Language desk
< July 9	<< Jun \| July \| Aug >>	Current desk >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is a transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

July 10

2d vs. 2nd & 3d vs. 3rd

When writing, how do we distinguish 2d and 2nd; and 3d and 3rd, when it comes to military organizations? 2nd Cavalry, 3d regiment, etc, etc.. See this article for instance. At first I though maybe it was just a matter of how it was when the divisions were first formed or chartered. But d and nd/rd seem to sometimes be used interchangeably. Ditch ∝ 00:12, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me that "d" in this usage is simply an obsolete spelling. --174.89.49.204 (talk) 02:20, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Up to now I was under the impression that this was the normal American way of writing these ordinals, however 174.89 above suggests that usage has changed. 78.145.26.105 (talk) 11:37, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

English numerals#Ordinal numbers says: 'In the legal field and in some older publications, the ordinal abbreviation for "second" and "third" is simply "d".'

I dimly recall a conversation on this topic specifically about US Army formation numerals, but it may have been over at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history. Alansplodge (talk) 14:02, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Definitely not the normal American way. Evidence? All the street names in my city with 2nd, 3rd, 22nd, etc. And this is in an American city with very few "named" streets. Most of the streets here are of the format "5th Street", "4th Avenue", "8th Street Place", "13th Avenue Drive", etc. Ordinal numbers are the norm for street names in this city. I have, however, seen a totally erroneous sign with "3st" (or was it "3th"?). --Khajidha (talk) 16:30, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

But see 3d INFANTRY DIVISION and United States Army Heroes During World War II: 3d Infantry Division (picked at random). Alansplodge (talk) 18:50, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe it is common in the US military, but it seems unknown in civilian life. --Khajidha (talk) 20:49, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The OP was asking specifically about "military organizations". Wikipedia goes with 3rd Infantry Division (United States) and its use in the US forces seems to be historical only, but I don't have a reference for that. By the way, "2d amendment" seems quite a common non-military usage, even in recent writing: [1] [2] [3] [4] Alansplodge (talk) 10:53, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

My comment was more to 78.145.26.105's statement that they thought it was "was the normal American way of writing these ordinals". --Khajidha (talk) 15:45, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, we seem to be in agreement now. Alansplodge (talk) 17:30, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Soursop in danish.

83.73.199.185 (talk) 13:09, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Courtesy link: Soursop (never heard of it in the UK). Alansplodge (talk) 14:05, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Pigget annona, according to the Danish Wikipedia (disclaimer: I do not speak Danish). Cheers ⌘ _hugarheimur 14:33, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Faroese: Gróðrarbotnur

If anyone has an idea what this word could mean? --87.176.53.211 (talk) 15:31, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In this poem, it is translated as "and the silence". 2606:A000:1126:28D:E530:308D:8AAB:802D (talk) 15:56, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Uhm, no, it isn't. The passages in that poem and its translation that correspond to each other are:

flatin er endaleysur
tølandi
gróðrarbotnur
fyri miðvísa tilveruflýggjan

the surface is endless
tempting
breeding ground
for a determined flight from reality

According to wiktionary, gróðra is the genitive of wikt:gróður ('plant') in Icelandic (which is quite similar to Faroese); and botnur has several meanings including 'bottom', 'dale', 'sea bed', so "breeding ground" in the translation might fit it well. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:11, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, I must have miscounted stanzas. 2606:A000:1126:28D:E530:308D:8AAB:802D (talk) 16:21, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, breeding ground makes sense. The only other thing I could find was a section heading in an annual report of the Faroese Bank, which is given as potential for growth in the English version. Those two translations aren't too far apart if you think about it.

Yes, we also tried splitting the term, using Icelandic cognates etc. in the German reference desk. But we ended up with a valley bottom covered with vegetation :)

Thanks again! --87.176.53.211 (talk) 16:40, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I guess it's confirmed now: With what I've learnt above, I found a Faroese-Danish parallel text which translates it as grobund (breeding ground, hotbed etc., lit. and fig.). --87.176.53.211 (talk) 16:54, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]