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Northern Kurdistan

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Beshogur, why do you describe referring to Turkish Kurdistan by its name as POV-pushing? Konli17 (talk) 21:44, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The official name is Ayn al-Arab and it is under Assad/russian control. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Peacetowikied (talk • contribs) 04:43, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And Paradise Chronicle ussed sockpuppets to move this page name to "Kobani" Peacetowikied (talk) 04:51, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Konli, your zeal to kurdify everything in Syria, Turkey, Iraq and Iran is pathetic. Refer to the Kurdistan map in the Treaty of Sevres, that's where Kurdistan stops. Turkey is Turkey, not Turkish Kurdistan. Even Ocalan has given up this nationalist propaganda. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 05:43, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Beshogur? Konli17 (talk) 12:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Konli do a reply user tag. If you not know how search on Google. Shadow4dark (talk) 18:57, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Pharaoh17, why do you describe referring to Turkish Kurdistan by its name as POV-pushing? Konli17 (talk) 10:55, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Because the population fled to TURKEY. What does Turkish Kurdistan have to do with this?! The population fled from one country to another. Turkish Kurdistan does not have even have specific borders. You just will not stop your POV editing. Thepharoah17 (talk) 11:06, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's relevant because Kurdish people were seeking refuge in another part of Kurdistan. The Turkish Kurdistan article already says it's in Turkey. Konli17 (talk) 11:26, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • On a related note, Konli17 and Thepharoah17, stop the slow motion edit war and hash this out here before making further edits. I've restored the infobox title as Kobanî because the edit where that was changed seems to have been done without seeking consensus [1], and despite a prior explicit consensus for the article to be named Kobanî. I've set the lead to also be back as it was before Konli17's contested edits. I'm honestly fine with whatever consensus people come to over this issue, but the edit warring needs to stop. Further edits to the lead or infobox related to this matter before you've come to a resolution on the talk page will be met with blocks. signed, Rosguill talk 15:21, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have fully protected the page for one week. El_C 15:24, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Pharaoh17, have you any problem with describing either Kobani or the YPG as Kurdish-majority? Konli17 (talk) 15:32, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Pharoah17? Konli17 (talk) 09:11, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Lol you both are "17"Peacetowikied (talk) 20:21, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Rosguill, I reckon progress could be better. Konli17 (talk) 20:23, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Konli, replacing Turkey by Turkish Kurdistan is clearly POV pushing, especially when it comes from someone line you, hardly neutral, and ready to start an edit war on every page related to Kurds. As ThePharoah17 said, Kurdistan is not well defined, and just claiming any area with some Kurdish presence as Kurdistan is not something acceptable for an encyclopedia. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 20:59, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Konli17, just going by the source currently cited in the lead [2], it says that people fled to "Turkey", not Turkish Kurdistan. While I understand that it's likely that they fled to Kurdish-majority regions in Turkey, you're going to need to provide additional reliable sources that specifically state this, otherwise we'd be engaging in original research, which is a nonstarter. signed, Rosguill talk 21:09, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's a fair point, Rosguill. But my edit that was reverted was pretty wide-ranging, so I'd like to know first if there were any other parts that anyone found objectionable that we have to thrash out here. Konli17 (talk) 23:38, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
None at all? Then I can restore the entire edit bar the TK part which we can debate here. Konli17 (talk) 23:05, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Rosguill:, you should check his other edits as well. Most of them are OR and POV-pushing, I reported him several times, although not action was taken. here, he is manipulating the source as well. Although the sources explicitly tell that the operation is against ISIS, he is changing it to "taking advantage of the retreat of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant". Beshogur (talk) 09:59, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 16 December 2020

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved—clear consensus against (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 21:33, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Kobanî → Ayn al-Arab – As per official name Shadow4dark (talk) 17:25, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Similair discussion, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Cyprus_Turkish_Peace_Force_Command#Requested_move_3_November_2020 Shadow4dark (talk) 17:29, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. You just read my mind LOL. I was just preparing this: I already know the counterargument, WP:COMMONNAME. But why is it a common name? Because of some war between ISIS and a PKK-linked militia. That is why we should change the name from its official name to a name used by the Kurds. That indicates that it is a politically charged name. Wikipedia should not be a propaganda website. Maybe that is why the Syrian Kurdistan page is a black hole. Since when do we change official names of towns on Wikipedia just because of a war? That war is long gone anyway, and ISIS is now a shrivel of what it once was. Kobani does not mean anything anyway. It just means company in German after the German railroad company that built a railway around the town in 1911. Even its Ottoman Turkish name Arap Pınar is a translation of its Arabic name, Spring of the Arabs. And yes, all Western media use the name 'Kobani.' But all Turkish websites (Arabic is not an official language in Turkey) use the name Ayn-al Arab: [3] [4] [5]. In addition there are some other websites that use that name: [6] [7] [8]. Something you need to realize too which ties into the Syrian Kurdistan debate is that Syria is not like other countries with large Kurdish majorities like Iraq, Iran, and Turkey. Syria is an Arabic speaking country. There are areas in Syria that have a Kurdish majority but there is not a contiguous area of Kurdish settlement such as those seen in the other three countries. There are three pockets in northern Syria with a Kurdish majority: in the west near Afrin, one in the middle near Ayn al-Arab (Kobani), and one near Qamishli in the northeast. The name on Open Street Map is Ayn al-Arab. Thepharoah17 (talk) 17:52, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The name Ayn al-Arab also matches with the Ayn al-Arab Subdistrict and Ayn al-Arab District. Thepharoah17 (talk) 04:02, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thepharoah17, this district rationale is less compelling when I click on the articles and see that you have systematically scrubbed the name "Kobani" from both of them only 2 days prior (seen here --> 1, 2, 3, and 4, and 5) to recommending these as an example.  Redthoreau -- (talk) 06:27, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Sarilho1. The only adjustment that could be justified is dropping the accented î, since the spelling in English-language sources is either Kobani or Kobane. The following is a --> 2019 article on that spelling debate if interested.  Redthoreau -- (talk) 06:09, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Here are some RECENT news articles for you (although not so much news on the town any more):
  • Xinhua: The Syrian army on Wednesday entered the symbolically important Kurdish-held town of Ayn al-Arab in northern Syria
  • Middle East Monitor: In the province of Al-Hasakah, Raqqa, Manbij and Ayn al-Arab (Kobani)
  • Reuters: howitzer shells were launched at the Ayn al-Arab, or Kobani region...
  • CBS News: smoke rises from the Syrian town of Ayn al-Arab, known as Kobani by the Kurds, ...
  • The Jerusalem Post: That includes Camp Taji and Ayn al-Arab, key bases the US has used.
  • Modern Diplomacy: The convoy is mainly heading for the base of Ayn al-Arab, north-east of Aleppo,... Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 03:45, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
عمرو بن كلثوم Indeed you can find certain soures for the name "Ayn al-arab" however they are very rare compared to the much more common "Kobani," it is however a semi-common name for the city it is however a more minor usage of the term, we already make clear the city is often called Ayn al-Arab, however it is more rare. We don't use official names, and even as an official name the ANNES controls the city which they usually refer to the city as Kobani. Ayn-al Arab is also an extremely POV pushing name, the city is majority Kurdish most of its residents refer to it as "Koabni." The name "Ayn-al Arab" was specifically created to try "arabize" the Ayn Al-arab and is usually used by extremely specific pro-Arab, anti-Kurdish political groups, usually in the opposition or Assad. As oppose to Kobani which has more support over a broader base and again being the much more common name. Vallee01 (talk) 07:18, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: "Kobani" gets over 2 million hits on Google, "Ayn al-Arab" only 146,000. The same is true for academic sources; searching on Google Scholar, one gets 377 hits for "Ayn al-Arab" and over 3,000 for "Kobani". It is quite clear which name is more common. Applodion (talk) 09:12, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Two things first of, the de facto control of Kobani is of the ANNES who usually refer to as Kobani, we use common name we don't use official name, as an example we don't call Japan the "empire of Japan". Moreover the majority of people who live in Kobani refer to the city as Kobani, per common name there is no justification for renaming the article. The vast, vast majority of sources refer to the city as Kobani. Vallee01 (talk) 07:02, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose — "Kobani" is the common name, per the academic sources discussed at Talk:Syrian Kurdistan. For example, Allsopp & van Wilgenburg (2019), The Kurds of Northern Syria: Governance, Diversity and Conflicts, Bloomsbury, [9] specifically addresses this right at the beginning, p. xiv: ... However, common spellings are employed to promote ease of understanding. The spelling 'Kobani', based on the Kurdish name for the city and surrounding region, came into widespread usage during the siege on the city and is used in this book. It has also been spelt Kobane, and Kubani and referred to by its Arabic name, Ayn al-'Arab. Levivich harass/hound 21:24, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. The textbook definition for WP:COMMONNAME. So much so, that it could be used as a future example of why the policy exists.  Redthoreau -- (talk) 06:03, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Ayn al-Arab is the real official name for the town, its also the name used by the UN [10] --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 09:49, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If you search for Kobane or Kobani you can see UN makes use of those names too (e.g. [11] or [12], with the last stating "Some 170,000 civilians have fled from Kobane in Syria, also called Ayn al-Arab"). Your report is simply cherry-picking. - Sarilho1 (talk) 16:55, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This suggestion is contrary to every policy we have. WP:COMMONNAME and WP:UE both apply, and the common English name is Kobani. What is more, the local name is also Kobani as the city is predominantly Kurdish. Imposing the name preferred by the regime in Damascus over both English usage and local usage would be absurd. Jeppiz (talk) 16:58, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, Ayn al-Arab is the town's official name. It really is that simple. However it should strongly be noted that Kobani is the more common name used by the Kurdish majority. However for Wikipedia to purposefully refuse to privilege the town's legal and official name would really be to be entirely non-neutral and excessively POV. Preferring Kobani is a political choice. If the town's official name is changed to Kobani then the article should be renamed accordingly, but since it's currently Ayn al-Arab Wikipedia must be non-biased and reflect that. The fact that Kobani is an extremely common name is without question. The fact that a significant portion of its population uses that name is also without question. But the town's official legal name is Ayn al-Arab, and its usage is widespread in academic discourse. The UN uses it, it's all across the literature as well [13]. KJS ml343x (talk) 02:13, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
KJS ml343x, of note, WP:COMMONNAME explicitly states that our concern is not for “official” classifications. Germany is officially “Deutschland”, but not titled as such, since it is not the common term for the English-speaking world. For instance, Kobani is probably the only city that your average American can name in Syria (even more so than Damascus or Aleppo) based on its notoriety from the defeat of ISIS there, so to equate Ayn al-arab as being just as known is laughable. Alongside that, until there is a final resolution to the war in Syria, any previously “official” status from a state not in full control of the city is largely irrelevant.  Redthoreau -- (talk) 06:54, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Badh Rajbana

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Google the name of Kobani, the preview of the Wikipedia page of Kobani with this name will be shown: Badh Rajbana. Why? Awatpouri (talk) 00:01, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 11 December 2023

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) — mw (talk) (contribs) 12:26, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kobanî → Kobani – Kobani is more common and solely uses letters found in the WP:ENGLISH alphabet. Aintabli (talk) 19:15, 11 December 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 06:29, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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