Template:Did you know nominations/Holter Graham

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Holter Graham

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• ... that as a young student in Baltimore, Maryland, actor Holter Graham once rigged a classmate's backpack to explode?

• Reviewed: Lesotho–Russia relations
• Comment: 2x expansion of unsourced BLP

Created/expanded by Tim1965 (talk). Self nom at 22:46, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Hook

• Length, format, content rules – I have a problem with this as perhaps an unduly negative BLP hook. It's cute and entertaining, but does someone deserve to be defined on DYK with a school prank? Seems to be hook potential with the wedding that isn't negative. Daniel Case (talk) 02:25, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
• Source – Daniel Case (talk) 02:25, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
• Interest – Definitely there. Daniel Case (talk) 02:25, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
• Image suitability, if applicable – N/A Daniel Case (talk) 02:25, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
• ALT hooks, if proposed –

Article

• Length – Passes eyeball test. Daniel Case (talk) 02:25, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
• Vintage – Most non-list text added since date. Daniel Case (talk) 02:25, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
• Sourcing (V, RS, BLP) – Daniel Case (talk) 02:25, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
• Neutrality – Daniel Case (talk) 02:25, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
• Plagiarism/close paraphrasing – Fixed some phrasing to be even less like source article.
• copyvio (files) – N/A Daniel Case (talk) 02:25, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
• Obvious faults in prose, structure, formatting – Nope. Daniel Case (talk) 02:25, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Comments/discussion:

• Graham himself talks extensively and publicly about what a mischievious kid he was, and with relish. (He calls himself a "snot-nosed brat", which is also quoted in the article.) The hook does not say he's doing that today, though. "Bad kid does right" is a lovely story, not a negative one. - Tim1965 (talk) 12:12, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Just because someone likes to brag about this sort of thing, especially when his claim to notability lies somewhere else, does not automatically invalidate our BLP policy. Your reasoning is worth consideration, but I'd prefer getting some consensus from other readers as to whether this would be OK. Daniel Case (talk) 21:21, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

• I don't have any objection to the current hook if the subject indeed doesn't consider it duly negative. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:09, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

• I can only suggest that reviewers click on the link in the citation and read the article for themselves. There's a big difference beween "mischievious scamp" and "going Columbine". I suggest that both school officials and Graham consider his actions to be in the former category. - Tim1965 (talk) 01:20, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

You might also want to consider that the article in question is 15 years old. He may have had a change of heart since then. Also, "going Columbine" would not have been a consideration in 1996 as that was three years before Columbine. After that day, potentially making a classmate into an involuntary suicide bomber might just seem a lot less funny. Daniel Case (talk) 05:00, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

• Instead of engaging in speculation or original research about the article, perhaps we should go with the facts as cited. - Tim1965 (talk) 13:15, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

That is not speculating. That's applying our policy. You have relied heavily on one interview the subject gave 15 years ago. If he regularly brings it up in other, more recent, interviews, I'll concede that it's not undue. But only then. Daniel Case (talk) 05:47, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

• Time for a new hook that does not raise BLP issues:

• ALT1 ... that actor Holter Graham lived in Baltimore, Maryland while growing up, but spent summers on a Montana cattle ranch? --Orlady (talk) 03:05, 19 September 2011 (UTC)