats), and weirdly passing through the music of Erik Satie (many of whose pieces are written without time signatures, but correspond fairly clearly to simple ones like 2/4, 3/4, or 6/8). But this is not the norm, because time signatures are useful for the reasons Jayron32 mentions (and in fact the absence of a time signature itself communicates additional information just like the presence of any one is – namely, that there should be either no real differentiation in stress between beats, or even no sense of a consistent meter or beat at all). Double sharp (talk) 13:27, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

Movements in fighting video games

Some time ago I noticed that characters' movements in modern fighting games are somewhat unnatural, as if they were on roller skates. When quick approaches, etc. are required, the characters often move as if by sliding, in contrast to older Mortal Kombat-like games where you can see individual leg movements. Why is that? Is it because developers don't want complicated animations? 212.180.235.46 (talk) 10:33, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

Well, the movement is unrealistic in any number of different ways, but one of the things I have noticed as a longtime player is that the desire to simulate making contact (fist to jaw, say) is very difficult to space out correctly. In real life, you would extend reach, re-plant feet, re-position the body, etc. in a multitude of ways nearly automatically and almost instantaneously. That's hard to simulate. In most fighting games, the visual attention is focused on the upper portion of the body, which generally means that any cheating should be done down below. So, that is what happens. The alternate would be jarringly improbable limb lengths or angles. Having the character slide forward or back is a reasonable trade-off against all the computational and graphical heavy work otherwise required. Matt Deres (talk) 17:22, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

There's also the fundamental issue that hyper-realistic graphics and animation is an end-to-itself in gaming, or that such graphics and animation improve gameplay. Games like Nethack still enjoy high levels of popularity and are not necessarily improved by such changes. Game designers are primarily concerned with making their games fun and playable, realism can, of course, be used in service of that end, but should not be used to the detriment of that end. Unrealistic physics can actually make for more playable games. --Jayron32 18:12, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

Many cheat up top, too, by drawing a flashy starburst deal ("hit sparks") at the point of impact. When viewers see that, they're distracted from realizing they didn't see realistic contact. Somewhat like noticing a pro wrestler stomping the mat with a punch, instead of noticing the silence of the punch itself. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:24, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Note that walking is particularly difficult to get from tweening, where you create just a few frames and have the program interpolate between them. Consider two tweened scenes:

A) A fist starts 10 inches from a face and ends up on the face. The tweened image shows the fist 5 inches from the face. No problem.

B) The person is standing 10 feet from their opponent and then right in contact with them. The tweened image shows them 5 feet from their opponent, but the feet are in the same position. This looks like they are sliding, not walking.

Of course, there is a fix, by manually creating more key frames with the feet and legs in every position, but this is expensive and time-consuming. StuRat (talk) 21:53, 15 September 2017 (UTC)