Talk:Visa policies of British Overseas Territories

WCM and Twofournights

These two editors have ganged on me for some reason. Any reason why you chose to keep reverting edits even though I have made some changes? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.43.227.18 (talk) 17:49, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Please do not attack other editors. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Thank you.--Twofortnights (talk) 19:47, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Well if they deter users like you, I'm not too worried about it.

Until today I'd never even heard of Twofortnights but the user is correct, your focus on the interpretation of a single primary source the 2002 act is problematic. As I explained on your talk page, this is WP:OR and WP:SYN, since you need a secondary source as multiple pieces of legislation are involved, which have degrees of effect dependent upon the territory involved. I suggest you look again at WP:V! WCM_email 20:23, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, there are probably a few thousand members on Wikipedia. There are other pages which you and Twofournights also reverted too. So coming back to this particular article, why the removal of sourced content? All I have written is this >>> 'It should be noted that although the BOTs come under the sovereignty of the United Kingdom, UK citizens do not generally have automatic right of abode in them. For example, Virgin Islands will permit UK citizens to enter but they must apply for permission to stay for longer.'

WCM has pointed out why. You are interpreting a legal act and that's original research, and you can read more here WP:OR and WP:SYN. You use foul language against other users calling them idiotic and telling them to piss off but that won't help your cause. You edited the visa requirements for Canadian citizens stubbornly with some outdated source (from a short moment in history when the UAE and Canada fought over flight slots for the Emirates in Toronto) and you wouldn't give up until I posted more than 5 sources to back-up something that was already in the first verifiable official source that you've tried to remove. And then there was the stubborn inclusion of ESTA for Canadian citizens as well. It seems like the only thing you do is insist on your version without bothering to even check if it's up to date or if it's in accordance with Wikipedia rules. I ask you to please read the links to which you were directed WP:OR, WP:SYN and WP:V and then come back with a comment.--Twofortnights (talk) 20:48, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

I deliberately make no comment on the behavioural issues. But I do need to point out that "It should be noted that although the BOTs come under the sovereignty of the United Kingdom, UK citizens do not generally have automatic right of abode in them. For example, Virgin Islands will permit UK citizens to enter but they must apply for permission to stay for longer" (than the usual month granted at entry). is both true and adequately referenced. BushelCandle (talk) 06:31, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Changes of visa policy of Turks and Caicos

Dear Twofortnigts,

I am personally glad that the visa policy of Turks and Caicos changed regarding Croatia. However, the references given do not show that. Can you please provide the exact reference. Thank you,

MM — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.28.18.83 (talk) 11:05, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

You can see it here [1]--Twofortnights (talk) 10:26, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

THANK YOU — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.125.205.114 (talk) 13:49, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Cayman Island visa

I am a permanent resident of Canada with my citizenship being Jamaican. I would like to visit the Cayman Islands In December. Do I need a visa and if I do, how do I go about getting one? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.98.223 (talk) 14:41, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

This is a late response, but if you're a permanent resident of Canada, and arrive in the Cayman Islands directly from Canada or the US, you don't need a visa, regardless of your nationality. Heitordp (talk) 01:33, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Falkland Islands

@Ire96: Thank you for your recent edits. As you wrote, the Falkland Islands website says that "A number of countries have reciprocal arrangements with the Falkland Islands, and their citizens do not need to arrange a Visitor's visa." This means that all countries with which they have a reciprocal agreement don't need a visa. However, I don't think that the reverse is true, as not all countries that don't need a visa for the Falklands offer a reciprocal waiver. For example, the US and Australia provide a visa waiver for British citizens but not for British overseas territories citizens (BOTCs) of the Falklands, so people from the Falklands can travel to these countries without a visa only if using a British citizen passport but not if using the BOTC passport specific to their territory. Several other countries provide a visa waiver to all British nationals, but through an agreement directly with the UK. The Falkland ordinance regarding visas doesn't mention anything about reciprocity, it merely lists the countries to which it provides a visa waiver, as if it were a unilateral decision.

In addition, the Falkland website seems to be outdated. It lists Paraguay, which is not in the ordinance, and doesn't list Croatia or Slovenia, which are part of the EU and thus included in the ordinance. Timatic, the system that the airlines use to check visa requirements of all countries, matches the ordinance.

The number 47 is also incorrect either way. The Falkland website lists 48 countries/territories, while the updated ordinance and Timatic list 49. As visa waivers tend to change often, I prefer not to put a number in these visa policy articles and just list the countries. Heitordp (talk) 23:20, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for writing and helping improving this article, highly appreciated. The Falkland Island government page led me to believe that the reciprocal agreements were for vice versa also.

I believe all Falkland Islanders were granted full British citizenship alongside people from Gibraltar in 1983 if that’s correct? Therefore Falkland Islanders can use their full British passport for visa-free access anyways.

Regarding the embarkation tax. I think it is relevant to this page and should be included on here. We should be providing everything we can on this page and not trying to edit things out. I believe it does have a place on here. I mean if I was looking into a visa policy of a country I would like to know if I had to pay such tax when leaving the country/territory wouldn’t you?

While I have you here, in your opinion what do you think about splitting this page and having the Falkland island it’s own separate visa policy page? I feel like all this information is enough for its own page and not on some subsection of a page. I like the concept of having all the policies on one page but I feel like there’s just too much information. Ire96 (talk) 23:35, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

That's correct, all people from the Falkland Islands were granted British citizenship in 1983. Maybe that's what the website meant, as all those countries offer visa waivers to British citizens. I also imagine that the vast majority of the islanders just use the British citizen passport and don't even have a Falkland BOTC passport. I know that it exists because of a news article, but I could never find an image of it online. Anyway, I suggest restoring the section about reciprocity saying that the islanders have visa-free access to all those countries as British citizens, but not specifically saying that they have reciprocal agreements with the Falklands.

I don't really find it useful to mention the embarkation tax in these articles because it's something that almost every country imposes on every passenger, and most people don't even notice it as it's included in the airline ticket and usually not very high. But if you want to add it to the article that's fine. In that case, I like your idea of splitting it to a separate page where you can add these details. On the page with all the territories, the Falkland section could be shorter like the others and have a "see also" link to the separate page. Heitordp (talk) 00:22, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

@Heitordp: (hopefully that tag works, if not sorry)

Thanks for the link to that news article. I myself can never find a picture of an actual Falkland island BOTC passport. Very strange? Unless all Falkland Islanders just use a regular full British passport which seems to be the case.

Very good idea to have the Falkland section smaller on this page and then having all this information on here. I had the exact same idea but what happened was I created a new full independent page for the Falkland Islands visa policy but an admin deleted my edit and told me to include all my information here on this page instead and suggested to start a discussion where if we should split this page or not. I feel like a new page would be great. We could both work on it if you wanted as I feel a second opinion is always great and needed.

I will restore the reciprocity section in the new page (if it’s created) and rewrite it.

Regarding the embarkation tax, we should leave it out of this page and if it’s really needed we could just add it to the new page. Thanks for the all the help. Ire96 (talk) 01:03, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

@Ire96: (The reply tag works.) Now I see. Sorry for the confusion, you were trying to add good content and two users gave you conflicting instructions. I'll start a discussion below to split the Falkland section into a new article. I'll ping Twofortnights, who is probably the most active user in visa articles. Heitordp (talk) 13:20, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Splitting proposal

I propose that section Falkland Islands be split into a separate page called Visa policy of the Falkland Islands. The current content of that section is more detailed than the others, and there is even more to add. For consistency, I propose simplifying the section in the current article and adding the detailed content to the new page. Heitordp (talk) 13:20, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Yes I was a bit confused but at the end of the day I’m glad this issue has been resolved. The user Twofortnights is absolutely great and I always work alongside him/her on visa policy pages, however he/she has been MIA for the last few months. I have tried to get in contact about a separate issue back in March but I got no reply. Thanks for proposing the splitting of pages and all the help.

I’m not sure how long it will take to get a response so I’ll give it exactly two weeks and if this discussion hasn’t been discussed I will create the new page (and tag you in the new talk section of that page).  Ire96 (talk) 20:21, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Gibraltar and Brexit

With Gibraltar now joining the Schengen Zone, should this be separated? Also would this not also affect the Right of Abode for British Citizens landing in Gibraltar? OSSYULYYZ (talk) 16:20, 1 January 2021 (UTC)