Topics Needing Attention[edit]

Do Tell![edit]

here[edit]

Categorization and Correction of Vessel Inventories and Histories[edit]

Vessel Templates and Name Standardization[edit]

PD: Categorization and Correction of MARAD/NDRF/NISP/etc[edit]

There is a significant problem with the following topics, perhaps you can concentrate on them and get a clear set of categories set up from official sources:

Marad's Ghost fleet includes NDRF but also NISP and many others NDRF should be recognized as the independent naval operation that it is RRF, sibling of NDRF, is a fully functional navy independent as well NIF (inactive fleet) is blatantly missing NISP, similar to NIF as NDRF/RRF are.

Most of these are databased sources, you've seen PMARS (DOT) which handles the NDRF and RRF, RRF has its own operating authority with better data.

NIF and NISP are separate operations though within the US Navy, this needs to be clarified.

Importing a full list of the vessels, types, etc, is quite a simple task, though there are at least 8 contradicting sources for this from authorities.

Marad handles both the NIF and non-nuclear (not cold and hot, only removed) storage except where NIF is operating (usually with RRF) at an active military base

The pattern is typically quite obvious, active civilian or army/navy service, NIF/NISP and RRF, then to NDRF and NISP/NIF inactive...

However, each of these timelines, some MARAD have been there for half a century, others switch between the fleets and service (gulf war, etc), are interrelated.

A category or template box need to be set up to categorize and sort these, obvious data is the actual vessel (always use original name, see SS Norway example) and redirect the newer names and intermediate IDs to the original with a sub section.

Given the suisun bay vs NDRF treehugger court case in two weeks, the clemenceau UN case this coming week, and the problems with the scrappers recently, these should really be cleaned up asap.

I have a database of the vessels in full, its being reactivated and the current data from all sources imported, however its unknown if all sources (obviously not) are public domain from journals or histories, so exporting more than the facts from .mil / .gov will be troubling to filter.

Obviously auto-generation of the historical data is possible, let me know asap how to best do this.

basicly all the vessels need to have the same template for their histories, why this has never been standardized is beyond my comprehension.

bluenorway@gmail.com and via notes.

(though slightly different in their intl classification, Aircraft Boneyard needs to be handled in the similar manner, even if the aircraft/tailnumbers are simply a table in a list page)

Scraps, feel free to clean Hurricane Gustav[edit]

New topic for each incident/major category?[edit]

agreed, however the canal needs to emphasize both the major problems (like katrina) and the economic and continuity of operation equally...

There is very little information about the canal's operation in general, this should be added

is there a standard form template for mass incidents like this which can be coppied for a gustav section ?

i expect the court cases and the rest of the issues to be very public this coming week and historically relevant as they will be reorganizing environmental and uscg/fema enforcement next week...?

industrial canal/hurricane could be broken out especially with the major investigations and cleanup, otherwise should be crosslinked as major article to these —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluenorway (talk • contribs) 19:07, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the content from Industrial Canal because it is only tangentially relevant. The article is meant to be about the canal as a whole—to focus 50% of its content on one minor incident there is absurd. Besides, you already pasted the exact same text into the article on Hurricane Gustav, where is it much better suited. Plasticup ^T/C 19:11, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

MOVE TO http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Gustav#Vessels_in_the_Industrial_Canal —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluenorway (talk • contribs) 19:22, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You can NOT delete international vessels[edit]

those are boats. Their records are guaranteed by Wikipedia policy.

Advise you write something instead of destroying it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluenorway (talk • contribs) 20:43, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just because it exists does not mean that it is notable. You could start out by adding some content, followed by reliable sources. Right now it is just a blank page with some headings. Plasticup ^T/C 20:48, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There should be categories for the various vessel groups, I can not find them; the MARAD reserve fleet is a naval branch and should be a category, also you dont seem to realize that single incident is getting a massive inquiry and presidential order by next week. Its got to go somewhere. Source and historical data are listed for those two, obviously a short history from you will come quicker than the full reports from here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluenorway (talk • contribs) 21:05, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have any sources? I can't help your write this thing if I don't have any sources. Also I tidied up the two vessel articles. Plasticup ^T/C 21:07, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

there are approx 20 news explicitly referencing the topic, plus 14+ federal press releases or authorities as of ... 8 hours ago. news "industrial canal" "southern scrap" also search nola.com, there is a stockpile of links in the comments of http://nola.com/mystorm/ from /01/ through current, likely the best collection while press media is under gag order unfortionately. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluenorway (talk • contribs) 21:24, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That appears to be some sort of message board, which does not meet Wikipedia's standard of a reliable source. Can you elaborate about this gag order? What court placed a gag order, and for what reason? Plasticup ^T/C 21:27, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Gustav Incidents[edit]

You know wikipedia is horribly inefficient, and the exponential time required waiting on it to update correctly inhibits populating data, no less writing appropriately. Go through the hurricane page and offload the larger topics to the Incidents page before the entire Hurricane Gustav gets erased as "insignificant" -- also you should include references, hint, boat names when you simplify things excessively. ?;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluenorway (talk • contribs) 20:54, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

When the article Hurricane Gustav gets too large we will likely split off Effects of Hurricane Gustav in Louisiana. Maybe we will use Effects of Hurricane Gustav in the Caribbean. Your "split" does not improve the article. Firstly, the current article is not big enough to warrant being split up. Secondly, you are not separating content into intuitive groups. An article about "incidents" doesn't add any organization to the topic at large. Plasticup ^T/C 20:59, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bluenorway (talk) 15:51, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bluenorway (talk) 15:55, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

New topic for each incident/major category?[edit]

agreed, however the canal needs to emphasize both the major problems (like katrina) and the economic and continuity of operation equally...

There is very little information about the canal's operation in general, this should be added

is there a standard form template for mass incidents like this which can be coppied for a gustav section ?

i expect the court cases and the rest of the issues to be very public this coming week and historically relevant as they will be reorganizing environmental and uscg/fema enforcement next week...?

Vessels in the Industrial Canal[edit]

You added this huge, un-sourced section to Hurricane Gustav. I don't see how most of that information is relevant to the storm. Could you please explain it on the article's talk page? Plasticup ^T/C 19:03, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Bluenorway. You have new messages at Plasticup's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

MOVE TO http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Gustav#Vessels_in_the_Industrial_Canal

and will seed "Gustav Incidents"

Your recent edits[edit]

Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. If you can't type the tilde character, you should click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot (talk) 19:22, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The cut information is on the discussion page[edit]

I don't know enough about the controversy to edit the information, and advocates on both sides need to discuss this on the talk page and present relevant information. The BlueNorway information is not reliable and therefore those links were cut. WP:NotPlease sign your posts.PB666 ^yap 21:54, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A word of advice[edit]

I tried to salvage your page on Gustav Incidences, with a potential rename. Its probably not going to fly over the articles for deletion, It could be easily done for the incidence page but you have currently burnt a bridge. It is not that difficult to create pages on Wikipedia and have them _stick_. I have substantially more information now and I have a sandbox page, if it reaches critical mass I can recreate a page with that information. The problem is you can't just fly pages, no matter how notable, out of ____ ___. There are two things that greatly improve the chances a page is going to survive and other little gadgets that help.

Use a sandbox. Sandboxes are sub-pages on your user page that are used to develop pages. I have several at the moment, I use sandbox proto-pages more frequently now just to take a few days off from a page an re-read it for syntax (otherwise you get a clean up tag). I have seen all kinds of BS on wikipedia 'flying' because the creator took the time to make his favorite BS interesting.
Footnote factual information. That does not mean sources, one can have sources for a page, but sentences should be individually referenced. The references should contain the link and the pages name in brackets </ref>http:\www.whatever.link whatever page] pages site and other source information</ref> references can be given names <ref name = "Silly MARAD">the reference</ref> and repeated with <ref name = "Silly MARAD"/>
Pages require either work or skill, for most newbies its alot of work. Some pages I created are still undergoing major revisions after a year. As you become more skilled you know which things to focus on early in page development that make future expansions easier.

In addition to these elements, WP:infoboxes can link your page to similar pages of similar notability. A ship page can have a ship infobox. And having an actual picture of the ship, like the courier substantially supports its notability. Not only does it increase the notability of the page, but it makes the page more meaningful to the viewer. Pages should be categorized, this also links pages to other topics, but class style templates interlinks the pages with pages of other similar things and really adds to the 'what links here' and avoids orphans. For example having a picture of the courier with the same form factor and name as the ship shown in video of the incident greatly increased the reliability of the claim that the ship was mis-named by MARAD. That greatly beats ranting and raving on 5 different pages.PB666 ^yap 21:35, 6 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

BOT NOTES[edit]

Speedy deletion of Gustav Incidents[edit]

A tag has been placed on Gustav Incidents requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that a copy be emailed to you. Morbidthoughts (talk) 19:31, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion of Katrina Incidents[edit]

A tag has been placed on Katrina Incidents requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that a copy be emailed to you. Morbidthoughts (talk) 19:33, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletion of Gustav Incidents[edit]

A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Gustav Incidents, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised because even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. –Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 19:35, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

AfD nomination of Gustav Incidents[edit]

I have nominated Gustav Incidents, an article you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gustav Incidents. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. –Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 20:29, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Katrina Incidents[edit]

A tag has been placed on Katrina Incidents, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. If you plan to expand the article, you can request that administrators wait a while for you to add contextual material. To do this, affix the template {{hangon}} to the article and state your intention on the article's talk page. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Plasticup ^T/C 20:38, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

ya, drop Katrina_incidents until gustav topic is stable and categories are established. suggest you help with that.

No thanks, we already have an article on Hurricane Gustav. Plasticup ^T/C 20:43, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

American Explorer (T-AOT-165)[edit]

A tag has been placed on American Explorer (T-AOT-165), requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. If you plan to expand the article, you can request that administrators wait a while for you to add contextual material. To do this, affix the template {{hangon}} to the article and state your intention on the article's talk page. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Plasticup ^T/C 20:40, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Export Courier (T-AK-5019)[edit]

A tag has been placed on Export Courier (T-AK-5019), requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. If you plan to expand the article, you can request that administrators wait a while for you to add contextual material. To do this, affix the template {{hangon}} to the article and state your intention on the article's talk page. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Plasticup ^T/C 20:41, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Bluenorway. You have new messages at Plasticup's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Questions[edit]

Why are you trying to pass off what you've typed in your userspace on your userpage as the official naming conventions? Please see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (ships) and propose any changes on the talk page there. Please DO NOT CONTINUE TO PLACE LINKS to your userpage on articles that relate to the topic and the talk pages of projects. -MBK₀₀₄ 17:57, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Suggest you do the job correctly.Bluenorway (talk) 18:08, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletion of Gordon M Snow[edit]

The article Gordon M Snow has been proposed for deletion because under Wikipedia policy, all biographies of living persons created after March 18, 2010, must have at least one source that directly supports material in the article.

If you created the article, please don't take offense. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see Wikipedia:Referencing for beginners or ask at Wikipedia:Help desk. Once you have provided at least one reliable source, you may remove the {{prod blp}} tag. Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced. If you cannot provide such a source within ten days, the article may be deleted, but you can request that it be undeleted when you are ready to add one. RadioFan (talk) 17:16, 26 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]