Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games

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viewtalkeditchanges

New WikiProject Video Games logo?[edit]

Revision 1[edit]

Since joining the WikiProject, I've felt like our logo was horribly outdated. The current File:Gamepad.svg is nearly a decade old and I figured I'd try to make a more modern iteration for our project.

I apologize for hosting these on imgur, but I didn't want to go through the process of uploading a bunch of images to Wikipedia only for just a few to be used. I've narrowed it down to the two choices based on my personal preferences and the feedback of a few of my friends: "Light Gray/Grey" or "Green".

Anyway, here are my designs: http://imgur.com/a/n4lKq

The top two are the normal icon which would appear on Talk pages, etc. The bottom two are a potential header for the project, or can really go anywhere on the main page if we want. All fonts are free to use, the shape of the Xbox 360 controller (upon which this is based off of) isn't copyrighted by Microsoft, and can't be, and the usage of the Wikipedia "W" is allowed under their trademark policies. Also, I made these in Adobe Illustrator, so it's very easy to make them SVGs.

Feedback is appreciated! Thanks, --Nicereddy (talk) 23:42, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

  • I like the modern simplistic look. I was wondering what it would look like in place of the current icon, so I did a small mockup. It might be useful to have other mockups as well, to see what it will look like in place: http://imgur.com/3o5QNE9 I have to say it doesn't look quite as good scaled down to 28 pixels. Perhaps a scaled version right from illustrator would be a bit sharper. --Odie5533 (talk) 00:11, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Can we get a peek at other colors? ☺ · Salvidrim! ·  00:19, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
  • I prefer to current logo. I don't see a reason to change from a rather iconic gamepad image to a more modern one. In addition, using a particular current gen controller silhouette feels biasy to me. Why not Wiimote or Dual Shock? I also don't think the X360 silhouette clearly conveys a controller image, especially once shrunk to 28 px. The current logo with buttons and cable (Even if cables are becoming less common) conveys better. -- ferret (talk) 00:22, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
    • I originally thought about doing an NES controller, but I felt that that would somewhat defeat the purpose of "modernizing" the logo, it was also somewhat difficult to make it work with some sort of designation that it was related to the WikiProject. I realize that's not necessary, but I wanted to try to include it in the design. As for bias, I can assure you that it wasn't chosen for that reason. I chose an Xbox controller because it was the first I saw that was easy to make a vector and also add Wikipedia iconography to. I also felt like it was representative of the general "modern controller", as it seems to be the most commonly used controller on PC (and obviously Xbox). I'm not exactly a fan of Microsoft or Xbox, and I don't think the controller is necessarily evocative of any bias by our project. To be fair, the same argument could be made toward the current SNES controller we have as the logo. --Nicereddy (talk) 00:58, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
  • I'm partial to File:Video game controller icon designed by Joe Harrison.svg. Iconic at all sizes, looks less like a spaceship, etc. I thought I brought this topic up before, but I could only find the task force logo talk in the archives. czar  00:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
    • I really like that, my only concern being that it may be too simple? --Nicereddy (talk) 00:58, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
  • I like the idea of switching it up, but I have a problem with each of these ideas. Nicereddy, I think the "W" circle in your logos is way too small considering how small the logos will be displayed. (I'd prefer a sans-serif font, myself, but that might look a little Wario-y.) As for Joe Harrison's logo, it doesn't look that professionally designed, while using a Wiimote or DualShock seems like it'd project preference toward one company. What I'd most like to see is a sleeker version of our current logo, but tailored toward an actual GameCube/Xbox/DualShock-style generic controller rather than its current Saturn-like state. Tezero (talk) 01:03, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Prefer original - more easily readable at all sizes. - hahnchen 02:09, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Compared to the above alternatives, I do not like them more than the current one. Not only do I think the logo based on the Xbox controller is too simple (it's basically just a silhouette), but I also don't particularly like the design of said controller either (at least in comparison to Sixaxis). I wouldn't agree to using the Sixaxis instead, though, since I believe the logo should be as neutral as possible, even if the current one looks similar to File:SNES-SFAM-Controllers.jpg (though with enough differences to keep it neutral).-- 02:43, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
I agree, we need to keep it as platform neutral as possible. And my opinion is keep the current image. - X201 (talk) 08:55, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
Perhaps redraw your own unique Controller with the edition of Wikipedia "W" on it. I don't like the current one but its the most nuetral one out there. i suggest going for an oval shape, i havent seen an oval-shaped controller, with a D-pad and a set of buttons. You could possibly switch the D pad and button setup as most controllers have the D-pad on the left with the set of buttons on the right. Lucia Black (talk) 10:58, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
Actually, the Game Cube had an oval-shaped controller. Maybe if we make a controller shaped like the Wikipedia W? Anything I can think of looks really weird, but I think that's got a lot of potential. Supernerd11 :D Firemind ^_^ Pokedex 11:30, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

If you put a silhouette of the gamecube, it will not be oval shape. I'm talking about it oval shape completely. I don't know what you're seeing. Lucia Black (talk) 11:39, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

I apologize, it's the Wii Classic controller that's the oval. Supernerd11 :D Firemind ^_^ Pokedex 12:19, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
Wii Classic controller, used to play Game Cube games.
I see, it looks good. or we can just go with but there are so many styles that have been taken that its hard to make something completely original. the only orignality i can think of is mirror the button and slap a "W" on it. Lucia Black (talk) 20:57, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Revision 2[edit]

WikiProject Video Games Controller Logo Revised 2014 - Big.svg

Based on feedback I've received, I've re-done it with a design that's easier to see at small resolutions. See the image to the right.

Thoughts, @Odie5533, @Salvidrim!, @Czar, @Ferret, @Tezero, @Hahnchen?

--Nicereddy (talk) 02:40, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Joe's
Maico's - I prefer this over Joe's - hahnchen 15:37, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
  • I prefer anything over the current logo (ugly gradient and why does the controller even have that top bump), but I still prefer Joe Harrison's (right). There's another variant on the image's page. czar  02:50, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
  • I'm great with Nicereddy's new logo. Nice job. Tezero (talk) 02:58, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Unfortunately, imgur's blocked by the censors bastards high-and-mighties admins who run the network I'm on, but between the two to the side, I prefer Joe's: It's simple enough to scale up and down easily, the black on white is easy to customize if need be (i.e. a colorful new barnstar), but still distinctive enough for our project. Nicereddy's is these too (but to a slightly lesser extent), but I prefer Joe's. Supernerd11 :D Firemind ^_^ Pokedex 04:12, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
  • I think Nice's new logo feels fresher, and it doesn't have any particular console-bias. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 12:57, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
  • I like the new version of Nicereddy better than the original mock-ups this thread started with. I'm still partial to the existing logo, but I prefer Nicereddy's to Joe Harrison's. From the idea of a platform bias, Joe's is clearly an NES controller in my eyes. -- ferret (talk) 13:24, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
    • Yes, but Nice's is a lot like the generic logos you see everywhere for video game-related stuff. Joe's, while being biased towards the NES, is much more unique. It shouldn't be too hard to modify it away from looking like a specific console controller, should the need arise. Supernerd11 :D Firemind ^_^ Pokedex 14:26, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
      • I'm not sure I can see your view point. They are both controller silhouettes with buttons/gamepad. One is lined and empty, with solid buttons, the other is filled, with empty buttons. I just don't see how Joe's can be viewed as unique (at all) and the other as too generic. -- ferret (talk) 14:46, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
      • I would agree with ferret here, although I am obviously biased. Joe's works because of its simplicity, something that I think would be ruined if we modified it too much to look less like an NES controller. Mine (and again, I am admittedly biased) is more modern, it includes the triggers - a staple of all current home and handheld video game consoles - as well as being wireless. It takes elements from multiple different current controller silhouettes, whilst keeping the button layout pretty simple. I personally believe that it's more representative of the current state of video games than Joe's, but also not over-complicating it with the thumb-sticks or "Start/Select" buttons. --Nicereddy (talk) 21:57, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
        • I was just thinking that Joe's, while not unique per se, is used a lot less in gaming conventions, YouTube shows, etc. The triggers are a nice touch on Nicereddy's design, not sure how I missed those before. However, after reading through some of the thoughts under Revision 3 below, a simplistic take might not be the best idea, so here's an idea: What if we make a collage (3X3 or 4X4 would probably work best) of various video game-related stuff (controllers (possibly incorporating in these designs and the old one as well), characters, etc) and then whited out parts in the middle to make the Wikipedia W? Supernerd11 :D Firemind ^_^ Pokedex 02:24, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
          • Interesting. One concern of mine there is copyright infringement, though I guess it's time that Happy Mustached Bosnian Man, Speedy the Sassy Armadillo, and Eustace Q. Hungry-Puff get their time in the spotlight. Tezero (talk) 02:55, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
            • @Supernerd11: I feel like this'd be too complicated, it wouldn't work very well at small sizes, which was the main problem with my first idea. --Nicereddy (talk) 04:02, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
  • I like this one, but why change the logo? I really like the one we have right now. It's colorful and fun :) → Call me Hahc21 16:21, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
    • @Hahc21: I myself am not a fan of "Change for the sake of change", but I like to think, and hope others would agree, that my logo is an improvement over the current iteration. The current logo is now just a few months short of being a decade(!) old, and very clearly reflects that. I made my logo gray as it's a neutral color, and wanted to discuss the logo itself instead of the color at first. However, I am absolutely open to changing it to another color if we can decide on what would be preferable.
    • The quality of our current logo is of course subjective, but I personally view it as an eyesore that should have been put out to pasture years ago. In the time most sites, companies, etc. would have refreshed multiple times we've yet to iterate upon what we have, and I don't think that can be attributed to the logo's quality. I think almost every design can be improved upon, and I try to treat everything with that mindset. Never sit still, never remain stagnant, never allow yourself to become apathetic. --Nicereddy (talk) 02:10, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
      • True, maybe my reason not to change is because it represents my generation of gamers, which were the same generation who kicked off the Wikiproject ten years ago. But against it are the new generation of gamers, the new trends in both console (and media) design. → Call me Hahc21 02:24, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
  • I like the idea of changing the logo; File:Gamepad.svg certainly looked dated about...three console generations ago. I like the design, but I'm not so sure on the simplicity of the colour choices. If we're trying to freshen things up and make the logo stand out, I'd suggest a darker grey/black colour for the body of the controller. To make the logo pop, I'd suggest colouring in the face buttons - maybe red, green and yellow? Not sure about the colour of the D-Pad - Nicereddy, can you do a few mock-ups retaining the shape but applying my suggestions for colour, one with a plain white D-Pad and another with a grey D-Pad? CR4ZE (tc) 14:27, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
Here's a 1-minute MS Paint job (don't judge me) of what I was thinking. CR4ZE (tc) 14:42, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Revision 3[edit]

Why the hell does it have to be a joypad? There are loads of other things it could be in order to represent video games. If we're going to have a discussion about changing the logo, lets have a discussion about really changing it, not about updating it to a slightly different version of what we already have. - X201 (talk) 08:59, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Well, a joypad's shape seems like the single shape most iconically tied to gaming. Do you have any suggestions for others? I suppose an arcade-style joystick in some ways rivals it, but that's a little biased toward older gaming generations. Tezero (talk) 12:59, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
You're still thinking controllers. There are loads of alternatives; we could have a generic console linked to a screen, we could have "Game Over" as text, we could have our own Space Invaders style blocky alien, we could have WP:VG in the style of a famous video game logo, we could have... there are loads of possibilities, If we're going to talk about changing it then lets do the job properly, decide if we're going to change it, and then choose from as wide a field as possible. - X201 (talk) 14:24, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
It would be hard to have that conversation without anyone first proposing ideas. If I can offer a suggestion for structuring this discussion, it'd be that we list a bunch of options and have a run-off. Otherwise this can go on and on without action. czar  20:28, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
I'm not sure whether this has come up or whether my opinion is worth much here, but why can't we have a PlayStation-Xbox-esqe controller? I think we need a relatively modern icon, and unless we're using the Nintendo DS or 3DS for inspiration, that shape of controller is the most iconic controller out there for modern mainstream gaming as far as I can tell. --ProtoDrake (talk) 21:19, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
I think my most recent revision is pretty similar to the current generation's DualShock/Xbox Controller/Wii U Pro Controller, albeit without thumbsticks. Is there anything you would want changed? My main issue with adding detail is that the details wouldn't be visible at smaller sizes. --Nicereddy (talk) 21:36, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
@Nicereddy:It wouldn't need to be high detail. To my eye, the logo you referred to just looked like a slightly warped version of the SNES/Super Famicom rather than a more recent gamepad, which is why I spoke up. I was thinking of having the logo a little smaller than our current one and at an angle: that way, we could show the controls and everything, but keep it low on detail. It's just a suggestion, and I tend to have a rather grand imagination. If it's too much, pay my suggestion no mind. --ProtoDrake (talk) 21:51, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
@ProtoDrake: To clarify, we're both talking about this controller, right? I can play around with its angle and see what works. --Nicereddy (talk) 22:06, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
@Nicereddy: Yes, that's it. --ProtoDrake (talk) 12:25, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
@X201: I think a gamepad is definitely the best way of handling this. We could do a Mario or Pac-Man sprite, or a spin-off of a current video game logo, but both of those invite an implication of bias. A video game console is hard to design without it looking like "just a rectangle" at smaller sizes or resembling a currently existent console. A controller is the most neutral and recognizable concept I can think of, and it's a lot easier to get the Project to accept a new logo using an already agreed-upon object than it would be to introduce something completely new. --Nicereddy (talk) 21:45, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
@ProtoDrake:, I agree with you. I mentioned that earlier, but you may have missed it as I phrased it "GameCube/Xbox/DualShock." Same basic idea. Basically, I want something that looks sleek and professional and isn't obviously tailored toward the work of one company. Tezero (talk) 22:30, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

I disagree with the initial design concept of having an ultra simplified image. Look at any other WikiProject logo and you will either see colourful photos or colourful drawings. Even the WikiProject Apple logo is more visually interesting. Not to mention that video games are a form of media first and foremost known for visual dynamics, having a really simplified logo is out of place. Wikipedia can always use more colour. Not that I disagree with the idea of a new logo, the old one certainly could be improved, but I think this is the wrong direction. Benach (talk) 01:39, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

@Benach: Personally, I disagree with the idea that WikiProject logos need to be colorful or complex. Look at WikiProject editor retention or WikiProject Sharks for example. I personally feel that the WP Apple logo is exactly opposite of what their logo should have been, as it contradicts the minimalist ideals of Apple as a company. The icon is fairly small in many cases, so details are not only unnecessary but completely impractical. This idea that our logo needs to be "flashy" or colorful is antithetical to the purpose of our logo. It should add to the content surrounding it, not take attention from it. Good design is design which you don't notice, it melts away in favor of the actual content. Logos for large video game companies tend to use a small palette of colors and simple shapes. For example: THQ, Valve, Nintendo, PlayStation, Steam, Origin, and EA. I don't think the logo needs to be complex simply because the medium it's representative of is. Movies are generally represented by a simple film strip, books are represented by an open book, and TV is represented by a simple analog "rabbit-ears" television. As such, I don't think the medium of video games needs a complex visual metaphor. --Nicereddy (talk) 03:00, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
Can we please just go and continue with Nicereddy's logo, making it the new WP:VG logo? We don't need debates for that. Mr*|(60nna) 03:25, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
The whole point of debate is so that things don't get changed on the whim of a single person. - X201 (talk) 11:20, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Commenting on this to make sure it doesn't get archived yet. I'm going to update it with color options as suggested by other users, then hopefully we can vote on which of my variations/Joe's logo we'd prefer. --Nicereddy (talk) 22:00, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Missed this originally, but I also am quite partial to the original logo, and don't think it needs to be changed. —Torchiest talkedits 22:31, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
Also missed this originally, but I don't really see a great need to change what we have. Using the Gravis PC GamePad as our logo beautifully blends PC and console gaming and avoids the project any hint of big name (Atari, Microsoft, Nintendo, Sega, Sony, etc., etc.) bias. Looking at the logos of our colleagues from other language editions of WP:VG we see that the logo we're using is by far the most common (19 of 32 WP:VGs; 20 if you count sv.wiki's obvious SNES controller) and I think this helps us gather under a common banner. For those who are curious, the lesser-used logos include 3 NES Maxes (from da., nl., and ja.wikis), 3 joysticks (Atari-WICO style in ar. and fr.wiki; generic in po.wiki), 2 PS3 bananarangs (pt. and th.wiki), 1 PSP (hi.wiki), 2 without any logo (no. and zh-yue.wiki), and only at uk.wiki do we see the kind of modern stylistic designs that are offered above (the logo's a whole battlestation setup at uk.wiki). So yeah I'd prefer to leave things as they are. But... if the majority favors changing then I also prefer Maico's logo (depicted above) - mainly because science shows that the SNES controller is the most aesthetically pleasant video game peripheral of all time. -Thibbs (talk) 23:25, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Charity bundle sale for possible VG sources books[edit]

There's a new bundle-like sale going on here [1] that includes the following e-books which some look like possible sources for various articles:

  • How to Do Things With Videogames - Ian Bogost
  • Atari Inc.: Business Is Fun - Marty Goldberg and Curt Vendel
  • SCROLL: Collection 01-11 - Ray Barnholt
  • Service Games: The Rise and Fall of Sega - Sam Pettus
  • Ghosts in the Machine - Lana Polansky and Brendan Keogh
  • The Gothic Tower & Assorted Interactive Fiction - Ryan Veeder
  • Boss Fight Books #1: EarthBound - Ken Baumann
  • Minecraft - Daniel Goldberg and Linus Larsson
  • The Final Hours of Portal 2 - Geoff Keighley

I do not know how well any of these (outside of the last one) would meet WP:RS guidelines, but I can see some possibly good titles here if they are. The entire bundle is $12 to unlock (the last 3 are the bonuses); the first 6 otherwise costs $3. --MASEM (t) 16:48, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Not an attack on you, but how do we know these would be reliable? Tezero (talk) 17:04, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
You'd have to look to see if the book is commented on elsewhere, or look at the bio of the author. This is why I'm confident on the last one, since Kieghley is an established journalist and author. --MASEM (t) 17:14, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
Anything that Ian Bogost writes is golden, even when he's slagging off games criticism. His review of Hundreds is one of the most scathing and condescending pieces of games criticism I've read.[2] His piece on Flappy Bird is the best breakdown of what that game, and in a sense, all games are.[3]
I've not read Baumann's book, but I was aware of the Kickstarter, and there's an excerpt at kotaku - it's a first person account of him playing the game, so while it you may consider Boss Fight Books a reliable (though very new) publisher, the source itself isn't that useful. - hahnchen 21:55, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
Bogost's Flappy Bird article is such crap, ignorant to the vast continuum of art games and players who are determined to take on more commercial or simple games like what he describes for more than their face value. Hell, I don't think he really understands the concept of players actually finishing games at all. But he's definitely a well-enough-established author. Tezero (talk) 22:06, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
Oh no, he gets art games. Check out A Slow Year, which comes with a CRT emulator to give it the right fuzzy look. But I also think he gets Flappy Bird, more so than most. - hahnchen 23:20, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
Both of Bogost's articles, especially his attempt to pretentiously dismiss the supposed pretentious players of an... iPhone game (Hundreds) just felt clumsy; it seemed like he looked at all the way overthought and overwrought articles about small, silly games like those Flappy Bird and decided to see if he could turn it up past 11- he says very little of substance, but takes forever to do so while meandering through sarcasm and supposed wit. He's certainly an RS, but if his book is anything like that I'm not sure you can get much actual information to cite out of it. Bauman's book, on the other hand, while narrow in scope, could be useful for citing the gameplay section of Earthbound... that's about it, though. --PresN 22:39, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
(almost 2 weeks late, but...) I have to agree with Hahnchen about Bogost. He's certainly worth citing and clearly an RS. How come all the charity events I go to only have romance novels as bundles? Good find, Masem. -Thibbs (talk) 22:27, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Nice find! I'm in for the full bundle. (And I wish I didn't miss this one.) Thanks for posting czar  02:31, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
    • I can definitely say right now, Pettus is NOT reliable. He's an Eidolon's Inn contributor, and they definitely don't do their research and fact-checking well. His book is self-published as well. Red Phoenix let's talk... 03:06, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

As a writer and fact checker for Retro Gamer magazine (among other magazines, sites, etc.), and a regular member of this group, I'm surprised there's a question on the reliability of my book (Atari Inc. - Business Is Fun) or that some of you wouldn't be familiar with me and my background. Both mine and my co-authors sites (atarihq and atarimuseum.com respectively) passed reliabile sources vettings here ages ago as well. Regardless here was our resource/reference and vetting process for that book. --Marty Goldberg (talk) 02:43, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Article clean up (Template code) - Bot Request.[edit]

Sorry this has taken a while. - I've finally made the request for a Bot to move the redundant fields from the 11,000+ articles that need it. The request is here. Not sure if they'll be able to take it on, but we'll find out. - X201 (talk) 08:20, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

I don't think it's worth saving in the hopes that WikiData may eventually scrape it, and then we'll later need to go through all the articles to remove the hidden template once WikiData has scraped it. Better to just delete the unused fields. If WikiData really thinks the information is worth digging for, it will still be available in the edit history. Additionally the hidden content would no longer be curated, and we'd have this old data hiding on the articles. So just remove the defunct fields entirely. --Odie5533 (talk) 08:31, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
Personally I'm not living on the hope of them eventually scraping it. After this bot operation is complete and WP:VG have got what we want. I'll push that we give WikiData 6 months to harvest the old data, or it gets deleted. We've already gone to the trouble of attempting to save it for them, the bot people will have the awkward task of writing a bot that will do the job, the least WikiData can do after that is harvest it promptly afterwards. - X201 (talk) 08:38, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Update No news basically. Wikipedia Bot request suggested asking at WikiData BotReq. WikiData BotReq haven't replied after request being up for a week. I'm going to start deleting defunct code next month, with the massively improved AWB code that Wikipedia Bot request created for us. - X201 (talk) 13:15, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Fantasy tropes and conventions[edit]

I added Fantasy tropes and conventions to this project, as well as the literature and film projects. This is an article that could be greatly fleshed out. -- Brainy J ~~ (talk) 17:05, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm not convinced this fits in our project scope. It'd be like putting Gun, Sword, or Protagonist in WP:VG. Tezero (talk) 17:24, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
Agreed, especially considering the article hardly even mentions video games. Sam Walton (talk) 23:54, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
True, but like Brainy said, it needs expansion to improve the scope. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 05:54, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

The Adventure of Little Ralph[edit]

I created a page for this game. Japanese only PS1 release. --Harizotoh9 (talk) 23:43, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Copyedited. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 18:41, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

PETA video games (e.g. Super Tofu Boy, Pokémon Black and Blue)[edit]

Could this be a viable topic for an article? They've gotten a good deal of coverage from the gaming media, some mainstream journalists, and in some cases even the creators of the original games PETA's satirize, but this attention tends to be short-lived for each game. Tezero (talk) 18:17, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

I think that could be good topic. It would need to be written carefully as the topic generally receives negative coverage I would imagine. Sam Walton (talk) 18:29, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
Well the games getting negative coverage is not a bad thing. After all look at the articles on creationism and intelligent design. They are mostly negative as well. Intelligent design is even a featured article. 18:35, 11 April 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by NathanWubs (talkcontribs)

Nah. Try to just add a section to the Peta article on them. --Harizotoh9 (talk) 20:16, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

I think they could be made just fine, if you can scrounge up 4-5 reliable sources covering it in detail, but they're definitely the type that you'd want to go all out on. If someone just went and made one of those "2 sentence, 1 ref" type articles, it would be redirected pretty quickly. Sergecross73 msg me 20:18, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
I agree with Sergecross. This sounds like an interesting topic, Tezero. It's got DYK written all over it. -Thibbs (talk) 14:59, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
The RS's would be the big issue, as per User:Sergecross73, as well as convincing the others that this is indeed encyclopedic (I can hear WP:Pokémon test coming from all directions), but that should be solved by the refs that've been talked about. I'm honestly surprised that {{Template:Video game controversy}} doesn't have anything about it already. Supernerd11 :D Firemind ^_^ Pokedex 21:25, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Civilization: Beyond Earth[edit]

The first thing we did was go on Wikipedia to the Alpha Centauri webpage, and it has the books that Brian Reynolds and his team read, so we read those, and that was our starting point.

PC Gamer interview

Good work guys. - hahnchen 16:36, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Wow, its like my dream is coming true. Good work indeed guys NathanWubs (talk) 16:51, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
They're making a modern Civilization version of Alpha Centauri? And they took inspiration ideas from a well-written Wikipedia page? It's like Christmas and my birthday all combined! --PresN 18:12, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
@Nolelover, Vyeh: czar  18:17, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
Wow...that's incredible. It's amazing that work may have had a tangible effect on this game. Very much looking forward to it. Nolelover Talk·Contribs 23:26, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
I've created a draft for the game at Draft:Civilization: Beyond Earth, if anyone would like to contribute. --Nicereddy (talk) 22:24, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
Unless you don't want me to, I can go right ahead and move that to mainspace - I've seen the coverage of the new title and it is completely safe (far surpassing GNG) to make a mainspace article for it. I had created the redirects this morning when news broke just to cover it. --MASEM (t) 22:56, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
@Masem: Feel free, I made it so that there wouldn't be a half-complete page in the namespace, but it's decent enough to move it now. --Nicereddy (talk) 23:51, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Now a DYK nominee: Did you know ... that the team developing Civilization: Beyond Earth, a spiritual successor to Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, visited that game's Wikipedia article to find inspiration? Sven Manguard Wha? 20:25, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Reception infoboxes involving Metascores[edit]

Reception
Aggregate scores
Aggregator Score
GameRankings X360 - 70.47% (# reviews)[1]
PS3 – 66.15% (#reviews)[2]
Metacritic X360 - 69/100 (# reviews)[3]
PS3 - 66/100 (# reviews)[4]
Review scores
Publication Score
Destructoid 7.5/10[5]
Edge 6/10[6]
Eurogamer 8/10[7]
Famitsu 37/40[8]
Game Informer 7/10[10]
GameSpot 5/10[11]
IGN 7/10[12]
Official PlayStation Magazine (UK) 6/10[9]

I want to see what you guys think about a possible mass edit.

  • First, I know that this is a huge proposition, that would consume a lot of time.
  • I am wondering what you guys think about adding the number of reviews involved with a select metascore in the reception infoboxes. Let me explain why this may need consideration. A Metascore (from Metacritic) is a value that averages a number of reviews to assign one review score. The problem with this is shown clearly in many games, for example, Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII has an Xbox 360 metascore of 69 while the PS3 version has a 66. This can be misleading, causing people to think the game runs/plays "better" on the X360, while the actual reason for the difference is that the X360 version only has 21 reviews while the PS3 version is based on 61 reviews which draws the metascore down. Just like the Xbox One version of Titanfall is lower because it was reviewed by twice as many reviewers. What do you guys think? Do you think this would be a productive project to start, or should we just allow the scores to stand without reviews. I just feel it is extremely misleading. Rilech (talk) 21:52, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
Are you asking if, along with Metacritic scores, the number of reviews be used as well? If so, I would not be opposed to that. It is what the Film project does for reporting on film scores. However, maybe the number of reviews could just be mentioned in prose, when giving the Metacritic scores. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:13, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
That is exactly what I mean. I think either in prose, or maybe even in parentheses in the infobox itself, next to the Metascore. Rilech (talk) 22:21, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
See the infobox I added. Rilech (talk) 22:24, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Support - Standards say it needs to be mentioned in the prose, but honestly I bet people would be better about including that if it was part of the chart... Sergecross73 msg me 23:11, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
At least for now, I would focus on including it in the chart. Do you think it would be appropriate for me to go ahead and start? Rilech (talk) 23:16, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
I'd wait just a bit, just since the Wikiproject is pretty active, and there are some people here with some strange interpretations of things. But it seems like a good idea to me. Sergecross73 msg me 23:20, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
Sounds good. Rilech (talk) 23:26, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
  • This sounds like a good idea to me. It might help address some of the problems that arise from the practice of quoting Metacritic without explaining its unusual jargon (i.e. using "universal" to mean 90%+). -Thibbs (talk) 23:36, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
I'd support it, and I don't see much of a reason not to. --Nicereddy (talk) 23:47, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. I'm not usually into these sort of propositions, but I think this is a good idea. (While you're doing the work, is there a standard for using "(X360)" vs. "X360:"? I've done the latter since it's what the template demo used. Also, wherever that box came from, the GameRankings should only have two digits of precision.) czar  00:16, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
  • I support this proposal too. }IMr*|(60nna)I{ 02:21, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Support: I will support this too. However, like Czar, I have a question if they can be addressed (or pointed out to me) for issues that I have come across. Is there a set order for listing console scores (and I guess the infobox too) across multiple platforms? I have always done alpha order for consoles, then PC(s). Should it just be alpha order regardless of this separation? Sorry for diverting a bit, but it somewhat applies if we are going across and reformatting these. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 03:27, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Support: This will be a boon to our work on this project. But I also raise the same question as Czar and Favre1fan93. --ProtoDrake (talk) 07:59, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
  • I really don't care one way or the other whether this standardization is undertaken, but is there a way to commission bots to do this? Tezero (talk) 13:18, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
    • Well each entry will have to be handled individually since each game received a different number of reviews. So no, a bot couldn't handle it. But there may be tools that could be used to streamline the process. -Thibbs (talk) 14:51, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose mass edit - Not sure that we need to include the number of reviews every single time. Support updating the guidelines at Template:Video game reviews or even introducing a new parameter into the aggregate scores to standardise number-of-reviews. I generally include number-of-reviews if there aren't that many (see Ballistics), but for games like The Stick of Truth, there are dozens of reviews across all three platforms. Each additional review has less of an impact on the overall score, and in many cases, it'd just be bloating the table. - hahnchen 16:18, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Support However, maybe do it in a bit of a smaller font so it will not clutter things when its over 100 reviews. Or if its in the triple digits that its just not mentioned, as the number does not change a lot anymore then anyways. NathanWubs (talk) 17:32, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Support if it's not already in the prose I've been noting the number of reviews in the prose recently, and I don't see a need for it in the review box if it's in the prose. I do, however, believe that it needs to be noted somewhere on the page, because it gives context to the score. For example, Out of the Park Baseball 2007 is the second highest rated game of all time for the PC, according to Metacritic, but that's based off of five reviews. Sven Manguard Wha? 18:44, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

The order of the scores across platforms[edit]

I am by no means trying to end the discussion above, but many, such as @Czar:, @Favre1fan93:, and myself, also are interested in the specific order the scores should be listed. I have always done it alphabetically. I am going to open a poll to find out which you guys think is better. Remember though that polling is NOT a substitute for discussion. Along with these options, feel free to add your own. These are just the three most prominent I have seen. Also, a few raised the question above as to whether the console should be in parenthesis. I think because the (# reviews) will be in parentheses, the console name should not (see infobox example). Rilech (talk) 15:09, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

(added option D -Thibbs (talk) 15:19, 14 April 2014 (UTC))

  • I think any of these would work as long as it's done consistently. There are certain advantages to C and D as well, though. With Option C you can easily see which is the most critically well-received version of a game, and with Option D you can see how critical reception of the game changed through time. Just something to consider. -Thibbs (talk) 15:21, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
    • I agree and I think that is why Option C is already the most used. Rilech (talk) 15:24, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Option A: Alphabetically including PC[edit]

  • This is what I do. - hahnchen 16:07, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Use alphabetic. It will save numerous edit wars positioning one console above another. Its an instantly recognisable ordering system. The release dates will be miles away at the top of the article and release date order may not be instantly obvious. - X201 (talk) 16:10, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Support Thinking now, this seems to be the easiest to avoid edit wars. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:37, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Support per X201. Sven Manguard Wha? 18:35, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Support also. Rilech (talk) 18:56, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. I don't like it, but it's the easiest and thus how I do it. czar  19:49, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. Me fifth! (=D) }IMr*|(60nna)I{ 05:41, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Option B: Alphabetically with PC at the end[edit]

Option C: Numerically by score[edit]

Nope, because that gets us back to the reason stated at the top of this discussion. - X201 (talk) 16:11, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Option D: Chronologically by release date[edit]

Option E: Chrono by release date, with (PC then alphabetical) for common release dates[edit]

Note this matches how we present the platforms in the infobox (or at least how they should be presented). --MASEM (t) 15:35, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Very good point. Rilech (talk) 15:39, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
I'd prefer to see Windows or Win instead, since PC is an ambiguous platform. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 15:41, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, I currently think that most list the PC platform specifically such as Microsoft Windows or OS X, like here. Rilech (talk) 15:47, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Alright with this. I think I'd go with "Windows" rather that "PC". PC is a shortening of "Personal Computer", which is not a gaming platform but rather a.. well, a personal computer. Also, something we might have to remember is that Windows and Xbox are both properties of Microsoft. Not sure whether that's relevant or not, it just sprang to mind. --ProtoDrake (talk) 16:20, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
As as note, yeah, I'm using PC for shorthand, it should be give as "Windows" or "Win". By this point in the article, if it is not clear that a game is available for "Microsoft Windows", something is very wrong in the prose above it. --MASEM (t) 17:15, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
  • This is my personal preference out of the group, though I grant that opt A is the most sensible. czar  19:49, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Computer release short hand[edit]

Creating another poll based on the short discussion in Option E above. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:37, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Option 1: PC (Windows release) and/or OS X[edit]

  1. (OS X has a space) I typically write "Windows PC" in the prose, especially if that's what the sources say. Moreover, I think this is a nonissue since Metacritic doesn't even separate Windows reviews from OS X's, and we'd rarely need to clarify. This said, we're in a poll within a poll. czar  19:49, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
  2. Support: I didn't vote above because I really don't have a preference, as long as it's standardized. However, when it comes to stating the computer scores, it's better to spell out "Windows" due to possible confusion with winning the game, and also the occasional person here who doesn't know what Win means will need it spelled out. Just leaving it as PC also has the vagueness factor (Plenty of people I know, myself included, just use PC for the generic desktop computer, same as using Kleenex for whatever type of tissue it is). Supernerd11 :D Firemind ^_^ Pokedex 14:43, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
  3. Good arguments above. Rilech (talk) 15:09, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Option 2: Win and/or OS X[edit]

FAC is near its end[edit]

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Pokémon Channel/archive1

Ian Rose has told me that more support is necessary if the FAC is to escape archival. Come on, WP:VG, I know you can do this. Or if you oppose for some reason, say that. The FAC is just... it's so close but, per how much support is needed, not quite there. Tezero (talk) 23:36, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

@Tezero: Its been promoted, congratulations! :D --Nicereddy (talk) 05:11, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
Yup! I have another article I'll be taking there soon, so stay tuned. Tezero (talk) 05:45, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
Mewtwo maybe? I've been kicking that idea around for a while since it's already A-class. Supernerd11 :D Firemind ^_^ Pokedex 09:33, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Do we really need Reception charts for multiple consoles?[edit]

I've been wondering, do we really need Reception charts for multiple consoles? Because someone called 86.138.44.2 has gone and changed the multiple-console Reception charts! I've seen the changes in Oni, Enter the Matrix and The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring. He is changing the Reception charts for that matter. But do we really need them? --Angeldeb82 (talk) 16:26, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games#Reception infoboxes involving Metascores. There's an ongoing discussion there. Besides, this is why other video game articles have the standard reception box format rather than the multiple console reception box format because it saves the trouble of having duplicates and misleads to which console is which, like for instance a PS2 score link in an Xbox score, which really is troubling for people as it doesn't really link to the same console score. 86.138.44.2 (talk) 17:10, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
Hmmm... maybe you're right. --Angeldeb82 (talk) 21:44, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
For more info on the topic of why coverage of multiple platforms is important, see Wikipedia:VG/RS#Editorial discretion should promote broad coverage and reduce POV. -Thibbs (talk) 10:29, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Citing a coverdisc[edit]

Does anyone know how one would go about citing a magazine coverdisc? In my case, I need to cite the coverdisc of PC Gamer UK issue 193, which contains a "making of" video relevant to a fan expansion of Thief II: The Metal Age. The making of is available online, but it's fan-made and unpublished. The coverdisc version is the only notable one. Any advice would be appreciated. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 20:12, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Use {{Cite AV media}}. key would be "publisher" as PC Gamer UK, "volume" as needed, and use "at = Coverdisc". --MASEM (t) 20:39, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:08, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Help with Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor 2[edit]

I managed to expand the article Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor 2, cited almost everything but the development section is still bare bones. I couldn't find any English interview about the making of the game. Is there somebody skilled in regards to finding Japanese interviews? It could be of great help. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 23:53, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Oh, I found a whole bunch of Japanese interviews on the official blog. Interview with Suzuhito Yasuda, Interview with Sound Team, Interview with Director and Art Director, Interview with Kenji Ito, Interview with Mohiro Kitoh #1, Interview with Mohiro Kitoh #2. There might even be a few more if you poke around the site a bit, but these ones stuck out. Nall (talk) 02:07, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

GameSpot robots.txt?[edit]

It looks like GameSpot might have enabled robots.txt. Hopefully a false alarm. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 19:18, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Could you list why you believe this and since I don't know what a robots.txt is can you mention why this would be a problem?--67.70.140.89 (talk) 21:39, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
(robots.txt) It prevents web crawlers (robots) from indexing a page either in part or whole. This would likely mean that GS is preventing web archivers from archiving its content. This said, GS is working fine for me in WebCite. czar  21:50, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
Indeed. WebCite still works fine, but the Wayback Machine has stopped allowing GameSpot searches. Every article with an archived GameSpot link now has to be fixed. This is going to be a serious problem with content that GameSpot no longer hosts, such as its "Behind the Games" and "TenSpot" features. And every article that uses Computer Gaming World links from the late 90s will have to be updated, as these were hosted on cgw.gamespot.com--which is blocked as well. I suspect that WPVG is going to be cleaning up this mess for years. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 03:46, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
So its come to this. Can we contact GameSpot and ask for this change to be reversed? It's destroying potential history and the validity of thousands of Wikipedia articles, and I imagine the writers don't want their work to be so easily lost. --Nicereddy (talk) 04:00, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
I've emailed GameSpot via their Contact page, I'll comment again if they reply with anything. I really hope they fix this, I hate to think of the damage this could do to thousands of articles :( --Nicereddy (talk) 04:30, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
If GameSpot goes down, I think Wikipedia will need to reconsider its policy on archiving copyrighted materials. Tezero (talk) 04:35, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
Wait, if Wayback indexed content before robots.txt was on, does Wayback wipe the archived stuff out? It'll make recent stories more a problem, but the archives not so much. --MASEM (t) 04:54, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
Just checked the Team Fortress Classic and Day of Defeat pages. It looks like all GameSpot archives were wiped D: --Nicereddy (talk) 05:03, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
Well this is a blow, but I guess it shows us the value of getting things archived by a third party like WebCite which works fine (I'm guessing) because GameSpot hasn't yet affirmatively opted out. If GameSpot wishes, it can presumably pull the plug on the WebCite archived versions of its pages too. For all we know WebCite may not yet know about GameSpot's decision. Does anyone know WebCite's policy on the grandfathering in of material now under robots.txt? -Thibbs (talk) 10:46, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
A nice alternative if a web crawler doesn't work is textmirror.net, which will make an archived copy of prose only on demand. I used it a couple of weeks ago with 1UP when we were afraid it was going down. It can serve as a nice backup if needed. Red Phoenix let's talk... 12:53, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

# New additions. April 3, 2014.

# Too many bots, being bad.

Gamestop's robots.txt, https://www.gamespot.com/robots.txt

☺ · Salvidrim! ·  13:31, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

  • Gamespot has had multiple redesigns over the years and is not terribly good at keeping archived material available. At the Dishonored FAC which closed only last month, I suggested the inclusion of Gamespot's GOTY 2012 series, which despite only being a year old were already 404ed from their current website. A search for "Gamespot. Archived" returns just over 300 results, some results may not use Archive.org, but this does not catch the cases where it was used without following the standard {{cite web}} parameters. It's a fucking disaster.
There's some mitigation in that WebCite still works (and its already-archived links should continue to work even if Gamespot want to exclude it in future). But our default behaviour when we find a deadlink is to go to Archive.org, and without competitors, we can't really change that. We can however, prevent deadlinks from appearing in the first place, by using WebCite. But manually archiving every link is a massive chore that should be automated. And it is automated, with User:WebCiteBOT, but that only runs once in a blue moon when User:ThaddeusB is active. How is it that the only automated webcitation bot is on the Russian Wikipedia? Can we kick up some sort of fuss about this? - hahnchen 19:30, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
I see no reason why we can't have a bot to handle sites that meet two criteria: employ a robots.txt to avoid archiving, and have "flighty" content policies (frequent redesigns, known breakages of URLs, etc.), that when they are added via a standard template to have the material tossed to webcite and the archive link added. This is a much smaller task than archiving every reference, particularly to sites that are less a problem about content retention. --MASEM (t) 19:44, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
I'd love it so much if could put an {{archiveplease}} inside of a ref and have a bot come by and archive it later; right now I try to archive my stuff with a local script but it's flaky and non-scalable. --PresN 20:42, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
User:Hellknowz, you're a botter and VGpedian, what needs to happen for a replacement Webcitebot? - hahnchen 12:30, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
I am actually pretty active now - thanks for reminding me to get WebCiteBOT back up and running... If there is an immediate need to archive GameSpot URLS, let me know and I can do a special run like I did for GeoCities and Encarta. --ThaddeusB (talk) 13:54, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
Also, I had long planned to add an archive on demand feature to the bot - the "archiveplease" template idea is a very good way to implement it. --ThaddeusB (talk) 13:56, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
User:ThaddeusB, good to see you back. Is there any reason why Webcitebot is not running right now? Is it to do with your capacity, Webcite capacity or other server issues? - hahnchen 02:18, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the link to http://textmirror.net -- good to have a army of tools available (as I've found sometimes Webcite can choke on certain page layouts and archive crud instead of the content.) Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 19:39, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

I realize I may have given the wrong impression when I talked about Wikipedia's policy. I was referring to the policy against linking to direct image scans of copyrighted sites rather than its policy in favor of web archives. Tezero (talk) 20:48, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

  • It should be mentioned that some of GameSpot's work from the late 90s and early 00s is still available: portions of the site were hosted on ZDNet during this period. I've already salvaged a few links from this cache relevant to the Looking Glass Studios topic. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 03:58, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Armello, DYK?[edit]

A few days ago I created the article and subsequent DYK suggestion for Armello, and upcoming indie game that, while totally notable, hasn't gotten a lot of attention (less than 200 hits since the 14th). It's just one of those projects I'd like to see succeed, especially since it has a Kickstarter going, and if anyone wanted to give the DYK a look or suggest a better hook that'd be great. If not, that's fine too, this is just really more for my benefit of knowing I did everything I could to help it out, even if its just a one-day main page plug. (This message is in no way endorsed by League of Geeks. They aren't even paying me in Vegemite for this.) Nall (talk) 05:15, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

The original hook is great; the second exhibits slightly confusing phrasing and isn't as interesting. Tezero (talk) 05:23, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
I liked that one too, I just picked another one that sounded more important since I didn't know exactly what reviewers tend to go for. If someone familiar with the process wants to do a review, that'd be great. Not trying to advertise here (exactly), I just got smitten with this indie project and want to support in my own way. Nall (talk) 13:45, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

List of Capcom games[edit]

A user, Come on body, is unhappy with the new format of the list (just as a refresher, the old list was several lists, separated by platform; the new list is a table sorted by name with all the platforms the game was released on). I discussed it here before changing it to the new format. He keeps reverting it to the old list. I can't keep reverting it (because of the 3 revert rule). The current version of the list is his last revert, here. He doesn't seem willing to talk about it. Since I don't think the list is heavily watched, I'm escalating it here. Any ideas on what should be done next? — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 13:25, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

I just reverted him. Maybe he will read my edit summary and read the link I left and stop. If not, an edit warring case is very likely. Rilech (talk) 14:26, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
Thank you. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 14:38, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Help at the Stubcheck Project[edit]

I would appreciate any help at the Stubcheck Project where we are currently reassessing the Start-Class articles under this WikiProject's scope. Let's move towards our project goal of maintaining a C+ rating on 20% of our articles! Jucchan (talk) 21:52, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Reference library online archive[edit]

While adding some details of PC Gamer UK copies I own to the library today, I discovered that many (not sure if all, but it's certainly not just the major ones) PC Gamer UK reviews and previews back to 12 December 2006 have been imported to the CVG website here. Not sure if this is common knowledge already, but it doesn't seem to be included in the reference library. If it's useful, where would I include it? The Online Resources section that seems most appropriate for PCG articles seems to only deal with Internet Archive links. —Vanderdeckenξφ 22:56, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

This is a great find. You can include it under the "Platform specific" header in the Online resources section. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 04:05, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Adventure (1979 video game)[edit]

There is some discussion occurring on this article's talk page about some of the sources used to reference the game's release date. In particular, the section closer to the top titled "Wrong release date" and the section about POV and source overkill at the bottom. If anyone else would like to comment there, it would be appreciated. —Tourchiest talkedits 05:05, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

I've commented there, but have reached a sticking point. One editor is very concerned that there is insufficient evidence for the release date and he wants to include an article from Hardcore Gamer 101 (a situational source according to WP:VG/RS) where the release date of the game is covered in depth. The issue is complicated by the fact that the HG101 article is essentially a hatchet job or smear piece tearing up Wikipedia and highlighting certain of its members for special abuse. Obviously that's not really an issue that touches the academic content of the source, but external views would be appreciated. The concerned editor has raised some valid points, but several of the editors that have argued the issue in talk are now "involved" so we need a few uninvolved third parties to help find a compromise of some kind. -Thibbs (talk) 10:29, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
Just in case it isn't clear, Derboo is the author of the piece on HG101. —Torchiest talkedits 14:20, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
Ah, I noticed his name in the blog post he linked, but I hadn't noticed his name in HG101. I suspected as much of course, but now I see his name too. The issue is clearly very much in need out neutral 3rd party views since it basically boils down to a clash of the egos between Derboo and Marty. At times the facts become lost amid the personal jabs. -Thibbs (talk) 15:39, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Note - I've drafted a summary of the factual part of the dispute here. Neutral 3rd party views are welcome. Failing that I say we launch an RfC. -Thibbs (talk) 15:41, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
Guys, I've purposely been staying out of this new discussion, the previous one was some time ago. I'm not sure what you mean by clash of egos, my only concern at the time was that Deboo's assertions contained a lot of synthesis and OR, and were not as cut and dry as he wanted to present, let alone satisfying Wikipedia's own guidelines and needs. Really not much different than everyone else has been pointing out. Upset, he decided to turn to his hg101 blog and write his thoughts which included disgusting personal attacks at me and questioning my ability to do research, and at Wikipedia in general. I still hold no I'll will, but I will say that after repeated direct interviews with the game's author for our book and the copy of the internal ROM release list we have (which gives the ROM release date as 1979), his opinion and interpretations on the matter are still not cut and dry. --Marty Goldberg (talk) 01:34, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
Posted my opinion there. I'm rather disgusted that he tries to present his blog post as a reliable source (while carefully not mentioning that he's the author), while casting aspersions on several published books (and their authors) simply because he personally disagrees with them, especially after the blog post goes off on a rant about Marty rather than presenting good evidence based off of reliable sources. Not that he's put any of his "scholarship" towards actually, you know, fixing up the article. --PresN 04:18, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Proteus Peer Review[edit]

After two empty Peer Reviews and an FAC which received no supports or opposes before it was closed, I've opened a third Peer Review and would love comments from you with the aim of starting another FAC afterwards. Thanks, Sam Walton (talk) 16:56, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

A bunch of FACs closed in the past solely due to interest. There seems to be more activity now and hopefully that keeps up. I'm going to try my best to review everything that comes through FAC, but I'm going to be honest if it will take more work than I can offer. (Reviewing is time-consuming enough, but I do a heavy review for copy and don't have the time to outline every instance of a thing.) Anyway, I'd be happy to take a look at this, but might I suggest just putting it up for A-class review (if you feel it's ready)? czar  15:32, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Image review[edit]

Is anybody available to conduct an image review of Grand Theft Auto V's non free content for its FAC? A delegate is requesting an image review done (presumably as a last spot-check before closing). Thanks. CR4ZE (tc) 13:58, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

I can do it later today if someone doesn't beat me to it czar  15:18, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
I did get to it, but there is one image that I think needs discussion (listed there). --MASEM (t) 15:29, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Alien Rage DYK and GAN[edit]

Hey all. I may not be online very much this coming week, so if someone could take a look at Alien Rage's DYK nomination and GAN review quickly, so that I can address any concerns Sunday (i.e. tomorrow) evening (I'm in Eastern Standard time), it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Sven Manguard Wha? 03:31, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
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