Talk:Ivy Valentine

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Good articleIvy Valentine has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
November 14, 2009Good article nomineeListed

Untitled[edit]

Moved as per Wikipedia:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/2006-12-21_Street_Fighter_character_articles and Talk:E. Honda - But is there any way to apply the history from the old article name Isabella "Ivy" Valentine to this one?

Gameplay[edit]

Okay, this is pretty much just like the old character analysis section from before. I'm removing these for the same reason people from before deleted the character analysis section. If you want to find out why, check out Taki's and Kilik's talk pages. If people want a strategy guide, they should go to fansites. Mythmonster2 (talk) 06:23, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

wielding Soul Calibur?[edit]

So...does this mean that 1 of Ivy's weapons will be Soul Calibur? ♥, Ivyluv (talk) 14:12, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Her ultimate weapon in 4 is confirmed to be Soul Calibur.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 14:38, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Any pictures? ♥, Ivyluv (talk) 17:38, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

None that I've seen. Only recent images even involving her were people taking shots of the customization modes with the characters stripped down to their underwear :\--Kung Fu Man (talk) 17:45, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

nice...anyway any articles on the web where i can find this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ivyluv (talk • contribs) 18:29, 26 July 2008 (UTC) Bold text[reply]

Reference 36[edit]

Reference 36 appears to be mis-used in the caption, as it doesn't refer to "the developers admitted they felt they had "overdone it a little" in regards to the size of her breasts" at all. It talks about the pixel count and comparisons between the PS3 and PSP versions, no mention of the quoted text. This will need to be resolved before the GA review. MasterOfHisOwnDomain (talk) 19:25, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's actually not on the Joystiq page, but on the text of the flyer in Japanese.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 20:48, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I had an inclination this may have been the case, but whose translation skills are we relying on here? Is there not a translated version accompanied by explanatory text somewhere? I'm sure this wouldn't count as a reliable source. MasterOfHisOwnDomain (talk) 20:51, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well I could change it from a direct quote but either way the result is the same: they stated they felt they overdid it. Many items around wikipedia cite Japanese sources without an issue of translation, and like this few such sources actually have translations, otherwise those translations would've been cited. Would rephrasing it without the quote suffice?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 20:58, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No I don't think it would, that's not really my issue. You could make a note on the reference that it is a translation of the japanese poster rather than in the source. MasterOfHisOwnDomain (talk) 17:22, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done. How's that?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 19:15, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That's better, although the quote wasn't really a big issue for me, if that's what is actually contained in the text. But I leave it at your disgression of course. MasterOfHisOwnDomain (talk) 21:21, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Ivy (Soulcalibur)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Wizardman 22:03, 13 November 2009 (UTC) Overall it's a very nice article. Nice to see fiction articles given the treatment they deserve as oppose to being redirected into oblivion. I just have one issue with the article though:[reply]

  • The fair use rationales, mainly for the two issues in the body, need improvement. Saying it's just for discussion doesn't cut it, note that it's vital to understand the concept and creation or something like that.

I'll put this on hold and pass upon completion of that. Wizardman 22:03, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've gone through and added more in-depth fair-use rationale for each image. Does this suffice?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 16:18, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yup, looks much better. Article passed. Wizardman 22:30, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Citing a source for Lani Minella[edit]

On Lani Minella's official website, click on the message that says "click for full credits page". You will get Lani's PDF resume which acknowledges Ivy and her specified game appearances (found on page 1, under ANIMATION & CD ROM). Homechallenge55 (talk) 18:50, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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External links modified[edit]

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GA issues[edit]

I think this article is currently falling short of WP:GACR:

  • Some MOS:INUNIVERSE prose, especially in the second paragraph of the intro. In which game(s) did the described events happen? Do they happen in the game itself, or are they given as backstory in the game? This is partially answered later in the "In video games" section
  • I'm skeptical of the fair use rationale of the second image (the character designs for alternate costumes). Does it really meet the "Contextual significance" criterion at WP:NFCC?
  • Some WP:NPOV issues with claims like Since her introduction, Ivy has been well received, considered both an attractive and strong female character by various sources. and Reception of the character's sex appeal has been mostly positive, though with a share of criticism as well as her design evolved through the series.. At the very least, these are lacking some needed subtlety. Based on the sources cited, it seems like reception is mostly positive among gaming fans and game journalists, but not so among other commentators.
  • The first 3 paragraphs of the reception section read like a laundry list of listicles that have included the character. I think we need more context for the reader, and fewer examples. Colin M (talk) 19:13, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'd argue the lists are fine, most of them are quoted actual reception towards the character and not just there for the sake of lists. The statements you say are 'NPOV' are also supported by those 'lists' themselves, with even journalists offering differing views in them. I will agree those they can be rewritten in a way to make them more subtle.
As for the concept art the character's designs differ so greatly between the hypersexualized regular outfit and the more subdued standard one a more clear example of such helps the reader understand that. Regarding the rest, I think that can be ironed out with a bit of a copyedit.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 19:21, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hey Kung Fu Man, thanks for the quick response!
Regarding the list articles, one issue is that in many cases they seem like pretty clear "clickbait", so their status as WP:RS is questionable. Many of them don't even have authorship information. For example, this one seems to have no author. This one is just "By Promotions". At best, these lists could be said to show that the character has name recognition or is a fan favourite, but I don't think we need to name and quote extensively from so many clickbait lists.
Regarding the image, I'm far from an expert on WP:NFCC, but my general understanding is that it's interpreted quite strictly. Keep in mind, the "Contextual significance" criterion says Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the article topic (emphasis added). I won't dispute that the image significantly increases readers' understanding of Ivy's alternate in-game costumes. But the topic of the article is Ivy Valentine, and her alternate costumes are a fairly small aspect of that overall topic, so I don't think the argument would pass muster. Colin M (talk) 23:10, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Both GameDaily and GamesSpy fall under reliable sources per WP:VG/S as long as the articles are by staff themselves (vs say Kotaku where the author cited is more a factor than the site itself), so those should be fine. As long as there's something to quote in there while they alone won't satsify WP:N per a discussion currently going on in WT:VG the consensus seems to be lists are still fine as long as there's something to quote from them and the source is reliable. Now that may shift with more discussion but in the context of character articles I think it'll be fine for now when buffered with additional stronger discussions as is the case here.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 23:37, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As for the concept art part of the character's reception does also mention the secondary outfits as being a bit of a contrast, and there's no free use alternative we can utilize here: any promotional items or cosplays of the character have been done using the primary outfits. It might be a stretch but the sheer contrast between the images in this case does seem to warrant a visible image for better understanding of that aspect.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 23:35, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Deleting every listicle from Reception[edit]

Can we agree to delete every single listicle from this article's reception section? None of them serve an encyclopedic purpose, and serve only to artificially provide the appearance of notability, see WP:REFBOMB. A statement from some article or another that Ivy is a popular character is more than sufficient. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 10:29, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but I would like to ask that we hold off until I can get to it. I'm currently working through the article as is and would like to go through said references on by one along with adding the new ones I've found.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 14:02, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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