Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2016 April 20

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April 20

Lane markings

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Often there will be a road that is two lanes (one going each direction) and it will widen to three when there is a left turn lane. Before that turn lane, there will be a series of yellow stripes as the third lane doesn't exist yet and the road is widening. Why are these yellow stripes painted on the road? Why not just start the turn lane further back? People often drive over the yellow lines (basically ignoring them) to go to the turn lane directly, so why bother with them? Dismas|^(talk) 12:46, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Main reason is probably to keep drivers who intend to go straight at the intersection from getting stuck in the turn lane and needing to merge over at the last second. If that intersection had a dedicated right turn lane, with the left lane for going straight or turning left, then there would be no buffer zone (though the expanding right lane might get a double yellow line until the road had widened enough to safely accommodate the new lane of traffic). Also, you want to keep the lane reconfiguration from being too far from the intersection, or a driver might mistakenly get in the left lane not knowing it's a turn only lane, and then need to merge over at the last minute. Finally, those buffer zones are great for driveway access if the road has even a little traffic. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 13:13, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Because in this junction, traffic that wants to go straight ahead takes the right-hand lane. The rules of good junction design say that the default option - the one that would be taken by a driver who stays in the same lane - should be to continue on the same road, so the yellow hatching forces everyone into the right-hand "straight ahead" lane, then gives them the option to turn left if necessary. This should make it less likely that a surprised driver finds themselves in the wrong lane and has to swerve at the last minute. (An example of a junction that violates this rule is a TOTSO, or "turn off to stay on") Smurrayinchester 13:19, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Yea, here in the US they often seem to put the break in the line where you are "supposed" to get into the left-turn lane way too close to the turn, and it's way too short, so that you would need to be able to move your car sideways to get into that lane, and only one or two cars would fit in the left-turn lane. In my experience everyone ignores that absurdity and just drives over the yellow diagonal stripes. If you try to obey the law, you won't be able to make a left turn, because by the time you get to the legal break in the line there will be a car in your spot in the left-turn lane who did the reasonable thing instead of following the law. Here's a pic that shows what I mean: [1]. Note the absurdly small break in the line that only looks big enough for a bicycle, and that there is room for only one car to wait in the left turn lane, while the diagonal lines (extending off the bottom of the pic) mean that space that could be used for left-turning cars is instead wasted, resulting in the left-turning cars blocking the straight lane and causing gridlock (if the left-turners are dumb enough to follow the lines). When cars continue to drive over the diagonal stripes, rather than the authorities removing them, they often install rumble strips, which are also ignored. StuRat (talk) 16:45, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

I agree with Stu, all too often you have to decide between breaking the law, crossing the yellow striping, and risk being hit by an idiot in the left-become middle lane (who only noticed he was going to miss his turn after he stopped texting); or obey the law, and be blocked from making the left, because now there are 10 cars in who've crossed those lines illegally, and only 6 will make it through before the light prevents the rest until the next cycle.

I got pulled over a few years back, and the policeman asked if I knew what I had done, and I was flabbergasted, and said no. He apologized, and said that I had crossed the yellow stripes (that's a band, right?) too early, and that the township had placed a quota on ticketing there as it was very lucrative; otherwise he considered I had done nothing wrong. The charge was "illegal passing" and in this case cost me quite a bit in fines and a raised insurance rate. μηδείς (talk) 20:41, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

I do believe we've gotten to the reason they paint the lines in such a seemingly crazy way. By making it illegal to drive in a safe way, they provide "revenue enhancement" for themselves, from anyone who does dive safely (and hence illegally). And the quota system deals with any police officers who refuse to give people tickets for driving safely. StuRat (talk) 22:16, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Those strips are installed so you know that you're off the main lane. It helps prevent accidents.--TMCk (talk) 18:03, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

• The triangular area indicated by these markings is called a Gore (road) and the gore is intended to direct two lanes into gradually diverging or converging directions. In this case, the meaning is clear; as the road widens, you'd want to keep straight-moving traffic from going into the eventual turn lane; the turn lane doesn't start being marked until the road is actually wide enough. Gores are also used at exit and entrance ramps (Brit: Slip roads) and merge zones as well. --Jayron32 18:58, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

I don't believe it is a gore, that is specifically for a road split into two. I believe, in australia and the UK at least, this is called a Traffic_island. And if Sturat is even remotely serious about his conspiracy theory answer, I am not sure about the US but in Australia, the law specifically allows driving on painted traffic islands when the island is used to form a turning lane: A driver may drive on or over a single continuous line along the side of or surrounding a painted island for up to 50 metres— (a) to enter or leave the road; or (b) to enter a turning lane that begins immediately after the painted island Vespine (talk) 23:49, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Glad to hear it, but in the US, at least where μηδείς got her ticket, that doesn't seem to be the case. StuRat (talk) 03:34, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

In most U.S. states, traffic regulations do not allow a driver to cross a solid line (white or yellow) for any normal reason. Dashed lines are to mark lanes where crossing is allowed. For example, see here for the rules for Massachusetts, though most states are similar. These rules make it pretty clear that the only acceptable reason to cross a solid line is to avoid a hazard which would otherwise be unavoidable. --Jayron32 12:45, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Here is an excellent google maps view of the location where I got the ticket. I would not refer to it as a gore, but would reserve that term for places where roadways split, such as shown in the gore article or, e.g., where Rte 42 South splits with the northern two lanes becoming the Atlantic City Expressway and the southern two lanes merging into the Black Horse Pike. Hesitant drivers often drive right up the painted gore and end up in the grass gore!

In my case, if you look at the google map, I was driving north on Rte 41 and wanted to make a left-hand turn onto Cooper, headed west. I had been on 41 for about a mile up to that point. When I got to just before where Parkside Avenue (an apartment complex entrance) intersects 41, traffic was becoming backed up. Had I stayed in the same lane, I would be behind the five cars you see in this image, but I needed to get in the new left turn lane (you can see the arrow painted on the road).

But traffic was backed up; there were actually about 9 or 10 cars in front of me, and already about four cars in the newly created left-turn lane. You can see that "physically" the only thing creating this left turn lane was the painted lines, the road was wide enough for three cars. So I passed the last car in the right lane directly in front of me by prematurely moving left (with my signal, and paying attention) partially crossing over the orange bulge with my left tires. Had I waited til I could have moved over, I would probably not have been able to do so. Someone else would have gotten the ticket. μηδείς (talk) 19:50, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

In short, you're one of those drivers who make it almost impossible to let someone in coming from the right (parking lot in your case).--TMCk (talk) 20:24, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

I am not sure I understand you, TracyMcClark. First, that photo looks to me like the light on 41 north had just turned red, and that the five cars you see in the "right" lane at this point wer travelling with a reasonable distance and would, a second later have been much closer together. I assume the parkinglot you are referring to, integrity auto group, does have an exit where the last of those five cars was at the time that picture was taken, but it is certainly not stopped there.

And your assumption is wrong in the general and the specific. None of those cars is me, if I were there I would have been the sixth car, moving to the left about where the "H" in Hurfville Road is labelled by google maps, and maybe or maybe not crossing the orange "hump" to get to the left hand turn lane, but in any case would have been blocking nothing. And no, I don't block side roads or driveways when at a stop under normal conditions, Most drivers of my age and in that area are very courteous, waving people to cut in or across when you are stopped and there way is otherwise clear. I always signal.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Medeis (talk • contribs)

Of course you're not in the picture, it's google map. And I wasn't saying you blocked someone. If I'm on the right (still only lane at that point) and want to wave a car from the parking lot to enter and go straight or turn left, they won't see you coming in from the non-existent 2nd lane left of me.--TMCk (talk) 04:48, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Do people in NJ always leave that much space between cars when stopped at a light ? You could fit a couple more cars in (and leave the entrance to the left-turn lane clear), if everyone would just pack in a bit closer. StuRat (talk) 23:20, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

No, those cars were almost certainly shot as they were coming to a stop, not already at a full stop, in which case they'd be close enough not to see the pavement in front of them. There'd only be a gap if there were a side road, especially from which there was a car entering, turning or crossing. μηδείς (talk) 03:30, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Are you gonna stack them?--TMCk (talk) 23:30, 22 April 2016 (UTC)