Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Wilfred Clouston

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article promoted by Ian Rose (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 23:20, 30 September 2021 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list

Wilfred Clouston

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Nominator(s): Zawed (talk)

Wilfred Clouston (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Wilfred Clouston was a New Zealand flying ace of the Royal Air Force during the Second World War. A contemporary of the likes of Cobber Kain, Alan Deere and Colin Gray, he is nowhere near as well known as he should be in New Zealand despite his aerial successes during the Battle of France and the following Battle of Britain. I wrote the article in March 2020 when I came across his online biography on the NZHistory and have been able to tap into a few book sources to beef up the content. It went through the GA process shortly afterwards and I have come back and made some revisions and done a little expansion work. As always, my thanks in advance to all those who stop by to provide feedback. Zawed (talk) 11:03, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

• Image licensing looks good (t · c) buidhe 10:04, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

CommentsSupport by CPA

• Wilfred Greville Clouston, known as Wilf, was born in Auckland known Wilf by whom? Or is this the same as the Dutch roepnaam?

• yes, it is similar to that. It could be considered a nickname, which is why it is in the infobox. Zawed (talk) 11:03, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

• the son of Allan and Vivienne Clouston No née?

• None of the sources I was able to access give a maiden name for his mother. Zawed (talk) 11:03, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

• Was he still in England from 1938 to the beginning of the war?

• Probably, but my sources aren't explicit on this. The squadron was definitely at Duxford at the start of the war, so I have added a mention of this. Zawed (talk) 11:03, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

• By this time, Clouston was married to Anne née Hyde Unlin née here if the first comment is addressed.

• Left linked since couldn't determine the mother's maiden name. Zawed (talk) 11:03, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

• His wife was the daughter of an admiral of the Royal Navy We don't know who the Admiral was?

• It was a "R. Hyde". I couldn't find a full name or link to an RN office with that initial and name so didn't think it worthwhile naming him. Zawed (talk) 11:03, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

• Soon after the German invasion of the Low Countries, No. 19 Squadron A "No." template is needed here.

• I'm not sure I understand this comment, do you mean #? That style is not appropriate for referring to RAF squadrons. Zawed (talk) 11:03, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

• Isn't there a number template instead of a hashtag? Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 19:08, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

• Sorry, I don't what you mean here? I had a look at a couple of FAs for RAF/RAAF pilots and don't see them using a template when referring to a sqadron number. Zawed (talk) 09:52, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

• Never mind it's not really important.

• By August 1941, the British government had recognised the growing threat that the Japanese Empire presented to its territories in Asia and the New Zealand government No upper case for "government"?

• Capitalised. Zawed (talk) 11:03, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

• There's a second "government too.

• Whoops, missed that one. Have fixed now. Zawed (talk) 09:55, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

• onto a variety of positions during his postwar RAF career Isn't it "post-war"?

• Yes, it is, have fixed. Zawed (talk) 11:03, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

• Maybe standardise the hyphens in the ISBNs?

• Converted to Shores & Williams to the ISBN 13 format for consistency. Zawed (talk) 11:03, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

That's anything from me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 11:44, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

• Thanks CPA-5, I have responded to your comments above. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 11:03, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Support by Nick-D

This is a very interesting article. I'd like to offer the following comments:

• Do we know why he enlisted in the RAF rather than the RNZAF? (not that this was uncommon)
  • It's not in the sources unfortunately. I can't add it to the article, but I would hazard a guess it will have been either because the RAF had more modern equipment or he specifically wanted to fly fighter planes. Zawed (talk) 04:14, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
    • Yes, a lot of Australian pilots did the same (I think that the RAF was recruiting much larger numbers than the RAAF, which made it easier to get a place) Nick-D (talk) 11:33, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

      Comment: The RAAF had a commitment to train 50 pilots a year in 1936-37 for short-term commissions in the RAF. This represented half of the pilots trained. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:59, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

• "Clouston proceeded to the Flying Training School" - can the school be named and linked?

• Done. Zawed (talk) 04:14, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

• The first sentence in the 'Second World War' section is a bit over-long

• Shorter now due to being revised as a result of one of CPA-5's comments. Zawed (talk) 04:14, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

• Can 'probable' be linked or explained?

• No link for probable so have revised the text slightly to explain. Zawed (talk) 04:14, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

• Link 'section', 'flight'

• Done. Zawed (talk) 04:14, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

• "The majority of the flying personnel of this newly formed squadron, which operated Hawker Hurricanes, were New Zealanders" - was Clouston deliberately selected as the commander of this unit on this basis, or was it a coincidence?

• The source isn't explicit on this but I suspect that the selection was deliberate. Zawed (talk) 04:14, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

• "and had been sent to England to fly for the RAF" - I suspect he was sent to fly with the RAF, not for it (the various dominion air crews were posted to RAF units but remained members of their own air forces)

• Yes, he joined the RNZAF, have rephrased to "with". Zawed (talk) 04:14, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

• "the poor performance of the Buffaloes were even more exposed" - bit awkward. The problems with the Buffalos were also known from a much earlier stage, as the RAF and RAAF aircraft went into action against the Japanese in Malaya in December 1941 and were soon found to be inadequete.

• Rephrased a bit, how is it now? Zawed (talk) 10:55, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

• That looks good Nick-D (talk) 11:33, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

• What was 'RAF Air Operations Headquarters'? Was this part of the RAF Malaya command structure?

• It looks like this was poorly phrased on my part, I have rejigged it. Zawed (talk) 10:55, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

• "Before his capture, he was still able to facilitate the evacuation of the remaining ground crew of the squadron from Singapore" - could you say how he did this? The text only notes how he fled.

• Have added. Zawed (talk) 10:55, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

• Can anything more be said about Clouston's experiences as a POW?

• No, nothing in my sources. Zawed (talk) 10:55, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

• OK. There's a large literature on the POW experience in Australia, but I imagine that this isn't the case in NZ. Nick-D (talk) 11:33, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

• Did Clouston return to the UK or NZ after the war?

• My sources aren't explicit on this. I would have thought that he travelled to NZ initially, especially if his wife was still there. Zawed (talk) 10:55, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

• "The RAF base at Khormaksar in Aden" - suggest rephrasing as 'RAF Khormaksar in Aden'

• Done. Zawed (talk) 10:55, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

• "were in the possession of the Waipukurau Returned and Services Association until its closure in December 2011" - the source says that this material was expected to be transferred to a "local museum" - do you know if that happened? Nick-D (talk) 05:36, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

• I can't find any reports of this. I tried searching the website for the Central Hawke's Bay Museum, the most likely local museum, but no joy. Zawed (talk) 10:55, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Nick-D, thanks for the review, much appreciated. I have responded above. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 10:55, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Those changes all look good, and I'm pleased to support this nomination. Nick-D (talk) 11:33, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Support from Hawkeye7

All looks good to me. Mind the gaps if you want to go to FAC. See if you can get hold of a copy of the 1950 RAF list. (You could also obtain his service record from the RAF.) Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:59, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

• Thanks for the support Hawk. I don't plan on taking this to FAC at this stage. Zawed (talk) 10:32, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Source review - pass

• Perhaps unsurprisingly I can find no formatting issues.
• Cite 22: what is this supporting? Do you mean page 335?

Otherwise it all looks good. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:26, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

• Thanks for looking at this. That cite (22) is supporting the mention of Clouston's brother joining the RNZAF in 1940 (it's in footnote 1 on page 242 of Thompson). The rest is supported by Lambert. Zawed (talk) 21:51, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

OK. Usually when I am citing a footnote I say so. Possibly that's just me. Page 335 may be better for that. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:00, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.