Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/USS Oberrender

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by Zawed (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 00:20, 18 August 2019 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

USS Oberrender

Instructions for nominators and reviewers

Nominator(s): Kges1901 (talk)

Featured article candidates/USS Oberrender/archive1

This is the first United States Navy article that I have brought up for A-class review, and holds the distinction of being the first article on a USN destroyer escort to make it to GA-class. Oberrender had a fairly active career as a destroyer escort in the Pacific during World War II, and could be said to have led a charmed life until Okinawa, where she was hit by a kamikaze which rendered her a constructive total loss. Kges1901 (talk) 21:54, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by PM

This article is in good shape. Good to see smaller ships getting a run. I have some comments, mainly additional wikification and MOS-related, but a few substantive things:

suggest linking keel laying, ceremonial ship launching, ship commissioning, convoy, escort carrier, anti-submarine warfare and target ship in the lead

Done

suggest decapping Invasion in the lead

Done

suggest adding the month she returned to service in the lead

Done

suggest "As a result, ~~the destroyer escort~~she"

Done

suggest linking destroyer escort again at first mention in the body

Done

suggest "The John C. Butler-class destroyer escorts were designed to meet a need for large numbers of cheap anti-submarine escort ships for ocean convoys, and as a result carried little anti-surface armament."

Done

"~~As a John C. Butler-class destroyer escort,~~ Oberrender"

Done

if o/a, state that when giving her length in the body

Done

suggest turning lk=on for displacement so long tons are linked, as they are obscure for non-ship buffs

Done

suggest "~~Oberrender~~She was propelled"

Rephrased differently to avoid repeating 'she' too much in the design section

suggest turning lk=on for the power, so kW is linked

Done

if the 5" guns were single mounts in gunshields, state this. Also state where they were positioned "one forward and one aft of the superstructure" if that is correct?

Done

where were the 40 mm Bofors mounted?

Done

suggest "also controlled by the Mark 51"

Done, rephrased to avoid confusion

suggest "built without the three" as is currently reads like it was a reduction rather than a complete absence of TTs

Done

suggest "Oberrender was equipped" or "The ship was equipped" in general, don't use "the destroyer escort", just alternate "she", "the ship" and Oberrender

Done

suggest linking keel laying

Done

consider linking Lieutenant commander (United States)

Done

"who captained the ship for the duration of her service"

Done

link fitting-out

Done

one of the Oberrender's isn't italicised

Done

link shakedown cruise

Done

suggest "For post-shakedown availability (repairs to correct deficiencies found during shakedown)"→"For repairs to correct deficiencies found during shakedown" and "for further repairs" availability meaning repairs is very jargonish and impenetrable for a layperson

Done

"with the destroyer escort Rall"

Done

"Alongside the destroyer escorts" and "Walter C. Wann, and LeRay Wilson"

Done

suggest "Oberrender was heavily damaged"

Done

"leaving ~~the~~ Oberrender"

Done

state Ulithi is in the Caroline Islands

Done

decap Invasion in Invasion of Okinawa

Done

link for Abercrombie?

Done

suggest putting "on 21 March" at the beginning of that sentence

Done

suggest Suesens→Richard W. Suesens

Done

suggest "On the night of 29 March her lookouts spotted a Japanese G4M Betty bomber, flying above the transports she was escorting for the night. This was Oberrender's first Japanese aircraft sighting of the campaign. She..."

Done

suggest "assumed control of the screen in the waters surrounding the island, including Oberrender on anti-submarine patrol."

Done

DE→destroyer escort

Done

"to escort the attack transport"

Done

Hagushi wan? Hagushi Bay?

Done

there are duplinks of San Pedro Bay (Philippines), Hedgehog, and Ulithi

Done

to flank speed for ten minutes

The second ten minutes was actually a typo, so removed.

what sort of ship was PCE(R)-855?

Added

Citation(s) needed for the footnote, as the main text may be modified

Done. Thanks for the review.

That's all I have. Nice work. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:42, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Supporting. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:03, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Suggest scaling up the diagrams/maps

Done.

File:USS_Oberrender_(DE-344)_off_Boston,_Massachusetts_(USA),_on_15_July_1944_(80-G-382879).jpg: why a Navy tag? The source site is not Navy-affiliated and credits the image to one of the site's photographers

For the Navsource photos marked as from the National Archives, the contributors column means the person who emailed it to the site, not the photographer/copyright holder. Images with the ID starting in 80-G from the National Archives are from the official photographical files of the United States Navy. Also, below it there is an image (on Navsource) stamped Official USN photograph that is from the same sequence. Kges1901 (talk) 19:51, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

File:US_Navy_Battle_of_Okinawa_radar_picket_stations_1945.jpg: not seeing this image in the source cited? Nikkimaria (talk) 17:44, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Corrected the source.

Comments from AustralianRupert

Support: G'day, this looks pretty good to me. I reviewed this for GAN and see it has been improved further since then. I have a few minor comments/observations: AustralianRupert (talk) 23:47, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

in the Bibliography, move the link for Friedman to the first mention

Done.

in the Bibliography some of the ISBNs are hyphenated, but some are not

Done

Rielly uses the citation template, but the other works use the cite book template -- this renders the citation differently (but only very slightly)

Converted to cite book

After picking up the a lone Japanese -- typo "the a"

Done

Thomas Oberrender's rank isn't mentioned in the body, but is in the lead

Done

Orange, Texas: consider a comma after "Texas"

Done

she went to Borgen Bay of Cape Gloucester --> "she went to Borgen Bay off Cape Gloucester"?

Done

Source review

There's an awful amount of detail here since you're using primary sources for the ship's movements and assignments. I'd suggest summarizing a lot more of the detail.

I've trimmed some of the non-operational detail, but the article ought to give a better idea of what she was doing between December 1944 and the beginning of Okinawa, which DANFS covers in one sentence.

Fair enough. You got rid of most of the worst of it like the convoy names, etc.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 20:28, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not a fan of ribbon bars for ships, but this one is a problem since it's sourced to Navsource, which I don't believe to be RS.

Ribbon bars have been definitely displayed on ship's bridges since the 1980s at least (see battleships Iowa and Wisconsin for example), but since the Navy didn't figure out the campaigns until after she was out of service, on second thought I find this display anachronistic.

Cites and Bibliography are properly formatted.
Morison's a pretty old source and rather biased towards the US. In this context it might be OK since your cites of him are US-centric info. But can you find another more modern source that gives you same info?

The more modern sources that I've found cite Morison for the same info, so for the uncontroversial details in this article, I think it is unnecessary.

Other than Morison and Navsource, sources used are highly RS.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 18:30, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- One more small thing: please add the electronics types and models to the infobox--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 20:28, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Kges1901 (talk) 20:37, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

- Good to go.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 20:28, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Sturmvogel 66: Does that mean that it's good to go, or does it need another reviewer? (I only count two. so far.) Gog the Mild (talk) 23:11, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, just for the source review.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 23:30, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by CPA-5

Kamikaze should be italicised.

Kamikaze is now a loanword into English and does not need to be italicized.

The class was part of an initial requirement You mean were part of?

Class is singular in this case so 'was' is the correct usage.

two twin 40 mm Bofors anti-aircraft guns Add AA behind anti-aircraft.

Done

and ten 20 mm Oerlikon anti-aircraft cannon British plural cannon.

Done

the island, attached to the Atlantic Fleet.[7][2] Reorder the refs here.

Done

Sprague’s escort carriers to the Philippines for the invasion of Leyte Pipe the Philippines to the Second Philippine Republic.

That wouldn't work here because the Second Republic was the Japanese puppet government, but this usage is more about the Philippines in general, not the government.

In this case I'd reckon we shan't link the Philippines. Because I believe MOS tries to tell us that we shouldn't link current countries in general. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 21:12, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Unlinked.

That's anything from me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 15:01, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Looks great, support. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 21:44, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.