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Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Television/August 2016 updates/PSE image

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Closing with the "Proposed implementation" text being added to MOS:TV, which includes the suggestions from the editors who discussed. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:38, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Current text

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The image presented in the infobox of the main article should ideally be an intertitle shot of the show (i.e., a screenshot capture of the show's title) or a promotional poster used to represent the show itself. Failing that, a DVD cover may be used. For episode articles, a screenshot may only be used if it meets the Non-free content criteria, i.e., (typically) if it is required to illustrate a significant element of the episode – that is, the object of explicit, sourced analytical commentary – and where that commentary is in need of visual support to be understood.

Once you have uploaded a suitable image:

  • On the file's description page, add a short description of the image (e.g., "This image is the current opening title for the series."), a source of where you found the image, the copyright holder (e.g., CBS, NBC, The CW, etc.), and an image copyright tag:
  • A fair use rationale must be included or the image will be deleted. The rationale should state why the image should be included on the article. For screenshots and other copyrighted images, a more detailed, individual fair use rationale must be given that explains what particular point of analysis this particular image is meant to illustrate.
  • Note: Please see the fair-use criteria for specific details on image usage, as it applies to all images in the article, not just in the infobox.
Example images that meet the criteria

New, updated text

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Depending on the article in question, a different image should be used in the infobox, based on Non-free content criteria:

  • For a show's main article, an intertitle shot of the show (i.e., a screenshot capture of the show's title) or a promotional poster used to represent the show itself should be used. Failing that, a home media cover may be used. If a show as multiple intertitles throughout its run, the one most representative of the show should ideally be used.
  • For season articles, a season-specific promotional poster or home media cover should be used, or possibly a season-specific title card if one exists.
  • Individual episode articles are less likely to have an infobox image, but if a promotional poster or image exists then it may be used. Other options include an episode-specific title card or home media cover (if the episode received an individual release), or a screenshot of a significant moment or element from the episode. The latter may only be used if it meets the Non-free content criteria, i.e., (typically) if it is required to illustrate the object of explicit, sourced analytical commentary, and where that commentary is in need of a visual support to be understood.

Additional images in an article outside of the infobox must also comply with Non-free content criteria (again to illustrate the object of explicit, sourced analytical commentary, and where that commentary is in need of a visual support to be understood) and should always strive to use free images whenever possible, per WP:FREER. Free images can be used from Wikimedia Commons. Examples of when not to include Non-free content can be seen at WP:NFC#UUI.

Once you have uploaded a suitable image, which can be done with the File Upload Wizard:

  • On the file's description page, add a short description of the image (e.g., "This image is the current opening title for the series."), a source of where you found the image, the copyright holder (the network the series aired on or its production company), a fair use rationale (the image will be deleted with out one) and an image copyright tag.
Example images that meet the criteria

Proposed changes

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Proposal 1 - Favre1fan93 (talk)
Depending on the article in question, a different image should be used in the infobox, based on Non-free content criteria:

  • For a show's main article, an intertitle shot of the show (i.e., a screenshot capture of the show's title) or a promotional poster used to represent the show itself should be used. Failing that, a home media cover may be used. If a show as multiple intertitles throughout its run, the one most representative of the show should ideally be used.
  • For season articles, a season-specific promotional poster or home media cover should be used, or possibly a season-specific title card if one exists.
  • Individual episode articles are less likely to have an infobox image, but if a promotional poster or image exists then it may be used. Other options include an episode-specific title card or home media cover (if the episode received an individual release), or a screenshot of a significant moment or element from the episode. The latter may only be used if it meets the Non-free content criteria, i.e., (typically) if it is required to illustrate the object of explicit, sourced analytical commentary, and where that commentary is in need of a visual support to be understood.

Additional images in an article outside of the infobox must also comply with Non-free content criteria (again to illustrate the object of explicit, sourced analytical commentary, and where that commentary is in need of a visual support to be understood) and should always strive to use free images whenever possible, per WP:FREER. Free images can be used from Wikimedia Commons. Examples of when not to include Non-free content can be seen at WP:NFC#UUI.

Once you have uploaded a suitable image, which can be done with the File Upload Wizard:

  • On the file's description page, add a short description of the image (e.g., "This image is the current opening title for the series."), a source of where you found the image, the copyright holder (the network the series aired on or its production company), a fair use rationale (the image will be deleted with out one) and an image copyright tag.
Example images that meet the criteria

Previous discussions

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Discussion

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  • Just a thought, if it hasn't been done, but we may want to shoot a message over to WP:FUC and WP:NONFREE editors as well. We're dealing with copyrighted items and there was disagreement over what constitutes "free" when you're dealing with a title card or intertitle shot. Given that we are supposed to push for free first, it might be a good idea to bring them in.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 18:02, 5 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • (edit conflict) I think a new sentence should be added between the current first and second one, saying "For season articles, a home media release cover or promotional poster should be used." The opening text should also be more neutral with "home media" cover, and we can list specifics with the templates below.
We should also link to the appropriate fair-use templates. So {{Non-free use rationale poster}} for posters, {{Non-free use rationale video cover}} for home media covers, {{Non-free use rationale title-card}}, for title cards, and then I guess {{Non-free media data}} and {{Non-free media rationale}} for screenshots, because there isn't a better template (at the moment). And then pull any new, or unstated, relevant text from NFCC, maybe in particular about using additional non-free images in the article, how it must provide visual commentary for inclusion (and not just willy-nilly), and encourage the use of Commons images.
Finally, update the examples if need be. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:09, 5 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A few ideas:
  • For a TV show whose title card - outside of background elements - would fall into the US's definition of uncopyrightable works - primarily simple text elements - I would recommend that we prefer the use of an SVG vector image rather than the title card, unless there is some really significant part of the non-logo part that should be the subject of discussion. For example, the image at Diff'rent Strokes can be replaced with just the text logo as there's no significant influence of the NYC skyline on the show. On the other hand, the background elements of the Cheers intro are very iconic to that series (at least, I believe that can be sourced and added to the article to better support it). I do note that we have the Graphics Lab that can help recreate text-only logos to SVG to help here.
  • As possibly suggested above, I would breakdown the image selection approach between a show's page, a season page, and an episode page.
  • For season pages, if the home media releases are not available (including usable ones that might come from digital distribution), then it is usually acceptable for a season that introduces a new title card to the series to use that title card only on that season page as to demonstrate the new logo approach for that season.
  • The episode page guidance should start on the assumption that most individual episodes generally do not require a non-free image, before point out that NFCC-meeting images can be used. In most cases, the selection of the image is going to be an editorial one, and that can make it difficult to find one that is appropriately respresentative, so its better to avoid that game. That said, in rare cases where a specific episode gets a promotion shot from the network/production company (such as some recent seasons of Doctor Who, or some Simpsons episodes), those absolutely should be used, since that is how the show was to be promoted. --MASEM (t) 19:45, 5 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks for the notes Masem. If you have any suggestions on appropriate wording to use, to cover what you suggested, that be great. Also, to your first point. We had a discussion a while back (here) from AlexTheWhovian about using a series' title card over just the plain text. What came out of that discussion, if memory serves and skimming it again now, was that the long stating consensus has been to use the title cards. But based on what you said in your first point, should the first instinct be to go with simple text SVG's of the series' name? If so, that would require a large number of article to have updated images (not impossible, just a lengthy task). - Favre1fan93 (talk) 05:33, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • My main issue with the SVG thing, is that we are using the image in the infobox for specific identification of the series. If it was just about the name and not the rest of the title screen, then we wouldn't need an image because text already covers that fine. I understand that there may be copyright issues with that, so I do think it is something we should discuss further. I agree with all of Masem's other points though. For season articles, I'd suggest something like this: "a season-specific promotional poster or home media cover should be used, or possibly a season-specific title card if one exists." For episode articles: "Individual episode articles are less likely to have an infobox image, but if a promotional poster or image exists then it may be used. Other options include an episode-specific title card or home media cover (if the episode received an individual release), or a screenshot of a significant moment or element from the episode. The latter may only be used if it meets the Non-free content criteria, i.e., (typically) if it is required to illustrate the object of explicit, sourced analytical commentary, and where that commentary is in need of visual support to be understood." - adamstom97 (talk) 09:56, 8 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just a quick note here: 1) I'm on a bit of a Wikibreak right now, so I may not be around much for these MOS:TV discussions for the next little while. 2) I really don't have much to contribute to this discussion, though Favre1fan93's suggestion about show "season" articles seems to have merit to me. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 02:07, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hi all. I've written up a proposal for wording. Please take a look at the prose at the beginning; that is what was adjusted the most. Additionally, the examples. Tried to pick a variety for the type of images we are allowing in this section. Had a hard time with screenshot examples, if anyone has them. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:45, 21 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The wording all looks good to me, and I think all the image examples are fine as long as they all have good rationales since we want to promote and/or illustrate good behaviour re non-free images. - adamstom97 (talk) 22:42, 21 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I see nothing wrong with it, or anything else to add. (I'm mostly just watching the page anyways; I've had no concerns thus far.) Alex|The|Whovian? 02:22, 29 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
AlexTheWhovian Are you aware of any screenshot images that have good licensing and fair use rationales? Those were a bit troublesome to find, and I didn't want to make it all completely Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D./Marvel centric. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 02:33, 29 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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