Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2014 November 11
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November 11
[edit]Translation please
[edit]How should I translate "Römisches Institut der Görres-Gesellschaft"? The Görres Society part isn't so problematic; it's the first part. I can't seem to do elegance this morning, and there is the matter of convention in the naming of these societies. Drmies (talk) 15:25, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- A bit of light googling suggests you can take your pick of 'The Roman Institute of the Görres Society' or 'The Görres Historical Society Institute in Rome'. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 16:08, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- The latter appears to be a translation of "Historischen Institut der Görres-Gesellschaft in Rom", which is used in German sources as well, but only concerning the period from 1888 to about 1950. I suspect that it is either a dated name for the same society or a defunct subdivision of the Görres-Gesellschaft. I can't find any specific information about that however, and the name is apparently not used nowadays by the society itself (see website). Also, googling "Görres Historical Society Institute in Rome" gives me zero results. I would suggest using "The Roman Institute of the Görres Society" (like here). - Lindert (talk) 16:50, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Thank you both; I'm going with "The Roman Institute". Drmies (talk) 18:48, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Drmies, Römisches in this context means (Roman) Catholic, and has nothing necessarily to do with the city. I have read enough bad theology to know. μηδείς (talk) 23:00, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- According to the German article it was founded in Koblenz, and is identified as Catholic, and after it gained church patronage the Römisches Institut der Görres-Gesellschaft had branches in Rome, Lisbon, Madrid and Jerusalem. Let's ping Florian Blaschke to confirm my reading. μηδείς (talk) 23:10, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- (ec)I thought so too at first, but if you look at the website of the Görres-Gesellschaft you'll see that they have a "Institut Rom" and an "Institut Jerusalem". The Roman Institute's website states that "Das 1888 gegründete Römische Institut der Görres-Gesellschaft (RIGG) ist ein Auslandsinstitut der in Bonn sitzenden Görres-Gesellschaft.", and their startpage says "Willkommen in Rom!" so it really sounds like "Römisch" is referring to the city of Rome here. Of course the Görres Society is also a Roman Catholic society, but that's not what gave it its name. - Lindert (talk) 23:16, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- It is indeed their foothold in Rome. Thank you Lindert. Drmies (talk) 00:01, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Yes, I'll have to concede the point, since nothing in English links to [1] while our Goerres Society article links to the broader German article for the society as a whole, and is ambiguously written, mentioning the Römisches Institut der Görres-Gesellschaft, as well as one in Lisbon, Madrid, and Jerusalem, but not calling any of them by their city names. It's also unlikely that a Catholic institution would call itself Roemisch except in distinction to the other Catholic rites. μηδείς (talk) 01:24, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- @Drmies: Just in case you are working on the broader Görres topic: the four institutes are "Römisches Institut der Görres-Gesellschaft (RIGG)" and "Jerusalemer Institut der Görres-Gesellschaft (JIGG)" (both named after the city), "Portugiesisches Institut der Görresgesellschaft zur Pflege der Wissenschaft" in Lisbon and a "Görres library" in Madrid, but the library was transferred to the local Spanish archdiocese in 2002 (it kept only the name Görres), seems like activity in Spain has ceased (not sure). GermanJoe (talk) 04:01, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- GermanJoe, yes, I'd like to do that, though I found that translating this officialese German is like eating concrete. (And this came about only because I translated Rudolf Schieffer a while ago...) Drmies (talk) 04:29, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- German officials are well-known for their clear and succinct naming conventions ;). GermanJoe (talk) 04:34, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- GermanJoe, yes, I'd like to do that, though I found that translating this officialese German is like eating concrete. (And this came about only because I translated Rudolf Schieffer a while ago...) Drmies (talk) 04:29, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- @Drmies: Just in case you are working on the broader Görres topic: the four institutes are "Römisches Institut der Görres-Gesellschaft (RIGG)" and "Jerusalemer Institut der Görres-Gesellschaft (JIGG)" (both named after the city), "Portugiesisches Institut der Görresgesellschaft zur Pflege der Wissenschaft" in Lisbon and a "Görres library" in Madrid, but the library was transferred to the local Spanish archdiocese in 2002 (it kept only the name Görres), seems like activity in Spain has ceased (not sure). GermanJoe (talk) 04:01, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Yes, I'll have to concede the point, since nothing in English links to [1] while our Goerres Society article links to the broader German article for the society as a whole, and is ambiguously written, mentioning the Römisches Institut der Görres-Gesellschaft, as well as one in Lisbon, Madrid, and Jerusalem, but not calling any of them by their city names. It's also unlikely that a Catholic institution would call itself Roemisch except in distinction to the other Catholic rites. μηδείς (talk) 01:24, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- It is indeed their foothold in Rome. Thank you Lindert. Drmies (talk) 00:01, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
- Drmies, Römisches in this context means (Roman) Catholic, and has nothing necessarily to do with the city. I have read enough bad theology to know. μηδείς (talk) 23:00, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Thank you both; I'm going with "The Roman Institute". Drmies (talk) 18:48, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- The latter appears to be a translation of "Historischen Institut der Görres-Gesellschaft in Rom", which is used in German sources as well, but only concerning the period from 1888 to about 1950. I suspect that it is either a dated name for the same society or a defunct subdivision of the Görres-Gesellschaft. I can't find any specific information about that however, and the name is apparently not used nowadays by the society itself (see website). Also, googling "Görres Historical Society Institute in Rome" gives me zero results. I would suggest using "The Roman Institute of the Görres Society" (like here). - Lindert (talk) 16:50, 11 November 2014 (UTC)