Talk:*Fraujaz

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On 1 August 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from Fraujaz to *Fraujaz. The result of the discussion was moved.

[edit]

the title (Frauwaz) is debatable. I tried to keep it in line with our de facto conventions of transcribing Proto-Germanic on Wikipedia. I suppose it could also be frawwa-, frawja or frauja-. I am still struggling to separate the etymologies of frea and freo (friend, free). The confusion of the two stems seems to run very deep. --dab (𒁳) 12:57, 30 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Gerhard Köbler, Gotisches Wörterbuch (1989) ISBN 9789004091283 [1]

PIE *prowo- "front"

fraujaz: Goth. frauja "lord"
- fraujan: Goth. *fraujis: PN Froigundia, Froila, Froiliuba, Froisendus, Frojulfus

PIE *preu- "leap"

frawaz: Goth. fraus, German froh "happy, glad", PN Frawitta, Froarius

PIE *prī-

frīja Goth. freis "free, dear"
- frījōn Goth. frijōn "to love"
- frījōnds Goth. frijōndi "friend"

--dab (𒁳) 13:15, 30 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Several terms need to be taken into account. I list below the key primary derivaties as taken from Orel's Handbook:

Gmc *frawaz adj.: ON frár "swift", ME adv. frow "hurriedly", OFris fré "glad, happy", OS frá id., OHG fró id.

Orel posits a connection to Avestan fravi- "mobile" < IE *prōuos. Osthoff connects to Sanskrit pravate "to spring up" < IE *pleu-.

Gmc *fraw(j)ōn sb.m.: Goth frauja "lord, master", ON theon. Freyr, OE freá "lord, master", OFris frá id., OS fróho, fráho, fróio id., OHG fró id.

Orel, following Streitberg (as well as Osthoff), derives this from IE *pro- "forward". Mikkola connects to Slavic *pravo "right, law". Marstrander considers it to be a compound close to Sanskrit pra-avati "to be merciful". Torp-Falk derives it directly from Gmc *frawaz. Langenhove also sees it as a compound, but derived from IE *per- "to possess" and IE *Heu- "vital force". Porkony connects to IE *pṝuo- "first".

Gmc *frawjōn sb.f.: ON freya "lady", Freyja (name of goddess), OS frúa id., OHG frouwa id.

Orel derives this directly from *fraw(j)ōn, though he posits *frōwōn as the immediate predecessor of OS frúa "lady, mistress".

Gmc *frijađwō sb.f.: Goth fri(j)aþwa "love", OE freóðo "peace".

Orel finds this to be identical to Late Sanskrit priyatva- "being dear, being beloved", and sees a further connection to *frijaz. Feist also sees OE fríod as being equivalent to Sanskrit priyátā "love". Mayerhofer rejects the comparisons with Sanskrit.

Gmc *frijaz adj.: Goth freis "free", OE freó id., OFris frí id., MLG vrí id., OHG frí id.

Orel connects the term to Sanskrit priyá- "own, dear, beloved", Avestan fryō id., Slavic *prijati "to be disposed, to favor". Froehde, and Torp-Falk following him, connects to Latin prīuus "single, each, private". Arbois de Jubaunville sees it as a Celtic loanword. Wood derives from IE *pro-ei- "to go forward".

Gmc *frijjō sb.f.: ON theon. Frigg, OHG theon. Frija.

Orel sees this as the substantivized feminine of *frijaz with Verschärfung, and as identical to Sanskrit fem. priyā "own, dear, beloved", Avestan fryā id.

There are, of course, many other words in this family which are quite interesting when seen in this context, but I'll leave those out for now.

Thoughts? Comments? Ideas for getting the Fraujaz/Frijjō/Frigg/Freyja overlap issue straightened out? --Aryaman (talk) 15:39, 17 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

*Pri- as root agreed=[edit]

I think it all comes from

PIE *prī-

- with a cognate Slavic root for friendship, love, closeness (sprzyjać/przyjaźń, przyjaciel in Polish).

The (deliberate?) confusion or merge must run deep indeed. Zezen (talk) 10:12, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Walhaz which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 13:46, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]