Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Visual novels/2009
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Tears to Tiara; fan translation patches
I was looking at Tears to Tiara earlier, and seeing that a new contributor called Jorian Drake added some information on a fan translation patch, I decided to revert it and mentioned that it would be fancruft. He however reverted my edit and posted a note on the talk page, and also cited a few articles relating to the issue, such as Civilization IV, and Hot Coffee minigame controversy (NSFW). As far as I know though, Hot Coffee is notable as it has generated Rockstar Games quite a lot of issues (and notability for the article). Now, as I remember this was brought up before and that if the patch is not notable it should not be included. If someone would like to, please go ahead and reply to him, as I don't really feel like doing so. -- クラウド６６８ 05:02, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
- I added a general note about the copyright and notability of the translation. If the editor still doesn't budge, I'll take it to WT:VG.--十八 05:20, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
- The translation doesn't have to be notable to be mentioned in the article, but only has to rise to the lower standard of being verifiable through the use of a reliable source. I've removed the links to the translator's website, as we generally don't link to sites that violate copyright, and replaced them with a link to Encubed, which is a reliable source for this sort of thing. — PyTom (talk) 06:00, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
- Pytom has a point here. Notability applied to the articles, not the sites. The only two things that apply here are WP:V and WP:COPYRIGHT. Posting this links is a form of verification that the patch is in English, just as we would post to the an offical site for an offical translation. The issue of whether it violates copyright law is unclear as long as the link does not contain a link to the game itself. However, it may also fall under the third paragraph of WP:COPYRIGHT#Linking to copyrighted works since context can argued that the context of the patch is encyclopedic given offical translations are noted, and that the patch itself into english, given the relatively few visual novel translations by its nature makes it notable.じんない 06:16, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
- The new (encubed) link doesn't even link to the patch, which means we should no longer have WP:COPYRIGHT concerns. — PyTom (talk) 06:28, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
- Pytom has a point here. Notability applied to the articles, not the sites. The only two things that apply here are WP:V and WP:COPYRIGHT. Posting this links is a form of verification that the patch is in English, just as we would post to the an offical site for an offical translation. The issue of whether it violates copyright law is unclear as long as the link does not contain a link to the game itself. However, it may also fall under the third paragraph of WP:COPYRIGHT#Linking to copyrighted works since context can argued that the context of the patch is encyclopedic given offical translations are noted, and that the patch itself into english, given the relatively few visual novel translations by its nature makes it notable.じんない 06:16, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
- The translation doesn't have to be notable to be mentioned in the article, but only has to rise to the lower standard of being verifiable through the use of a reliable source. I've removed the links to the translator's website, as we generally don't link to sites that violate copyright, and replaced them with a link to Encubed, which is a reliable source for this sort of thing. — PyTom (talk) 06:00, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
Categorization
Alright, that brings back the topic from above, should we include fan translations in the category which as of yet we have no clue whether to rename or not? -- クラウド６６８ 22:33, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
- Well, there was consensus that something needed to be done, just not what.じんない 00:11, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
Popotan GAN
After a lengthy informal review by Cloud, and some subsequent edits, I have put Popotan up for GAN.じんない 00:45, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
- There are still quite a few things that I don't think is really satisfying, but good luck with it. By the way, perhaps you should archive the talk page there, with all the large sections? -- クラウド６６８ 03:21, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
Character Mini-games
Popotan has 2 mini-games unrelated to the VN for it. However, these are specifically centered around 1 character. Should I put these on the character page, VN page, or both? Currently the primary information is on the VN page and lesser info is on the character page.じんない 21:24, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
- Well, I would say they belong under the gameplay section. You should probably add a sentence or two describing them, and how to access them, in the case it's unlocked. -- クラウド６６８ 05:49, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
- Well they're not part of the game. They're wholely seperate games accessed (formerly) by going a website. Furthermore, they are not affiliated with the visual novel at all, except for having a character in them.じんない 14:44, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
- I would say you should add it to the character list in that case. You should probably summarize it in a few sentences and add it to the end of the section, similar to Characters of Final Fantasy XII (that is also a GA for some reason, though it shouldn't probably given the sources), although I wouldn't make it a separate paragraph. -- クラウド６６８ 18:28, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
- So just put it in the character page then?じんない 00:33, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah, that may work as something for real world perspective. -- クラウド６６８ 01:08, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
- Alright, done. Should I add anything to the visual novel game in the lead, like a sentence describing their existence or just leave it entirely for the character page? I ask because it's not a usual circumstance that a character gets their own mini-game that is unrelated to the main game.じんない 01:17, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
- Eh, I don't really see that as that uncommon. Well, I won't add it to the lead if it's me, I don't really have much of a reason for that though. -- クラウド６６８ 02:28, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
- More games by far than not don't get games based around indivisual characters not included in a compliation disk or something (like a fan-disc). They aren't rare, but nor are they common either.じんない 02:31, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
- Eh, I don't really see that as that uncommon. Well, I won't add it to the lead if it's me, I don't really have much of a reason for that though. -- クラウド６６８ 02:28, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
- Alright, done. Should I add anything to the visual novel game in the lead, like a sentence describing their existence or just leave it entirely for the character page? I ask because it's not a usual circumstance that a character gets their own mini-game that is unrelated to the main game.じんない 01:17, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah, that may work as something for real world perspective. -- クラウド６６８ 01:08, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
- So just put it in the character page then?じんない 00:33, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
- I would say you should add it to the character list in that case. You should probably summarize it in a few sentences and add it to the end of the section, similar to Characters of Final Fantasy XII (that is also a GA for some reason, though it shouldn't probably given the sources), although I wouldn't make it a separate paragraph. -- クラウド６６８ 18:28, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
- Well they're not part of the game. They're wholely seperate games accessed (formerly) by going a website. Furthermore, they are not affiliated with the visual novel at all, except for having a character in them.じんない 14:44, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Bishōjo game vandalism
Can anyone here watch it? This article is being ip vandalized. There is a 3-hour ip ban, but I'm not sure that'll hold because they were quite insistent in undoing my reverts.じんない 02:24, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Coordinators' working group
Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.
All designated project coordinators are invited to join this working group. If your project hasn't formally designated any editors as coordinators, but you are someone who regularly deals with coordination tasks in the project, please feel free to join as well. — Delievered by §hepBot (Disable) on behalf of the WikiProject coordinators' working group at 06:57, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
FACs
I am wondering if we shouldn't perhaps coordinate together to get at least one of our GA articles to a FA.じんない 02:26, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
- Juhachi mentioned that he wants to work a few of the Key articles up to FA a while back (I guess we all have at least once envisioned those to be FA). He even did a nice job expanding Clannad's development section, but wherever that idea went. Guess it's just kind of like how I am not doing much around here anymore. By the way, congratulations on promoting Popotan to GA. -- クラウド６６８ 02:49, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
- If we could, we'd probably have the best bet with Popotan (congrats, btw), Air and Clannad since they all have a lot of content and the latter two were promoted relatively not that long ago. The idea to expand Clannad's development section was halted after I stopped translating the fan book, since I've been doing other things. Maybe I could over the summer...--十八 02:52, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks. But yea, Popotan was too recently promoted while I think it may have some issues, specifically with development. I'd like to find some interviews with the staff members on their works, but so far I've only found 2 websites which just list they worked on them.じんない 02:58, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
- It took me a while to find good interviews for the Key articles; the fan books released for the games were a big help, but most of the content from them has yet to be translated. And yes I DO still want to write a Nagisa Furukawa article some day. As long as I can find a good amount of reception, everything else will fall into place a la Ayu Tsukimiya.--十八 03:04, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
- I would like to see a day where you can find a decent amount of non-SPS reception and interviews too, but that's not happening. -- クラウド６６８ 03:13, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
- Well I at least finally was able to get a way to verify that Popotan was the origin of a popular internet meme which is a monumental accomplishment as per the talk page.
- I think though my lack of finding interviews may be partially due to my lack of overall Japanese language knowledge. Sadly they aren't in German where I might at least have a better chance.じんない 03:31, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
- There's a Popotan visual fan book which contains an interview with the main staff. The shop that I have linked no longer has it in stock, but I guess if you have the money and can find it, you can go ahead and buy it. -- クラウド６６８ 03:49, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
- The money really isn't the problem. The problem is finding someone who will ship to the states. That was the problem I ran into with the aquiring Tsukibako.
- EDIT: May have found 1 place. I'm going to look around some more. Sad thing is even if I find it, I'll probably have to ask someone else to translate the interview.じんない 04:20, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
- I also know there are interviews on a promotional DVD, but don't know if those are character interviews or personal interviews.じんない 04:28, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
- There's a Popotan visual fan book which contains an interview with the main staff. The shop that I have linked no longer has it in stock, but I guess if you have the money and can find it, you can go ahead and buy it. -- クラウド６６８ 03:49, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
- I would like to see a day where you can find a decent amount of non-SPS reception and interviews too, but that's not happening. -- クラウド６６８ 03:13, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
- It took me a while to find good interviews for the Key articles; the fan books released for the games were a big help, but most of the content from them has yet to be translated. And yes I DO still want to write a Nagisa Furukawa article some day. As long as I can find a good amount of reception, everything else will fall into place a la Ayu Tsukimiya.--十八 03:04, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks. But yea, Popotan was too recently promoted while I think it may have some issues, specifically with development. I'd like to find some interviews with the staff members on their works, but so far I've only found 2 websites which just list they worked on them.じんない 02:58, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
- If we could, we'd probably have the best bet with Popotan (congrats, btw), Air and Clannad since they all have a lot of content and the latter two were promoted relatively not that long ago. The idea to expand Clannad's development section was halted after I stopped translating the fan book, since I've been doing other things. Maybe I could over the summer...--十八 02:52, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
The DVD contains about 3 to 4 minutes of (never mind, that's the promotion video) seiyū interview. Also, to save you some money if you are buying it, there are used ones cheaper than that on Amazon Japan. For shipping, usually I would use Shopping Mall Japan (just ordered Key 10th Memorial Fes Anniversary pamphlet through them), they charge quite a bit however. -- クラウド６６８ 04:55, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
- Yea, I was trying to find a service that didn't charge an arm and leg for certain items based on the cost alone. None of the places I found charge really reasonable prices (ie entire S&H cost for them, plus a reasonable fee for the amount of work). It's based more on the value of the items.じんない 05:07, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
- But yes, that's why I don't think Popotan should be going atm as I know it is lacking in completeness. It possibly also needs to be copyedited for better grammar. The GAC review stated my usage was correct, but not the best.じんない 06:11, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
Erogescape - is it still considered a RS
Erogamescape - given that part of the reason it was considered reliable was based upon ANN being reliable source, that was recently changed for their encyclopedia entries of any type.じんない 03:34, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
- Well, in defense, the main reason that ANN was removed largely as reliable was due to the fact that users could update and alter the content on the individual pages (much like a wiki), but this is not the case at ErogameScape.--十八 03:52, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
- Okay, I was just checking to make certain.じんない 04:54, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Erogamescape scores
Are the median (中央値) scores for the site reliable?陣内Jinnai 05:53, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
- No, I think those are based on user-submitted scores (well, I think). -- クラウド６６８ 05:57, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
- Alright, if there is any doubt, we shouldn't use them. However, we probably should add the site to our resources list, with mention on stuff like the scores which ins't reliable.陣内Jinnai 05:58, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah, the median scores are complied by user-generated reviews.--十八 06:05, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
- Alright, if there is any doubt, we shouldn't use them. However, we probably should add the site to our resources list, with mention on stuff like the scores which ins't reliable.陣内Jinnai 05:58, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Game-Style
I was reading some of the news posted on Moonphase, and for some reason happened to have clicked into one of the links, which turns out to be a news post on Game-Style. It appears that the site focus on PC games (bishōjo games included), and also has an editorial and company backing. So, I am wondering if the site would qualify as a reliable source (which I think most likely it does, given what I've read), since I've already found some content of the site useful. -- クラウド６６８ 02:54, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- Looks to be as reliable as ASCII Media Works, and is even cited as being in the top 10 for sites with adult-related content in Japan (according to Alexa...as of March 2008). They also appear to be in conjunction with Edge Records, which even link back to them on their website. Plus, finding interviews like these seem promising. Further, they have a related site Girls-Style to cover otome games.--十八 07:59, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Discussion to rename a template
The template {{Anime games}} is within our scope and listed on our page under the templates section. Looking at this template, I am perplexed at it's name, especially when the template title is "Dating sims and visual novels", and when none of its content even remotely is involved with anime, especially when most of all games under this task force's scope never get an anime adaptation, let alone any other adaptation. The only connect back to "anime" would be the drawing style I guess, but the same could be said for manga or light novels, and even then, the style in which the art in visual novels is drawn is always more detailed and more well drawn than the typical stuff we see in anime. I am also confused at the related category Category:Anime game stubs, especially when using anime and game in the same sentence is confusing enough. Now, I realize that "visual novel" is not a blanket term to be used in the template's linked articles, as not all dōjin soft or eroge are visual novels, for one, and dating sims are technically not visual novels either. But then again, the template is now called "anime games", and there's no way content like eroge and dōjin soft would be in that template now if the person who created it wasn't thinking of them in terms of visual novels or visual novel-like games. So considering the name of this task force, how about renaming the template and category to {{Visual novels}} and Category:Visual novel stubs. Anything else that is currently in Category:Anime game stubs that cannot be transferred to Category:Visual novel stubs should just go in Category:Video game stubs or some related sub-category.--十八 08:26, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- Thus revive the discussion last year, eh? I am not really sure if renaming them to Visual novel would really be the best thing to do. Seeing that all of the dating sims, visual novels, and what not can all be encompassed into bishōjo games and otome games, I am thinking perhaps we should instead split them into two categories/templates instead of forcing these into two? But, of course, if that seems unreasonable, we could by all means go with renaming them to Visual novels. -- クラウド６６８ 16:05, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- Yea, I remember that discussion. If we go with visual novels we end up with stuff like Casual Romance Club under this and its clearly not in any way a "novel". It's just as bad as "anime game". We really do need to split this into multiple groups. Last year I think it was Otome games, and Bishōjo games and Eroge games with the possibility of eroge overalpping the other two. It was considered the most accurtate, but it has the problem of being split up the most (we had those 3 because a few games like Yo-Jin-Bo which is under our scope would not fit into either otome or bishōjo. I do understand our TF is "Visual Novels", but at the same time a similar discussion was brought up at WT:VG about the naming there dealing with computers. IMO we shouldn't swap 1 naming scheme for another that is just as bad (anime games is kinda relevant in that the style is anime-ish, just as visual novel is kinda relevant in that of TF is that and some of the stuff under our scope is VNs).
If you want to want to go with dividing it into 2 seperate ones for dating sims and visual novels, that's also fine.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Jinnai (talk • contribs)- If anything, I really don't think a term like "anime games" is helpful at all. "Anime" implies moving pictures, for one, and most of what a visual novel is consists of static character images and CGs; very few games even have animated sequences akin to anime. In the end, the end-all-be-all terms would be "dating sim" and "visual novel" (as anything else would be outside of our scope), so (and I fear I'm actually repeating my exact words from the previous discussion) everything under our scope can fit into one of these two classifications. Granted, we have a loop-hole as the last point in our scope: Other visual novel-like games such as sound novels, dating sims, and kinetic novels, which serves to broaden our scope, but not outside of what this task force was created for. What I mean is, we keep out scope the way it is, and I would also like to see the implementation of moving Category:H games to Category:Eroge, as the term "H game" redirects to Eroge, and therefore we can be consistent in our definitions. We can then categorize a game as either a dating sim or visual novel, and then sub-classify it as an Otome game, Bishōjo game, or Eroge.
- Lastly (and back to my original discussion), I am not exactly keen on splitting up "dating sim" and "visual novel" as they should both be under our scope. The trouble has arisen when we start classifying the whole lot under a non-expansive term like "visual novel". In the end, I'd be fine with naming {{Anime games}} as {{Dating sims and visual novels}} after the current template title, if all else fails. It doesn't help when Anime game redirects to List of video games based on anime or manga which is completely out of our scope.--十八 02:08, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
- As you've said, "anime games" is too unclear as a term, though {{Dating sims and visual novels}} is probably also too rash (not sure if that's the right word). I think perhaps what we should do is to
maybe categorize it as otome or bishōjo game (or neither), eroge or not, and then dating sim and/or visual novel (in no particular order)do exactly what you've said. This will probably leave no space for {{Anime games}}, and will probably also get confusing, but I think (in my humble opinion) it categorizes the articles in an orderly manner. -- クラウド６６８ 04:59, 4 June 2009 (UTC)- {{Dating sims and visual novels}} sounds imo the best. Although its long-winded, it is the most accurate without splitting in into 2 seperate categories. Then subclassify them underOtome game, Bishōjo game, and/or Eroge as they may be both eroge and bishōjo at the same time.陣内Jinnai 17:27, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
- There's not really a reason to merge the two together. First, like you said, it's long, and second, it feels just like it's being forced together. The two could work independently, so why not just having them as two categories, as opposed to having a single, long one? -- クラウド６６８ 18:49, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
- It's not that we don't already have two separate categories for dating sims and visual novels, but splitting up the template, to me, wouldn't make much sense since the content in the current {{Anime games}} template covers both dating sims and visual novels. Meaning, it would be redundant to have two templates which basically have the same exact articles. It's not exactly forcing the two together, especially when the terms "dating sim" and "visual novel" have such an interchangeable connotation to western fans, and if we didn't plan on working on both, then we'd have to remove dating sims from this task force entirely, and I don't think anyone would agree to that. The problem is we don't have an accurate blanket term to apply to both dating sims and visual novels, so this is the next best option.--十八 00:44, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
- Meh, either one. Anime games should go as the Naruto games could be described as anime games.陣内Jinnai 22:38, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
- It's not that we don't already have two separate categories for dating sims and visual novels, but splitting up the template, to me, wouldn't make much sense since the content in the current {{Anime games}} template covers both dating sims and visual novels. Meaning, it would be redundant to have two templates which basically have the same exact articles. It's not exactly forcing the two together, especially when the terms "dating sim" and "visual novel" have such an interchangeable connotation to western fans, and if we didn't plan on working on both, then we'd have to remove dating sims from this task force entirely, and I don't think anyone would agree to that. The problem is we don't have an accurate blanket term to apply to both dating sims and visual novels, so this is the next best option.--十八 00:44, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
- There's not really a reason to merge the two together. First, like you said, it's long, and second, it feels just like it's being forced together. The two could work independently, so why not just having them as two categories, as opposed to having a single, long one? -- クラウド６６８ 18:49, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
- {{Dating sims and visual novels}} sounds imo the best. Although its long-winded, it is the most accurate without splitting in into 2 seperate categories. Then subclassify them underOtome game, Bishōjo game, and/or Eroge as they may be both eroge and bishōjo at the same time.陣内Jinnai 17:27, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
- As you've said, "anime games" is too unclear as a term, though {{Dating sims and visual novels}} is probably also too rash (not sure if that's the right word). I think perhaps what we should do is to
- Yea, I remember that discussion. If we go with visual novels we end up with stuff like Casual Romance Club under this and its clearly not in any way a "novel". It's just as bad as "anime game". We really do need to split this into multiple groups. Last year I think it was Otome games, and Bishōjo games and Eroge games with the possibility of eroge overalpping the other two. It was considered the most accurtate, but it has the problem of being split up the most (we had those 3 because a few games like Yo-Jin-Bo which is under our scope would not fit into either otome or bishōjo. I do understand our TF is "Visual Novels", but at the same time a similar discussion was brought up at WT:VG about the naming there dealing with computers. IMO we shouldn't swap 1 naming scheme for another that is just as bad (anime games is kinda relevant in that the style is anime-ish, just as visual novel is kinda relevant in that of TF is that and some of the stuff under our scope is VNs).
Alright, so the template is now located at {{Dating sims and visual novels}} and the related stub category for {{visual-novel-stub}} has been created. Now to move Category:H games to Category:Eroge.--十八 06:32, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
expanding our scope
The above discussion has me thinking if we should maybe expand our scope to cover stuff like Princess Maker, Brave Soul and/or Persona 4. I am not sure about why the original intention was to encompass dating sims, but not games with a prominent dating sim mechanism to them. As for PM, it is, broadly defined, the kind of game that would fall under the generally similar audience type for visual novels and dating sims.陣内Jinnai 01:07, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
- Actually, there's nothing precluding games with a prominent dating mechanism; what we do preclude is Games with dating-sim elements, but do not focus on that element. as written at the bottom of our scope. A dating sim-like game is just as good as a visual novel-like game IMO.--十八 02:13, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
- This may actually also be a good time to discuss this. Obviously visual novels fall under our scope. But then there's a lot of RPGs that feature a visual novel gameplay mechanism (and by that I mean a speech system in which the player's prominent character look at characters face-to-face unlike the likes of Final Fantasy VII or
what Maeda playsStar Ocean: The Last Hope), such as games like Tears to Tiara (which I think only has a battle mechanism outside of the visual novel-style gameplay) or The Idolmaster (not an RPG, but outside of the auditions system it's plain visual novel). It's really unclear as to what extent the scope covers. Would any game that has even a tad bit of such system fall under the scope, or is the line somewhere beyond that? -- クラウド６６８ 05:18, 4 June 2009 (UTC)- I feel any game which uses a visual novel-like system extensively, and uses it as a primary means of progressing a story, makes it within our scope. However, I also feel that a story must be told as in a regular novel for it to qualify as a "visual" novel. Everything else is going to be dating sim or dating sim-like, and a bunch of games have added RPG elements into it to expand the gameplay, so I don't think that's a problem at all.--十八 06:13, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
- Would a game then like Rune Factory be covered under our scope as the progression of the relationships is presented in a format typical of a visual novel, but it also has fighting and farming elements as well. Sometimes the fighting can progress the story, but mostly the interaction with the characters does. Rune Factory 2 is even more heavily tied with this as their are a lot of miniquests. All the romantic boosting is based upon it as well.陣内Jinnai 17:24, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
- I think it would be fine to expand our scope to games like that. No need to split hairs when it can become more confusing to do so.--十八 00:39, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
- How best to clarify something like that so we don't get scope creep?陣内Jinnai 22:39, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
- "Games which use visual novel- or dating sim-like features to progress the story, but also have additional elements of gameplay akin to RPGs (or the like) are within the scope." Or something like that.--十八 00:45, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
- How best to clarify something like that so we don't get scope creep?陣内Jinnai 22:39, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
- I think it would be fine to expand our scope to games like that. No need to split hairs when it can become more confusing to do so.--十八 00:39, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
- Would a game then like Rune Factory be covered under our scope as the progression of the relationships is presented in a format typical of a visual novel, but it also has fighting and farming elements as well. Sometimes the fighting can progress the story, but mostly the interaction with the characters does. Rune Factory 2 is even more heavily tied with this as their are a lot of miniquests. All the romantic boosting is based upon it as well.陣内Jinnai 17:24, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
- I feel any game which uses a visual novel-like system extensively, and uses it as a primary means of progressing a story, makes it within our scope. However, I also feel that a story must be told as in a regular novel for it to qualify as a "visual" novel. Everything else is going to be dating sim or dating sim-like, and a bunch of games have added RPG elements into it to expand the gameplay, so I don't think that's a problem at all.--十八 06:13, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
- This may actually also be a good time to discuss this. Obviously visual novels fall under our scope. But then there's a lot of RPGs that feature a visual novel gameplay mechanism (and by that I mean a speech system in which the player's prominent character look at characters face-to-face unlike the likes of Final Fantasy VII or
Added that text with light editing, including an example (as it may be unclear on its own). For the section outside our scope I reworded that and added FFVII due to the small dating sequence in it that can be affected by choices, but which is ultimately not the purpose of the game. Thousand Arms might just be outside our scope, Games which use visual novel- or dating sim-like features to progress the story, but also have additional elements of gameplay akin to RPGs (or the like) are within the scope. The dating-sim is a key part of the game, but ultimately it has no bearing on the game other than powering yourself up.
Before we go adding any new RPGs or the like, how much of the storyline needs to be affected. Persona 3 FE, has the social links which can open up and alter events in minor ways such as new people to talk to, but the ending (assuming you don't die) is made by the typical choose path A or B at the end. Persona 4's ending is a bit more complex, but ultimately similar ending. So do we want the threshold for non-visual novles (or closely related ones like kenetic novels) to require sine impact on the storyline, ie they aren't just for power ups ultimately?陣内Jinnai 13:28, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Shuffle! GAR
This needs some help as there are multiple issues. I'm not too familiar with the game or some of the sources. Also, their has been a contentment of visual-novels.net as a RS.陣内Jinnai 17:51, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Just curious about something...
Is there a reason WP:VN links to this task force, but WT:VN doesn't link to this page?陣内Jinnai 01:07, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
- Have been wondering about that too for some time now. I guess it's just no one has bothered to even mention about that until now. -- クラウド６６８ 05:58, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
- Check any of the task forces under this project; all of the shortcuts start with WP, never WT. Not to mention that this task force originally began as WikiProject Visual novels, but was merged into WP:VG.--十八 06:14, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
- I think he was asking why WT:VN doesn't link to this page, as in the Wikipedia Talk namespace. _dk (talk) 08:19, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
- Yea, that's what I'm asking.陣内Jinnai 19:42, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
- Oh that, well, no one got around to creating one I guess, like Cloud said.--十八 00:52, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- Normally a link shouldn't need to be created to the talk page. A link should automatically be created based upon the name space, even for redirects.陣内Jinnai 01:34, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- That's not true; redirects don't just spontaneously come into existence, unless a bot is written to do that job, but these talk page redirects were all created by users.--十八 02:23, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- Weird because I could have sworn it worked with another wiki talk sub-page I created. Oh well, the point is kinda moot though.陣内Jinnai 02:34, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- That's not true; redirects don't just spontaneously come into existence, unless a bot is written to do that job, but these talk page redirects were all created by users.--十八 02:23, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- Normally a link shouldn't need to be created to the talk page. A link should automatically be created based upon the name space, even for redirects.陣内Jinnai 01:34, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- Oh that, well, no one got around to creating one I guess, like Cloud said.--十八 00:52, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- Yea, that's what I'm asking.陣内Jinnai 19:42, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
- I think he was asking why WT:VN doesn't link to this page, as in the Wikipedia Talk namespace. _dk (talk) 08:19, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
- Check any of the task forces under this project; all of the shortcuts start with WP, never WT. Not to mention that this task force originally began as WikiProject Visual novels, but was merged into WP:VG.--十八 06:14, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Getting some materials
I should be getting the Fanbook and fandisk for Popotan soon so I can go ahead and cite the plot/gameplay information as well as look to see about the interview with Akio Watanabe. For the latter I may need someone to translate it. Know where I could find someone to do so?陣内Jinnai 20:36, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
A-class
I know none of the articles are FA-class atm. Since WP:VG does A-class assessments, anyone think any of our GA articles might be worthy of A-class assessment?陣内Jinnai 20:37, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
- Personally, I've never really bothered with A-class. To me, it makes more sense to just go for FA if you're going to go through trying to get an article up to A since the differences between an A and an FA are minor. As for potentiality, Kanon, Clannad and Popotan would be the best choices.--十八 00:04, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
Fan Disc info
I finally got a hold of Popotan's fan disc so I was able to review its content exactly (i knew somewhat what it was like beforehand, but not enough to write about it). Where would that info be put in the article? In a sequals section? Related media? Should I describe it's plot and gameplay elements? None of the visual novels really have info on any fan discs I can find. Even looking at general video game articles, other than ones that have notable expansions, I can't find any way to deal with something similar that's FA quality. Best example I can find is One: Kagayaku Kisetsu e and that title is very old before GA standards were raised.陣内Jinnai 20:58, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
List of Popotan soundtracks peer review
I put up the soundtrack article for a peer review and could use some more input as the issues with the article are rather complex and multi-layered.
I may bring this up before the main VG project if i need more input.陣内Jinnai 20:59, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Task force "blessed" definition of a VN's "planner"?
I'm sure everyone has seen either "企画原作" or "企画原案" in the credits of a visual novel. To me, I would look at it as draft/original concept but this never seems to crop up in VN articles. "Planner" or "head of planning" seems to be the word of choice. Is this the accepted definition of this term? Would it be appropriate to list the person as the 'designer' in {{Infobox VG}}? --Remy Suen (talk) 22:20, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
- "企画" also means "design", so we could start calling them the "designer" instead; it seems really up to the editor right now since whoever planned the project means they probably also designed it.--十八 23:56, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Looks like we have someone determined to add excessive plot and also thinks that size of the prose alone is enough to warrant a seperate article for KT. I placed a merge for the article some time ago to give a chance for people to find some relevance to needing a seperate article, ie reviews or impact, but no one has come forth and was planning to merge it in another month or so.
If someone wants to help educate the user why prose alone doesn't guarantee a separate article, please come help.陣内Jinnai 23:20, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Which image should be used in the infobox? The limited edition's cover or the regular edition's cover?
What is the general consensus on this topic if both editions are released on the same day? I would say the regular edition's cover should be used since it is the "standard". I tried surfing around but it seems most of the VN articles I selected either didn't use the game as the infobox image or the two editions were not released on the same day. Thoughts? Thanks. --Remy Suen (talk) 15:26, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
- Generally, whatever is uploaded first. If you want to dispute that one, I'd say you'd have to show that one is more well known by independant WP:RSes than the other.陣内Jinnai 20:59, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
- It's more on a case-by-case basis it seems, as there's never been a real guideline for it, other than just generally going with what was uploaded first as Jinnai said. Discussing it on the article's talk page would also be recommended.--十八 22:37, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
The list (which i added to our TF since the main article is a part of it) is being condiered for merge (and probably cutting info) on the main WikiProject talk page along with others.
- See its listing here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Character lists
- Discussion here: Wikipedia talk:VG#Cleaning up list of character articles
I'm not saying whether this should or should not be merged, but am giving a heads up in case anyone wants to discuss it.
While it's not under our scope it may interest some of you to know List of Sakura Wars characters is also on that list. (Might be within the scope after clarification for stuff like Rune Factory) as well as a few others that are clearly not, but still have the dating sim/visual novel elements.陣内Jinnai 19:34, 20 December 2009 (UTC)