Talk:List of countries bordering on two or more oceans

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Argentina[edit]

This list is at odds with the article on Argentina, which states that Argentina is only bordered by the Atlantic Ocean.Silverchemist (talk) 19:49, 8 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

According to the IHO definition on the border between the Atlantic and the Pacific oceans, which is a straight line due south from Cape Horn and the eastern end of the Strait of Magellan between Cabo Vírgenes and Cabo del Espíritu Santo, Argentina do not border on the latter. Is there any particular reason why it is listed as "2 or 3" in the table and bordering on the latter in the note? 203.145.94.134 (talk) 06:00, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Egypt[edit]

Has land in both Africa and Asia. Added Asia. Ok? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.74.57.92 (talk) 19:39, 11 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! I've also reordered the list a bit. YBG (talk) 06:09, 14 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Denmark[edit]

Denmark (with Greenland) should be on the list bordering Atlantic Ocean and a Arctic Ocean. Greenland alone would qualify. Boettern (talk) 06:58, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Done! Schnapper (talk) 11:32, 23 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I have reverted the conflation of Greenland and Denmark as it doesn't seem to meet the qualifications of the lede. YBG (talk) 13:51, 23 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Mexico[edit]

Isn't the State of Quintana Roo in Mexico usually considered to border the Caribbean Sea and not the Gulf of Mexico? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.170.95.244 (talk) 03:43, 3 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The table has been revised to include both. Ideally, a single cover term would be used, but it seems that the Caribbean Sea is not part of the Gulf of Mexico, nor, I believe, is the Gulf generally considered part of the Caribbean. It seems to me the smallest body of water that could include both would be the North Atlantic, which seems way to big. So although in general I would prefer to only list two marginal seas of the same ocean when they are discontiguous (like the Black Sea and the Baltic Sea listed for Russia), but in this case, there doesn't seem to be any other choice. YBG (talk) 05:11, 27 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Antarctica[edit]

Antarctica bordering on the Arctic Ocean? Perhaps the Southern Ocean is more likely! 86.14.9.87 (talk) 12:17, 28 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It borders on the Southern Ocean, but has been eliminated from this list as it is not a country. YBG (talk) 05:11, 27 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

South Africa and the Southern Ocean?[edit]

why isn't South Africa listed as bordering on the South Ocean? It's southern coast is about as far south as Australia's. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:6:5600:5AC:60CC:C802:19B7:ECD3 (talk) 22:34, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

France, Spain, Morocco[edit]

These countries don't quite qualify as their borders are with different portions of the same ocean -- the Mediterranean is a portion of the Atlantic. A separate section of countries with separate discontiguous borders on different parts of the same ocean would pick up France and Spain, but not Morocco. Any ideas of what to do with this? YBG (talk) 05:54, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed Spain and Morocco from the article as they indeed don't qualify and included the French overseas territories. I've also added the UK overseas territories. Schnapper (talk) 11:26, 23 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for removing Spain and Morocco. I also removed France after reverted the addition of the French overseas territories as they don't really meet the qualifications of the lede. YBG (talk)
On further reflection, I decided to restore these three countries but add a comment in the notes column. YBG (talk) 14:43, 23 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
During the cleanup inspired by the deletion discussion, these countries were removed. YBG (talk) 05:11, 27 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@YBG: What about a footnote for France? 219.76.24.205 (talk) 07:51, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@219.76.24.205: France has two issues. The one discussed in this section is comparable to the situation explained in the footnote about India. The discussion in § France's overseas departments? is explained in the lede, but I have just now added a footnote explaining it directly. Thank you for your suggestion. YBG (talk) 08:56, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Any similar case apart from the US and France? The Azores or the Canaries may or may not be considered continuous but since there isn't any second ocean that'd be a moot point for Portugal and Spain. Dependent territories don't count, as in the case of the Danish realm and the Dutch kingdom. 219.76.24.198 (talk) 12:56, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The footnote is helpful only in helping readers understand why such multi-continental countries are not included in the list. While it may be helpful to include an exhaustive list, I don't think it is necessary. YBG (talk) 06:35, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for pinging me, however, I was not notified because you did not add the ping and your signature in the same edit. I attempted to ping you, but was notified that WP cannot deliver pings to anonymous users. Pinging and other notifications are among the advantages of being a registered user. Over the years I have developed some friendships with other registered WP users, which would not have been possible if were were anonymous IP users. YBG (talk) 09:03, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Issues[edit]

There are a number of issues with this list mostly having to do having a good definitions of 'countries' and 'oceans'.

  • Countries: Should countries qualify on the basis of having overseas dependencies or territories. I take the wording of the lede (which is very weak and subject to interpretation) as excluding these, hence:
    1. Don't amalgamate Greenland and Denmark
    2. Don't include French and US overseas territories
    3. Don't include UK based on its overseas dependencies
  • Oceans: What constitutes a separate ocean?
    1. France, Spain, Morocco qualify only if the Mediterranean is considered a separate ocean and not just an arm of the Atlantic
    2. Chile, Argentina: Where is the dividing line between the Atlantic and Pacific?
    3. South Africa, Australia: Also suffer from issues of dividing lines and the definition of the Southern Ocean.

Underlying all of this is the question of notability. Despite being tagged since 2013, no WP:RS has been added to indicate that this topic is notable. If there were such a source, then the notability could be used to guide the exact definitions country and ocean and the inclusion and exclusion of countries from the list. YBG (talk) 14:09, 23 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

France's overseas departments?[edit]

Why aren't France's overseas departments (Guadeloupe, Martinique, French Guiana, Réunion Island & Mayotte) counted to determine how many oceans France borders? I do understand that dependencies aren't counted in this list, but the French overseas departments are not dependencies, they are all considered to be integral parts of France. Alaska is counted for the USA, why wouln't those be? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.50.85.151 (talk) 19:33, 22 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The lede has been revised to explain why these are excluded. YBG (talk) 05:11, 27 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@YBG If discontinuous parts are excluded, the US shouldn't be listed as bordering the Arctic Ocean. Either French departments in the Indian Ocean count, or Alaska doesn't (Collectivities in the Pacific are another matter) 2A01:799:EA6:9900:BC7B:C5A:D8B9:EB0E (talk) 21:45, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You are correct. The current text which shows the US with three oceans is wrong. It should show Alaska as a separate entry with two oceans - Pacific and Arctic - and the lower 48 also with two oceans - Atlantic and Pacific. If any of France’s overseas departments consists of a single contiguous territory bordering on two oceans, it should be listed. I will fix the US entry to what it used to be. YBG (talk) 21:56, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It is now fixed. Thanks for pointing out the error, which crept in while the page was not on my watchlist. YBG (talk) 22:50, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The French overseas departments would be treated like Greenland, which is pare of Denmark. Greenland is listed because in itself it borders on two oceans. If any overseas departments similarly have a contiguous region bordering on two oceans, they should be listed. YBG (talk) 02:58, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why is the United States on the list twice, and Russia has a connection to the Atlantic, though not physically connect to the Atlantic?[edit]

I'm confused about the separation as well as the 3 for Russia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 135.23.173.249 (talk) 21:49, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

1st, Russia. The Black Sea and the Baltic Sea are both marginal seas of the Atlantic Ocean and so considered part of the Atlantic. This is why the Russian mainland is said to border on all three different oceans.
2nd, US. The lead paragraph indicates that to be included on this list, a single contiguous territory must border on multiple oceans. There is no single US territory that borders on three different oceans; Alaska and the Lower 48 each border on two oceans, though not the same two. One US entry represents Alaska and the other entry represents the lower 48.
Hope this explanation helps. If you have any ideas for how the lead or the footnotes or any other part of the article could explain better, please let us know, either by boldly making the edit yourself or by making some suggestions here.
Thanks for your input! YBG (talk) 03:48, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

New Zealand and SGSSI[edit]

Would any of them border on two oceans (Pacific Ocean and Southern Ocean for NZ; Atlantic and Southern for the South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands) according to some definitions of Southern Ocean, which have more northerly limits? 203.145.94.134 (talk) 04:48, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@YBG: Any idea? 219.76.24.198 (talk) 12:57, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I think the current notes related to the Southern Ocean could be made more specific by referring to specific IHO definitions of the Southern Ocean under which it applies -- see File:The shrinking Southern Ocean.png. I don't think any single contiguous land mass of either NZ or SGSSI would qualify under any of those definitions. But taking a larger view of the issue, IMO the primary reason for the significance of this lists fact that in countries bordering multiple oceans, the national psyche is impacted by this geography, particularly large continental countries, but also those including straights between two great ocean, and, to a lesser extent, those countries having a cape dividing the oceans. But I reckon the geographic impact upon the cultural psyche in islands like Svalbard or SGSSI is much different than the cultural impact of of Hawaii's or the Andaman's geography. I can't see that for islands the position of the oceanic boundary makes much difference. YBG (talk) 06:54, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
PS, I'm not sure if the two comments above mine were written by the same editor or by two different editors. Have you considered registering for a WP account? If you choose not to, it would be helpful in exchanges like this to clarify whether you are the same person or a different person. Thank you and happy editing. 06:56, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
Some definitions of the Southern Ocean got much more northerly limits, and that put NZ and the SGSSI into the picture. How island countries should or shouldn't be considered contiguous would of course be another question. Macquarie Island probably won't be considered as contiguous to Australia's Tasmania, but what about The Snares/Tini Heke of NZ? Is it "contiguous" to the Stewart Islands/Rakiura, the South Island and the rest of NZ? 219.76.24.215 (talk) 08:54, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Acts of Vandalism[edit]

A user in bad faith ((Kpddg)) is adding the Strait of Magellan in the section of Argentina, in the circumstance that this strait belongs absolutely and without any discussion to Chile.- (The worst thing is that it requires me to accompany sources that prove that the Strait of Magallanes is Chilean)

There are matters that are not in discussion at all; they are axiomatic, common sense, obvious and public knowledge.--Sergio Marchan 2357 (talk) 05:24, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Report this user = ((Kpddg))

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Sergio Marchan 2357 (talk • contribs) 05:24, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Sergio Marchan 2357: A few things to keep in mind
  1. Please Assume good faith, this is one of the cardinal rules here at wikipedia.
  2. It would be more accurate to describe this editor's actions as restoring information rather than adding it.
  3. When you make edits, be careful. Your edits resulted in placing the South Atlantic under the Pacific Ocean and the Drake Passage under the Indian Ocean. I have made some bonehead errors like this myself, and try to remind myself to make use of the help: show preview feature.
  4. It is very helpful to use the help: edit summary feature to explain an edit.
  5. What appears obvious to one person may not be obvious to another. As I do not live near this area, I (wrongly) assumed that the term "Straights of Magellan" refers to the entire passage from the Pacific to the Atlantic (and not just the narrow portion) and that the international border is near the midway point of that waterway (rather than being practically at the Atlantic).
Thank you for your efforts to improve the encyclopedia anyone can edit. YBG (talk) 08:10, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Israel[edit]

It is Israel which should be included in the list. Not Palestine.

Palestine has two parts, Gaza Strip and West Bank. Well, Gaza Strip just borders Mediterranean Sea which is part of Atlantic Ocean. Also, West Bank borders the Dead Sea which is just a lake and isn't connected to the Red Sea which is part of Indian Ocean.

But on the other hand, Israel borders both Mediterranean Sea and Red Sea. Aminabzz (talk) 21:57, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

fixed it. 84.110.223.74 (talk) 08:15, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't distance a problem?[edit]

Shouldn't the countries in the list exactly border oceans?

For example, Egypt borders Mediterranean and Red seas which join Atlantic and Indian oceans respectively (of course thousands of miles apart).

So is it ok to consider a country bordering an ocean because it borders a sea which joins an ocean? Aminabzz (talk) 00:09, 28 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Aminabzz: The marginal seas are considered to be an integral part of their ocean, not an entity separate from it. YBG (talk) 22:56, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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