Wikipedia talk:Good article nominations

Good article nominations

WT:GAN

This is the discussion page for good article nominations (GAN) and the good articles process in general. To ask a question or start a discussion about the good article nomination process, click the Add topic link above. Please check and see if your question may already be answered; click the link to the Frequently asked questions below or search the Archives below. If you are here to discuss concerns with a specific review, please consider discussing things with the reviewer first before posting here.

See the Frequently asked questions (FAQ)

To help centralise discussions and keep related topics together, several other GA talk pages redirect here.

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GA: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16

Criteria: 1, 2, 3, 4

Reassessment: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

GA help: 1, 2

Nominations/Instructions: 1

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Cue sports split and question

I have split the "Cue sports" section into "Cue sports events and concepts" and "Cue sports people". Please review my work to ensure that everything is placed where its supposed to be.

In this section, there are articles that are media about cue sports: The Color of Money, The Hustler and Jimmy White's 2: Cueball. Should these be listed here, or moved to their media section? Z1720 (talk) 16:32, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Problematic review

Talk:Arrangement of lines/GA1 was started by User:Electrou over a week ago with a two-sentence "review" with no depth, detail, or source checking, and no action to change the actual nomination status of the article. The reviewer is apparently a very new Wikipedia editor. I pinged the reviewer and suggested mentorship, several days later, but have received no response and their only edit after the ping was to claim to go on wikibreak for a week (an odd thing for a brand-new editor to know how to do, but whatever). This nomination is over nine months old; it was, until Electrou picked it up, one of the five oldest unreviewed nominations, and is in the stretch goals for the current reviewing drive, but I am concerned that the outcome of this non-review will be to put it back in the pool after the drive is over and let it continue to languish. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:38, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've been out of the loop for too long to say if it's couth to consider the review a non-review, but I know as a lay person, I had questions about the comprehensiveness of the lede as well as some of the phrasing ("intuitively") and the fact that the first reference doesn't show up until the fifth paragraph (counting the three in the block). So yes, I agree that this definitely needs a review that looks at the article vis-a-vis the GA criteria. That being said, I felt my eyes glazing over before I reached the end of the discussion of the planes, so I wouldn't be competent to give a review if a new review became needed. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:50, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! This is already more useful for improvement than the review. —David Eppstein (talk) 01:23, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I’m willing to take over the review if no one more competent than me can (i’m not great at math stuff) IntentionallyDense (talk) 00:49, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Of course it's my first review, anything can be better, and I went on a wikibreak due to rapid edit conflicts. I'll give a more detailed review later. Electrou (formerly Susbush) (talk) 18:39, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To be blunt: it is not merely a case of "could be better": this review clearly paid no heed to our norms or explicit written guidelines for GAN reviews. An attempt was not properly made. Remsense ‥ 论 18:42, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@David Eppstein What did you just say! You called me a "new editor". Excuse me, I have 500+ edits, I took wikibreak due to rapid edit conflicts. I even gave you the response, look at the message above. Electrou (formerly Susbush) (talk) 18:41, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You are inexperienced by GAN standards, and given your apparent ignorance of those standards, this characterization is what you probably want, rather than the alternative being "experienced but clearly negligent". Remsense ‥ 论 18:46, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It appears I didn't read the GA standards. I'm just not very good at reviewing, trying to get help Electrou (formerly Susbush) (talk) 18:48, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Before any of this continues, I'd like to drop a quick reminder of WP:BITE. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 18:44, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If they claim themselves not to be a new editor, I would presume they would like to hear an unvarnished appraisal of their conduct. Remsense ‥ 论 18:47, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

With an account only two months old and only 462 edits in mainspace, I would like to gently advise Electrou that they are, indeed, very new and inexperienced by Wikipedia standards, and would do well to thoroughly read and understand the guidelines for any focused activity here, whether that be reviewing GA nominations or requesting advanced permissions. ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 00:42, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ClaudineChionh shut up, I have 855+ edits it we count all namespaces, I'll thoroughly review the policies and guidelines. Electrou (formerly Susbush) (talk) 02:17, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For your first reading assignment: never speak to another editor like that ever again. I'm not an administrator, but I wouldn't blame any admin who blocked you the next time you told another editor to "shut up". Remsense ‥ 论 02:22, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Remsense bro I'm not reading a very long policy Electrou (formerly Susbush) (talk) 11:08, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Then stop wasting everyone else's time pretending you want to improve. You do not. Remsense ‥ 论 11:10, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Remsense bro what does that even mean Electrou (formerly Susbush) (talk) 11:21, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I genuinely do hope things go well and you get advice that helps you, but the things I am saying do not seem to be helping, so I'm disengaging from this conversation. Remsense ‥ 论 11:31, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I got a new message on my talk page saying to AGF (assume good faith). Electrou (formerly Susbush) (talk) 01:39, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

civility is one of our 5 pillars and it is expected that all editors, new or not, understand and adhere to it. ... sawyer * he/they * talk 11:12, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

462 edits is better than the average newcomer Electrou (formerly Susbush) (talk) 02:19, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per the link to policy above: experienced editors are trying in good faith to give you advice. You need to change your attitude considerably: stop arguing with them as if you would know better or as if you have some impressive reputation you have to defend—you do not. Remsense ‥ 论 02:56, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Remsense bro, have you read the good faith policy or it's related policies, the reason why I said "shut up" is because they called me "very new", but I have 855 total edits and 462 mainspace edits. That's literally better than the average newcomer with 10 edits. Do you actually understand who is a newcomer and who isn't? A newcomer is an editor with 10 edits (autoconfirmed). Electrou (formerly Susbush) (talk) 10:47, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Electrou, while you are indeed past the threshold of "new" used to identify autoconfirmed editors, 462 mainspace edits does not mean that you are a seasoned and experienced editor with a firm grasp of Wikipedia and Wikimedia policies, guidelines, and manuals of style. When choosing to review articles at the GA level, at least a basic understanding of the expectations should be shown.

Also, Remsense is correct that your decision to tell another editor to "shut up" is unconstructive; people are trying to advise you, help you learn, and you are rebuffing them in a manner that will only cause offense and alienate them. Continued personal attacks and combative behaviour could readily lead to a block. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 11:03, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bro, have you read the civility policy that Remsense helpfully pointed out to you? And sure, you have made more edits than most casual visitors to Wikipedia ever make, but constantly showing off your edit count, especially in a discussion that's supposed to be about improving article quality, is giving the rest of us a poor impression of you. — ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 11:04, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I hope you reconsider and take my advice above: frankly, I would expect a block sooner rather than later if you continue with your present attitude, and there's no use in me mincing words about that. Remsense ‥ 论 11:07, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

R.I.P. Now I'm going to get blocked (just a chance). Atleast most of them are only for a few days (like 2). And editors are giving me advice, so the more I listen to it, the less chance of getting blocked. I'll try to thoroughly review the policies and guidelines. Sorry for the rude "shut up". Electrou (formerly Susbush) (talk) 11:12, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like I have started a conflict, or possibly a war. Electrou (formerly Susbush) (talk) 11:23, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Backlog drive candidate: Talk:John Holder (umpire)/GA1

asilvering, this strikes me as an ideal candidate for the backlog drive, despite the fact that a review is open, because it badly needs a reviewer: the original reviewer hasn't been back since their last post on June 22 despite being pinged and as far as I can tell, it's the nominator's first GAN. Can there be an arrangement for backlog drive credit for whoever takes it over? It would be a shame if a review abandoned for over three months couldn't be taken over and completed in the two weeks remaining in the drive. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:42, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll add it to the list, with a note. -- asilvering (talk) 02:13, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Scoring system

Hello, I just wanted to drop in and say that I think the bonus point system (2500 words=1 point) is way better than the bonus system used in the July 2024 drive (.5 points for every 2000 words in a single article), and I would be supportive of it being the system used in future drives. Kimikel (talk) 04:18, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA passed without spot check

I just came across two GA reviews, from this month and July, that did not have spot checks. Is the proper procedure here to list the articles for GAR? voorts (talk/contributions) 04:06, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW, no comment on the specific GAs, but I feel the messaging that we have to do spot checks now has not been made very clear to people who don't do a lot of GAs. PARAKANYAA (talk) 04:57, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Despite this being raised a few times in the last few years, the reviewing instructions still skip over the actual reviewing part of reviewing. Ironically, the spot check is the only part of the review process that is mentioned. I maintain that we need an overhaul of the "how to review" aspect, but my starting point is still gathering dust. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 05:08, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Voorts both of those were my reviews, so I'll just clarify that admittedly I entirely forgot to add the spot-check when reviewing these. I will at least verify that the sourcing information on the articles was accurate from the sources I looked at in-depth during the other parts of the review process (For both Delibird and Geno I had to double check that several sources were reliable or not, or if they were verifying the correct content or not, for various reasons, and I saw no outward issues with sourcing when giving the article an overview.)

I'll do some retroactive spot-checks later for verifiability's sake, and I'll coordinate with the nominator of both of the reviews (@Captain Galaxy) if I notice anything amiss. Preferably I'd appreciate if I could just handle this editorially with the nom so we don't have to go through the lengthy GAR process, especially since the nom is not at fault here, and I wouldn't want to put them through that due to a mistake on my part. It's an easy enough mistake to rectify, so I'd appreciate if this could be handled in a less complicated manner than what has been suggested. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 16:45, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you looked at sources in-depth to check whether they verified the content, isn't that a spot check? Thebiguglyalien (talk) 17:32, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Thebiguglyalien In a sense. I just forgot to actually put down the formal process and directly tell them which sources I had looked at and verified. I am not sure if that qualifies or not, especially since it's not down on record. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 17:35, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]