Talk:Transwoman

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Contents 1 Space in "trans woman" 2 Correction regarding hormones 3 Weasel Words 4 Removed Blanchard Reference

[edit] Space in "trans woman"

Many trans people see the componding of 'transwoman' into one word as offensive. Including the space makes an important distinction between 'trans' as a modifier describing the word 'woman' vs. 'transwoman' being a gender in and of itself distinct from 'woman'. It's analogous to the term 'chinaman' being considered a very offensive perjorative, whereas 'chinese man' is merely a descriptor. I would propose a title change, adding in the space. At the very least, the significance of including the space needs to be mentioned in the Terminology section, or somewhere in the article; as it's seen as an important issue in the trans communityRootneg2 (talk) 03:47, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I went ahead and added a brief sentence outlining the issue in Terminology.Rootneg2 (talk) 06:16, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

I am seconding the proposed title change, and including the space in all occurrences. Note that the space is always included in body of the trans man article (though not the title currently). Genderhack (talk) 17:06, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes. I'd like to put a space in all of the usages, including the title. (In the absence of further discussion, I'll do this in another day or two.) Same over at the 'Transman' article. This is important: trans men are men, trans women are women. And yes, include something in 'terminology' about how it's common to not use the space, and why this is considered offensive. I'd like to know something about the history of the with-space/without-space usages, and if there's a good source, maybe that could be a good inclusion as well. Dchudz (talk) 20:50, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Not sure I agree with this at all. Transmen, in my experience don't care that much, Transwomen sure do. I think the lede can point out that both usages are fine but the rest of the article should stick with Transwoman until there is compelling reason not too. -- Banjeboi 00:13, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Correction regarding hormones

There is incorrect info in this article. Voice and hair are NOT affected by the hormone replacement therapy in transwomen. These issues should be corrected using voice therapy and various epilation methods.--~Chick With (talk) 19:05, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Weasel Words

The lead in the article seems to use a lot of weasel words, and needs a rewrite. SJrX10 (talk) 02:14, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

There is exactly one weaselish "some" in there and it's accurate. Any word choice suggestions? -- Banjeboi 03:50, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Specifically I was refering to:

Some individuals have been labeled and assigned as males, but feel that is not an accurate and complete description of themselves. They may desire to transition towards a gender role as a woman to varying degrees.

It seems overly qualified, and in some ways redundant. Neither sentence actually seems to be useful for the lead in of the article, and it seems disconnected from the first two sentences.

Someone suggested something like: "Individuals may feel that their biological or social gender does not reflect their feelings, and may transfer to a role as the opposite gender, or with no defined gender", however the issue seems contentious, and that too has it's problems. More generically I would either think that the sentence should be moved before the first sentence, or moved later in the article. If something more definitive/concrete could be said like "Transwomen...", or even "Many Transwomen" I think that would help -- SJrX10 (talk) 06:22, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

We will likely have problems defining male and female as opposite genders but I've tried to clean this up a bit without going that route. The lede is still very short but I've split the sentences into two paragraphs. Does this help? -- Banjeboi 08:56, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

It's better, now the only problem is the second sentence, "They may desire to transition towards a gender role as a woman to varying degrees.". Isn't that redundant in an article about transwomen (i.e. haven't all transwomen not only desired, but partaken) in a transition towards a gender role as a woman in various degrees). -- SJrX10 (talk) 17:35, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Personally I know that it's all over the board and we have to write conservatively. Some are quite happy being just as they are whereas others do wish to wear make-up and take steps to more identify with tradition female gender roles in their cultures. -- Banjeboi 01:24, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you are saying exactly, after reviewing the article and the article on transexualism and transgender, it seems like you might be saying or believing that you can be transwoman simply in spirit only, without making any changes to your life, or actions. If that is the case then the sentences make sense, however that isn't laid out in the first part of the lead in. . If on the other hand, in order to meet the definition of transgendered, you actually need to change your actions (even if they are very minor and limited changes, or if you go the full way), then it seems saying that "Many transgendered...", "They May desire" is incorrect, since it should be all. -- 216.152.207.157 (talk) 17:30, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

We may be talking past each a bit. One doesn't have to do anything but identify as or be identified as a transperson, transman, transwoman, etc. One can do much more but the identification is the key. What it means to be male and female is still being defined by each culture. And it's still changing. Many people try to reject all these labels and the cultural biases of having to be a certain way or not. -- Banjeboi 02:39, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Removed Blanchard Reference

Hello, I removed the Ray Blanchard reference in the later half of the article as he has been under scrutiny from all sides of the transgender and LGB communities. His work is dubious at best as he has had a long history of completely ignoring the narratives and stories of actual trans people, imposing his theory of the "homosexual male transsexual" on others. I hereby request that no further referencing to Ray Blanchard or Kenneth Zucker be added, as their intellectual dishonesty supersedes any "authority" they have on the matter of transgendered issues.

See also: BBL controversy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.67.16.7 (talk) 03:39, 20 May 2009 (UTC)