Talk:Carlos Hathcock

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Biography (Rated B-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 
WikiProject Vietnam (Rated C-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is part of WikiProject Vietnam, an attempt to create a comprehensive, neutral, and accurate representation of Vietnam on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Military history (Rated C-Class)
MILHIST This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
C This article has been rated as C-Class on the quality assessment scale.
WikiProject Firearms (Rated Deferred-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Firearms, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of firearms on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Symbol question.svg Deferred  This article has been rated as Deferred-Class on the project's quality scale.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
 

Why?[edit]

Why is it that Hathcock has so caught the interest of people? He isn't the sniper out there with the highest tally, by far. He doesn't even have the highest tally among US snipers in VIETNAM...but still, he is the one everyone talk about or refer to. 85.230.45.221 (talk) 19:42, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Probably because he was mentioned first and was known as the Top Sniper for so long. I remember reading Henderson's book about him 25 years ago, he was the Guest of Honor at my first Marine Corps Ball, and when Ward's book came out listing Chuck with more confirmed kills, I (and many others) thought it was a typo. That and his legacy to the USMC Sniper community with establishing the first non-wartime Scout/Sniper school gave him his fame.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 21:12, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
Mentioned first by who? I can see him aiding in the Scout/Sniper school being relevant...but, everyone always refer to those 93 confirmed kills...Simo Häyhä had over 500. In less than 100 days, in temperatures rainging from -20 to -40 C, using a rifle without a scope. And for some reason, this man is barely even talked about. I'm not disparaging Hathcock, but by comparison, Häyhä should be a GOD to snipers... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.230.47.111 (talk) 23:43, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Charles Henderson's book in 1986, for one. Yes, there have been other stories of other Snipers, but for whatever reason, Hathcock's was the most compelling and for lack of a better term, complete. From the "record of 93" (which we now know was bested while he was still active) to his injuries saving the other Marines, to using the .50 BMG and the book coming out at a time when there was an audience for it. Hathcock was a legend in the Corps and there was and has been more coverage of Hathcock than just about any other Sniper in the US press/media ever since. Not only were the books about his career, but about his early life and even his legacy. It's a bit like the controversy over the radio, Tesla may have come up with it first, but Marconi gets the credit. I can look at other articles on wiki and make similar arguments, often the difference between coverage of two topics in the same vein is the amount of significant and reliable sources of one over another.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 19:08, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

It's not just about confirmed kills! Thousands of kills were not confirmed in the war, since confirmation required the witness of an officer. The greatest snipers often worked far out in the boonies, alone or with only their enlisted spotter. The true greatest were those who took the most difficult shots and faced the most harrowing risks to get the shot - not the most prolific that could be witnessed by officers. The only reason Carlos's four day crawl-in to kill an NVA general got confirmed was because a US officer was put on a hidden observation hill, by helicopter, specifically to watch for and hopefully witness the general's death; because it was so important. They picked CH for the kill, because the NVA/VC were terrified of him; they had a better idea of how many he actually killed than the Americans did. Also, according to the information in Henderson's first book about CH, the interest and respect CH received from so many people has even more to do with the more personal factors: First, CH's extreme courage and determination were displayed when he continued in the Corps after being horrifically burned while saving others in Nam. Thereafter, when he would shoot at the range he would end with bleeding hands, arms and sometimes torso due to the delicate skin/scar tissue that covered most of his body. He collapsed more than once. He was ill with MS, but pushed on. Second, he was considered not just a great sniper, but a truly exceptional instructor, which when it comes to building a true and lasting legacy, is more important. Thus he became the first Senior Sniper of the Marine Corp when the Corps-wide sniper program was established. (previously, snipers were taught at independent sniper schools.) It was as an exceptional man, not just a sniper, that CH was so admirable. I'm not positive how to cite sources, I hope I got it right. Info came from the book: [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.200.66.198 (talk) 17:24, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

his son is C.H. III, but he's not a Jr?[edit]

His name is Carlos Hathcock (no middle name given), but his son's name is given as Carlos Norman Hathcock III. Is this a mistake; should one of them be named Junior? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.121.180.109 (talk) 17:35, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

His Father deliberately named him Carlos Hathcock the Second, not Junior. A parent can chose to make that distinction on a birth certificate. He probably intended not just to have a son named for himself, but to instill a sense of lineage and establish it as a family tradition, which many cultures cherish more than Americans. Also, being named third does not necessarily mean your father was second. A grandchild or much later child can be named 'the second' or 'the third.' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.200.66.198 (talk) 15:50, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Range discrepancy[edit]

"Legacy" and "Weapons" contradict each other on the units of Hathcock's longest shot.

" telescopic sight at a range of 2,500 yd (2,286 m), taking down a single Vietcong guerilla." vs "record for the longest confirmed kill at 2,286 yards".

Can anyone find the correct number and update appropriately?

MAGZine (talk) 21:57, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm quite sure it's 2,500 yd (2,286 m), as on the Longest recorded sniper kills, after all I think they confused meters (2,286 m) for yards. I'll modify it, but it's just conjectures. --Amendola90 (talk) 19:48, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Quotation[edit]

“It was a one in a million shot. I could probably shoot a whole box of ammunition and never hit him again."

The above quotation (text box on this Wiki page) is word-for-word identical to that used by Staff Sgt Jim Gilliland here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/1506760/Sniper-shot-that-took-out-an-insurgent-killer-from-three-quarters-of-a-mile.html

Coincidence? Using same words? Reference? 74.198.164.143 (talk) 15:13, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

I've pulled this for the present and haven't seen attribution to Hathcock anywhere yet.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► 15:35, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
    • ^ Henderson, Charles. Marine Sniper/93 confirmed Kills.Stein and Day. Berkley edition. 1988. print