User talk:Epeefleche

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Phishing Alert[edit]

Those who happen by this page may wish to be on the alert for efforts to hack into their private email accounts.

As happened to one wikipedia editor, as described in short here.--Epeefleche (talk) 02:19, 1 March 2011 (UTC)


I noticed your name and Sportswoman of the Year Award pop up on my watchlist. I think this could be an FL without a tremendous amount of work, though the scope needs to expand and include the 1980-1992 professional and amateur award winners. Interested in working together to get it there? Courcelles 10:34, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Sure thing! Sounds like a fine idea. Best.--Epeefleche (talk) 14:21, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Great, I'll try to get the other tables in by the weekend. Courcelles 16:06, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Let me know if I owe you anything on this.--Epeefleche (talk) 17:55, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Interaction ban on Wjemather[edit]

I have closed the thread and imposed an interaction ban on Wjemather. I doubt the advice is needed but: avoid interacting with him, even though the sanction is technically not two way. FWIW I feel there was no consensus to block him at this time, esp. as it is something of a "one-off" since the last block he had (and I am inclined to mark it down as a last chance). Hopefully by not interacting that simply solves the problem. Cheers. :) --Errant (chat!) 00:04, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Place of birth in lead[edit]

Epeefleche, wanted to get back to you on message about place of birth in the lead of articles. Most of the high-quality biography articles, ones rated Good Article or Featured class, seem to omit place of birth/death from the parenthetical opening to the lead. Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies) appears to support that practice as well. I agree with the omission because it makes the leads cleaner looking. Place of birth/death can be listed in the infobox and should be integrated where appropriate into the body of the article or farther down in the lead if important enough. Jweiss11 (talk) 17:44, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

RFC discussion of User:Philip Baird Shearer[edit]

A request for comments has been filed concerning the conduct of Philip Baird Shearer (talk · contribs). You are invited to comment on the discussion at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Philip Baird Shearer. -- Parrot of Doom 11:01, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Brunette Models|concern=A7[edit]

I don't agree that Brunette Models is proposed that this article has been deleted. This team is very significant in Poland. Is played in Europe, the U.S. and worldwide. It is one of the precursors of ambient-style music in Poland. Sorry, does the proposal to remove is because Brunette Models has a Jewish origin and he has problems with the organization of the Nazi Redwatch? Maybe the same person suggests the deletion of Wikipedia, and that other one portal?

Thanks and regards! Γραφή (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:58, 22 May 2011 (UTC).

No, I'm not seeking to delete the article because of an anti-Semitic leaning on my part, driving me to delete the article because the band has a Jewish origin. And no, I am not seeking to delete the article because of any personal bias on my part in favor of Nazi organizations.--Epeefleche (talk) 19:07, 24 May 2011 (UTC)


As I see you ventured boldly into a whole hornet's nest of underdeveloped band artciles. After some thought I agree with your work: if someone cares about them, they must take care. Otherwise wikipedia may quickly turn into a source of misinformation, since it is often blindly copied in multitudes, especiallty for little known topics. Muslim lo Juheu (talk) 17:36, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, your take is correct. I'm a fan of bands, and fully supportive of us having good articles. And, as you can tell, my primary focus on wp is content creation. Having articles on bands that do not meet our standards waters down the helpfulness of the project, IMHO. But I would always prefer to have support for notability discovered, and an article kept. And this area is one that does appear to attract more non-notable articles than many other areas. Your note is especially appreciated, of course, as we have different views as to one particular band article. Best.--Epeefleche (talk) 19:16, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Pancake images[edit]

You're welcome. And thanks for informing me of that; I wasn't aware that MoS had a guideline for that. What's ironic is that I myself don't generally care for sandwiching images like that, but in trying to make the images work in that article, I thought they ended up looking all right. Can you link me to the relevant MoS page? I'll look it over and remove some of the images if need be. Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 23:02, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

I appreciate your discretion and even-handedness. I particularly appreciate the MoS link, largely because I have now discovered the Picture Tutorial, which shows me how to co-align images, which I've never gotten around to learning how to do. Thanks! Nightscream (talk) 23:40, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

new articles - Israel project[edit]

Hi Epeefleche - since you've recently added a whole bunch of new articles, I've listed them here. It would be really great if you could list them yourself, though, since it takes a while for them to show up on the radar. --Sreifa (talk) 06:32, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Shopping centers[edit]

I've declined your A7 speedy deletion requests of La Molina Plaza, Istana Plaza Bandung, and Hyatt Plaza. Shopping centers are not eligible for the A7 speedy deletion criterion, as it is specifically limited to companies/organizations, among other specific categories. You are free to take them to PROD/AfD if you still believe that they should be deleted.--Slon02 (talk) 04:28, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

To my knowledge, shopping centers are companies, partnerships, or some other form of organization (e.g., LLC or LLP). The shopping center tenants pay rent to the landlord organization.--Epeefleche (talk) 04:33, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
Pardon me for butting in; I saw this after reading the reply to my message above. My guess is that whether or not a mall is a company would depend. Where I used to live in the US, most malls were owned by a larger management company, like Westfield Group. This would mean that each mall is actually the branch of a company (like a single location of a corporate owned store, like Walmart). Oddly enough, it almost seems like that means it's not eligible for A7, because the criteria specifies "organization", not "organization or its sub-divisions". That is quite a counter-intuitive idea--it would mean that an article on something like Tax Working Group of the Second Accounting Division of the U.S. Division of Multinational X would technically not qualify under A7. Unless you already know of precedent, perhaps it would be helpful to seek clarification from WT:CSD, and maybe even a re-write of the policy. Qwyrxian (talk) 01:36, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
It is not uncommon for companies to have subsidiary companies, to firewall risk. A subsidiary would be an organization. In any event, either way, it is an organization. The organization is the entity that signs the contracts -- such as lease agreements to the shops. Hence this sentence in Yahoo Finance describing the company: "Westfield Group, through its subsidiaries, operates as a retail property group in Australia, the United States, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom." --Epeefleche (talk) 05:15, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

List of hurdlers[edit]

You are a very active wikipedian, but please, butt out of a subject you do not know. This list IS poorly maintained, but there are legitimate entries here that need to be researched and have articles written, not arbitrarily deleted based on policy and your lack of knowledge. I have restored two such entries, one that had an article, the other that legitimately should have an article under WP:Athlete. Leaving a name here will possibly encourage an editor (maybe me but I've got my plate full too) to write an article about this subject. The point being, do further research before you delete content. Trackinfo (talk) 07:48, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Please see WP:LISTPEOPLE, WP:V, WP:BURDEN, and WP:BLP. For a name of a person to be in a list of people, it should have a blue-link or a ref. The burden is on the editor seeking to restore the blp's name to a list -- and the name should not have been added to the list in the first place (I see some of these redlinks hark back to 2005), in accord with wp:LISTPEOPLE, if it lacks both a wp article and appropriate refs.--Epeefleche (talk) 07:52, 24 February 2012 (UTC)


Bästa nyskrivna.svg 100000 Edits
Congratulations on reaching 100000 edits. You have achieved a milestone that very few editors have been able to accomplish. The Wikipedia Community thanks you for your continuing efforts. Keep up the good work!

If you like you can add this userbox to your collection.

Bästa nyskrivna.svg This user has been awarded with the 100000 Edits award.

```Buster Seven Talk 14:51, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Original Barnstar Hires.png The Original Barnstar
For your commitment to WP:V! bobrayner (talk) 21:42, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Bashar al-Shatti[edit]

(X! · talk)  · @181  ·  00:03, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

A kitten for you![edit]


Maybe this kitty :D

ClaudeReigns (talk) 04:48, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

GA Thanks[edit]

Symbol support vote.svg This user helped promote the article Jason Kipnis to good article status.

On behalf of WP:CHICAGO, I would like to thank you for your editorial contributions to Jason Kipnis, which has recently become a GA. --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:49, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Brilliant Idea Barnstar Hires.png The Brilliant Idea Barnstar
Thanks for your guidance. Way2veers (talk) 03:38, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Barnstar of Humour Hires.png The Barnstar of Good Humor
Just wanted to say that this made me smile. – Philosopher Let us reason together. 07:09, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Beyond My Ken[edit]


Hi. Please don't change "Theatre District" to "Theater District". The vast majority of legit theatres in Manhattan and New York City use the older spelling. Thanks. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:14, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

You're just floundering around on a subject you don't know shit about[edit]

You edited Morosco Theatre, and its just an article to you, but it happens to be the first Broadway theatre I did a show at. Go edit something you understand. Beyond My Ken (talk) 09:24, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

What in the world are you talking about?
I made these edits to the article. Where is the floundering you accuse me of? What in that edit do you feel suggests a paucity of knowledge, resulting in a deficient edit? Rather than an improvement?
And what is your comment about, to the effect that I "don't know shit" about the subject? And that "its just an article to [me]." What in my dearth of knowledge impeded the accuracy of my edit? What is wrong with the article just being an article to me? Isn't that normal?
And what's the point of "it happens to be the first Broadway theatre I did a show at"? Are you suggesting you own the article? And others, who do not have a personal involvement with the subject of the article should, as you put it "go edit" articles other than ones as to which you have an attachment?--Epeefleche (talk) 09:45, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
"I'm curious" you say, that the New York Times called it the Mark Hellinger Theater - well, they fucked it up, because before it was sold to be church it was the Mark Hellinger Theatre. Face it, you really don't know anything about this subject, and you're just hoping against hope that some evidence will come to light to support your position. Well, I'm here to tell you that I've spent the lasyt 30 years of my life working in the theatre in New York City (Broadway, Off-Broadway and Off-Off-Broadway) and it's irrelevant if the spell-checker flags "theatre" as being a misspelling, that's what it's called here. If you had a semblence of a clue, you'd know that. Beyond My Ken (talk) 09:50, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
You really are clueless, aren't you? Pity. Beyond My Ken (talk) 09:51, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
You haven't responded to my above questions.--Epeefleche (talk) 09:54, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Well, you are a little pissant.....[edit]

...aren't you? [1] Fuck you, asshole. Your Asperger's is not a "get out of jail free" card. Beyond My Ken (talk) 11:37, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

  • BMK -- This post by you follows (among other similar posts) your above post here. I understand that you probably didn't mean to cause me pain, but I feel that this and your prior posts were hurtful and uncivil. I've tolerated them in the past. But you have simply continued, with this most recent post. Please strike out your uncivil comments. Thank you.--Epeefleche (talk) 02:20, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

MOS is a *guideline*[edit]

and not policy, and need not be followed robotically. WP:IAR allows us leeway to improve things if we can. Do not edit war over style formatting, it's not exempt from 3RR. Just don't go there. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:16, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

You are the one edit-warring. You keep reverting from the first format chosen in the article. Which was completely appropriate. And what MOS calls for. There is zero reason to ignore MOS. And to change it from the first format used in the article, to boot. IAR is not license to ignore MOS without any good reason, just because you like it another way, and edit-war to change the format from the original one. For what appears to be no logical reason -- you are just adding needless words, that add nothing, and are non-MOS.--Epeefleche (talk) 02:18, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

WikiProject Cleanup[edit]

Hello, Epeefleche.

You are invited to join WikiProject Cleanup, a WikiProject and resource for Wikipedia cleanup listings, information and discussion.
To join the project, just add your name to the member list. Northamerica1000(talk) 14:29, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

  • Thanks for signing on with the project, and feel free to post articles for clean-up there! Northamerica1000(talk) 22:44, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Outcome of the discussion at user request for comments[edit]

Hello, Epeefleche. The RFC/USER discussion at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Epeefleche has been closed.

The outcome was: There is a clear consensus here on two main points: a) that Epeefleche is broadly correct to remove unsourced content; b) that Danjel has often acted wrongly in restoring unsourced content.
There was also a clear consensus that Danjel had previously been made aware of the community's support for the core policy of WP:V, and had previously been advised at ANI to desist from reinstating unsourced material.
The result was that Danjel's opening of this RFC amounted to shooting themself in the foot. The consensus is that Epeefleche has acted correctly in support of WP:ONUS, and the problem here is with Danjel's conduct; there was strong support for describing this conduct as WP:HOUNDING.

-- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:33, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Well earned:[edit]

WikiMedal for Janitorial Services.png Silk Purse Award
I am both pleased and honored to present you with the Silk Purse Award in appreciation for your superb improvements to the Ido Pariente article... taking a stub that did not properly inform a reader and building it into something that far better serves both the project and its readers,[2] essentially changing what was seen as a sow's ear into a terrific silk purse. As your improvements were more than a 15x expension, I encourage you to now nominate this with DYK for mainpage. Well done! Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 02:01, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

WikiProject Christianity Newsletter April 2013[edit]

Ichthus dark yellow.png


April 2013

Membership report
The parent Christianity WikiProject currently has 357 active members. We would like to welcome our newest members, Thomas Cranmer, Mr.Oglesby, and Sneha Priscilla. Thank you all for your interest in this effort. We would be able to achieve nothing here without the input of all of you. If any members, new or not, wish any assistance, they should feel free to leave a message at the Christianity noticeboard or with me or other individual editors to request it.

By John Carter

Featured content and GA report
Since the last report;

Grade I listed churches in Cumbria was promoted to Featured List status, thanks to Peter I. Vardy, and the image above of the Church of Saint Ildefonso was promoted to featured picture status.

Also these past months, the DYKs on the main page included St Mary's Church, Cleobury Mortimer by Peter I. Vardy; Marion Irvine by Giants2008; Margaret McKenna by Guerillero; Archdiocesan Cathedral of the Holy Trinity by Epeefleche; St Edith's Church, Eaton-under-Heywood by Peter I. Vardy; Vester Egesborg Church by Ipigott, Rosiestep, Nvvchar, and Dr. Blofeld; Undløse Church by Ipigott, Rosiestep, Nvvchar, and Dr. Blofeld; St Martin's Church, Næstved by Ipigott, Rosiestep, Nvvchar, and Dr. Blofeld; St. Peter, Syburg by Gerda Arendt and Dr. Blofeld; Østre Porsgrunn Church by Strachkvas; Church of Our Saviour (Mechanicsburg, Ohio) by Nyttend; Dami Mission by Freikorp; Mechanicsburg Baptist Church by Nyttend; Acheiropoietos Monastery, by Proudbolsahye; T. Lawrason Riggs, by Gareth E Kegg; McColley's Chapel, by Mangoe; Oświęcim Chapel, by BurgererSF; Second Baptist Church (Mechanicsburg, Ohio), by Nyttend; Church of the Holy Ghost, Tallinn, by Yakikaki; Old Stone Congregational Church, by Orladyl Heath Chapel, by Peter I. Vardy; St. Joseph's Church, Beijing, by Bloom6132; Church of St Bartholomew, Yeovilton, by Rodw; and St. Michael's Catholic Church (Mechanicsburg, Ohio) also by Nyttend. Our profoundest thanks and congratulations to all those involved!

Help requests
Please let us know if there are any particular areas, either individual articles or topics, which you believe would benefit from outside help from a variety of other editors. We will try to include such requests in future issues.

Ichthus is the newsletter of Christianity on Wikipedia • It is published by WikiProject Christianity
For submissions contact the Newsroom • To unsubscribe add yourself to the list here
EdwardsBot (talk) 12:30, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you[edit]

Rescuebarnstar.png The Article Rescue Barnstar
For finding so many excellent sources on Ralph Gracie, thus saving him from certain deletion. Luchuslu (talk) 20:29, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Athlon Sports Communications[edit]

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Athlon Sports Communications requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about an organization or company, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, you can place a request here. Uncletomwood (talk) 09:41, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

A cookie for you![edit]

Choco chip cookie.png I am sorry,guess i need a bit more time... thank you for your criticism,i will take it positively Uncletomwood (talk) 08:37, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Frgewhqwth and unsourced material[edit]

I thought you might like to know that I've opened a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:Frgewhqwth and unsourced material—hate to poke my nose in, but I thought the situation merited it. —Ignatzmicetalkcontribs 23:31, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Just so you know, in reference to your question to Fregehqwth, I extended his block to editing his own talk page, after I saw that he was abusing that privilege. Nightscream (talk) 19:33, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks.--Epeefleche (talk) 22:15, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Team Barnstar Hires.png The Teamwork Barnstar
For your work on Boston Marathon bombings. Bearian (talk) 22:23, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Stephen Hannock[edit]

Holy shit. Drmies (talk) 15:46, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Yup.--Epeefleche (talk) 18:39, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

A kitten for you![edit]

Red Kitten 01.jpg

For keeping on on recent edits to Daniel Squadron. Thanks! :)-- (talk) 07:26, 16 October 2013 (UTC)


Cornflower blue Yogo sapphire.jpg

notable lists

Thank you, tirelessly working editor, for quality articles such as Miriam Roth, for reserving lists of people to the notable, for coming to the rescue of articles, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:57, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Michael Russell (tennis)[edit]

Nice work expanding this! Keep up the good work. Ruby 2010/2013 19:17, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your support on reflist[edit]

Thanks for the support that you have extended on the Template talk:Reflist#Basis 30em standard for multiple column discussion. I thought that it is almost obvious that one would like to split references into two columns (at least). But other than you, nobody else even acknowledged my findings or justified it. Criticism is always welcome but definitely it should be of substance rather than reflecting a sense of rigiditiy. I primarily edit Wikipedia when a gap becomes apparent to me. Since you are a senior editor, I would be glad if you guide me when the situation demands. DiptanshuTalk 06:35, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

50 DYK Creation and Expansion Medal[edit]

Dyk50CE.svg The 50 DYK Creation and Expansion Medal
Please accept this belated barnstar. Thanks for your tireless contributions to the DYK project and Wikipedia in general! -Zanhe (talk) 01:54, 2 February 2014 (UTC)


Hi Epeefleche,

Sorry to bother you -- I undertand you are an expert on NPOV issues.

I was told (I think?) that I have been engaging in a slow edit war since Januay 29, 2014 with two other editors who have reverted material I added to an article. I believe the material I added is in accordance with Wikipedia principles and I do not understand why my edit is being reverted.

Can you offer any advice on the talk page in question. Thanks in advance, XOttawahitech (talk) 14:48, 23 February 2014 (UTC)


Dear Epeefleche,

Why did you undo all of my work of hours? Indiggo's wikipedia has to be neutral and fair to their accomplishments. All my sources were relevant and from reputable sites. What you are trying to do is diminish and minimize their work. Please, revert my changes.

Thank you, Dany4444 (talk) 20:42, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

You are a single-purpose editor, who upon being created immediately started editing -- in similar fashion -- an article at AfD where there has been edit warring in the past, and ducking sock behavior. You can't add uncited material, as you did. You can't add material using wikis as a source, which you did. You can't add other non-RSs, as you did. You can't add material that is not supported by RSs, which you did. I already left you information on your talkpage as to your errors and how to edit correctly. Also -- have you ever edited before, under a different name or IP address?Epeefleche (talk) 20:45, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestions. I will delete all the wiki references. Thank you for pointing that out. I edited trying to give a most accurate image of the Indiggo duo.

Many thanks. Dany4444 (talk) 21:45, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Have you ever edited Wikipedia before, under a different name or IP address? --Epeefleche (talk) 21:47, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

No, I have never edited Wikipedia before. I am trying to do constructive editing, verified, and with significant and just facts. There were many errors. I'm just trying to help and present a neutral point of view that highlights the American facts.

I started editing because I was surprised by the differences from wikipedia and other sources.

Many thanks. Dany4444 (talk) 22:10, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm sorry your editing led to an indef block. Epeefleche (talk) 05:06, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Taj Anwar[edit]

If you have time, could you please help edit the Taj_Anwar page? (talk) 19:36, 7 April 2014 (UTC)


Hello Epeefleche, A while ago you did some good work on this article; I wonder if you could have a look some time at the very recent additions, which don't seem very clear to me. Thanks, Ericoides (talk) 06:14, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Cal South[edit]

Hi, you recently deleted my Cal South article because there weren't any primary sources. I don't know how to undelete an article. Could you please do it for me so I can add sources? If they don't fall under Wikipedia guidelines, then you can feel free to delete the article. Thanks.--Bowser2500 (talk) 07:23, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Hi -- I would suggest you check with the sysop who deleted that article, Tawker, and ask him/her for assistance. --Epeefleche (talk) 07:27, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
Ok, thanks :)--Bowser2500 (talk) 07:27, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
Please take a look at the difference in edits before you click undo. I have added credible references that you're deleting on the Cal South page.--Bowser2500 (talk) 22:18, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
I've responded on your talk page -- fresh off your recent three blocks, and operating on final warning, you continue to violate wp:v. --Epeefleche (talk) 22:22, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
I'm sorry that you did not heed your warnings, and are now blocked for the fourth time in the past two months. Epeefleche (talk) 06:57, 22 April 2014 (UTC)


Hi Epeefleche, I stumbled upon an article created by this editor, only to find many non-notable/borderlines. Due to the number, I wondered if you'd like to comment, and if so would you consider commenting on the creator's talk page? Widefox; talk 11:28, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

In response to your email[edit]

I see the tag as about encouraging editors to look for additional sources to expand a very brief article. It doesn't pass judgement on the current source but suggests that more could be done to improve and expand it. There's nothing stopping you removing it if it bothers you, in fact I'm not sure why you felt the need to email me privately about this and tell me I was 'inappropriate' which I don't see that I was. I was just tackling some of the overdue unreviewed articles. Mabalu (talk) 15:18, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

I didn't want to publicly embarrass you ... sometimes editors who make a mistake would prefer that it be pointed out in private. But substantively, as to the tag -- it is not a tag to be used by an editor to suggest expansion. It is a tag to be used only when the sources are insufficient to support the text, in a blp. That's why it states: "This biographical article needs additional citations for verification. There was no such need in that article, and it is therefore not an appropriate tag for that article. It suggests a deficit in the article, that does not exist, and this is not helpful to readers of the article who will as a result question its validity. That simply clearly isn't the case. I would urge you to remove it. Epeefleche (talk) 17:20, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
That's fair enough - removed it. Mabalu (talk) 11:15, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
Many thanks. Epeefleche (talk) 18:57, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

May 2014[edit]

sorry about reverting the edits on university of education didn't look closely enough and thought it was vandalism, my apologies.
Gamemaster eleven (talk) 05:03, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

No worries. Welcome to wikipedia. Enjoy your time here. --Epeefleche (talk) 05:04, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Nathaniel Albert Eaton[edit]

He's new, he admits a COI, he actually sounds like a pretty reasonable guy, he just doesn't know our policies. Policies aren't very intuitive to someone trying to add info that they know to be true but don't have sources. Since you are editing the same articles, could you help him along for a few days rather than template? You aren't incorrect in your assessments of what should be sourced and such, you and I agree, but I think if you help him along a bit, it would be tremendously helpful. He is a writer for a magazine, so he obviously has some skill and would be very helpful here, he just doesn't know how the place works. If you could, I would consider it a personal favor. Dennis Brown |  | WER 12:12, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Understood and agreed as to most. He does for some reason seem to be re-adding material he should not be re-adding, even after it is explained to him (by both of us) what the rules are. Hopefully he will take a moment to read them. I believe between us we have left him 8 messages, and many of them point to the relevant rules. Best. Epeefleche (talk) 17:49, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
He writes for a living, he might think "I know what the hell I'm doing and I know this is true", which gets in the way of communications sometimes. Our policies are there for a damn good reason, but it isn't obvious to newcomers who have no idea how much vandalism and BS edits you and I have to deal with. But he does have some skill, so worth the time to help him get up to speed. We can always use someone who knows how to write properly......once they understand the policies. Thanks, btw, the extra time is much better than a template. Ping me if you need. Dennis Brown |  | WER 18:05, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
I completely agree that our rules aren't intuitive. And that a typical person -- without having read our rules -- would not think that they can't write "what they know." Professional writers, generally, are familiar with the notion of sources. He wrote (many years ago(?)) for High Times; it's not clear to me that he is now a writer. Generally, though, I find professional writers are also capable readers. And the 8 messages we've left him have material that, were he to read the material, would outline the way forward for him. I agree that were he to finally read it, he could be a helpful editor. And I'm happy to see ... even if it takes more communications, with much the same content ... if some more pointing to and explaining our rules can help. There is also, as you point out, the COI issue, which I hope he takes to heart. Best. Epeefleche (talk) 18:20, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: Agah Bahari[edit]

Hello Epeefleche. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Agah Bahari, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: Article claims coverage in reliable sources. Thank you. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 20:40, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

"American University of Asia"[edit]

Not an A1 either. I suggest we take it to AfD, so that anyone Google-ing up "Wikipedia American University of Asia" can find out we have deleted it as the complete scam it obviously is. Your thoughts? --Shirt58 (talk) 13:33, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. Best. --Epeefleche (talk) 02:25, 27 May 2014 (UTC)


Do not remove unsourced material from an article and then tag it as an A7. Speedy deletions do not depend on sourcing, and the method you occasionally use is manipulative of the process.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:43, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Unsourced material that is challenged is subject to deletion per wp:v, and unsourced and unsourcable material is not the basis for demonstrating notability of an article (whether or not it is in the text of an article -- that confuses two separate issues). We are not a repository of unsourced/unsourcable claims. --Epeefleche (talk) 18:33, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
You can delete the unsourced material, but then nominate it for deletion, don't tag it. It's an end-run around the deletion processes and is unacceptable.--Bbb23 (talk) 18:49, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
I fail to follow you. Unsourced material may be tagged. Unsourced material may be challenged. Unsourced material may be deleted. You can't be militating against any of that. This is clearly part of wp:v, and wp:v is at the core of the integrity of the project. If we are agreed on this, we move on to the second issue. Once an article is cleaned, by material violative of wp:v being deleted, which is totally appropriate (there is not "end run" in removing material that should not have been added in the first place), the article is subject to the full panoply of the deletion process -- as appropriate, either speedy or prod or AfD. The two -- application of wp:v and consideration of the article for deletion =-- are unrelated, though the cleaning of the article allows people to be aware that perhaps they wish to look for other support for verifiability of notable facts, so there is a benefit to that taking place first. You can't however take a non-notable article and militate against deletion of unsourced and unsourcable claims in the article. There's no defense for material violative of wp:v, and especially when it violates blp it is simply inappropriate. Epeefleche (talk) 18:57, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
I'll see if I can get another administrator to chime in and perhaps communicate the problem more clearly. I'm reluctant to take you to ANI over this, but, in my view, your actions are disruptive, and you appear not to understand that.--Bbb23 (talk) 19:16, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
Ah -- I see from what you wrote here, that your concern is if an editor takes the step of "immediately tag[ing] the article as an A7" after unsourced material that might otherwise be significant enough to withstand an A7 is deleted. I don't think I do that typically, and I don't have an issue with that. Though you didn't clarify it above -- only in your indicated note. --Epeefleche (talk) 01:29, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Here are three articles: Avni Anıl, Athina Malagardi, and Angela Oberer. Now you may quibble with "immediately" because date-wise there was space in between your deletion and your tag, but your tag was the "immediate" edit after the deletion. Regardless, you're missing the point, which is addressed better below by Drmies and Yngvadottir. The issue is whether the material you removed would have triggered a decline of the A7, and by your edits, you compel an admin to look at the history and examine all that. This is a speedy delete, and I don't always look at the history unless something catches my eye. Nor should I have to in cases like yours. If you want to do it properly, restore the unsourced material and tag it for speedy, or leave it out and nominate it or prod it.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:55, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
By immediate, I thought you meant (and I mean) temporally proximate. I agree with the general concept -- see here -- and see that the three examples there have under a month apart. I think longer would be better, and agree that immediate is not as good -- the reason being that a main purpose of the deletion is to allow editors to focus on the possibility of adding relevant rs supported info. And I don't have any issue with that at all. I generally don't tag an article I've touched within the month (whether or not there are intervening edits by others), though in those cases you are correct that that was the case (three weeks or so). In general, articles always have additions and deletions (and those are part of speedy review), but I think it is generally a good practice to give the article some time for improvement. I wouldn't suggest to any editor that they restore deleted non-RS-supported information, as you suggest one could do, because that violates wp:burden if it fails to have an RS inline cite, though if one does have it then by all means such addition if helpful. PROD is a good approach -- I'll give that some thought. Epeefleche (talk) 02:07, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
DGG can say this much better than me, no doubt. But the standard for declining a speedy deletion is much lower than for "ordinary" deletion. It is necessary only to see a believable claim to some importance, whether that claim is verified or not. So any admin is free to, for instance, browse through the history to see what was removed before and take that into account. But that is bothersome, of course, and if not disruptive, it's at least irritating. Removing ridiculous stuff, sure; removing unsourced stuff, not so helpful. Drmies (talk) 20:55, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
Here's the flip side of what Drmies just wrote: speedy deletion is for clear-cut cases, because it puts the entire onus on one admin to decide whether the article is worth saving. There are too few admins, and in any case we're all volunteers with other demands on our time - chances are high that the history will not be checked over looking for deleted material that might cast the topic in a different light. (Plus by making such a check necessary you're increasing the workload of the admins ... ) If it's truly a speedy deletion candidate, tag it and let the admin make the quick decision and delete it. Don't fiddle with it first and complicate things. Otherwise, we have other processes for a reason - and then it's more urgent to excise unreferenced defamatory material while the longer processes run. Yngvadottir (talk) 21:04, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
Yep. Epeefleche, anytime we delete something we run the risk of getting yelled at. Defamatory material, that's another matter of course, especially in the case of a BLP (but then A7 probably isn't appropriate). Just let us make the call: admins get in hot water easily enough already. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 14:27, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Hi Drmies. What you say is of course true. There's probably a divide, with some people being more partial to the inclusion of unreferenced material, and others more against it, and wp:v stating the general consensus view. Because of what you point to, I'm often slower than I might be to delete unreferenced material -- even slower than what wp:v describes as appropriate. And no doubt, as you say, admins have the heavy lifting to do -- that's why they close deletion discussions. I also think it's a good thing -- which is why I don't boldly redirect articles that others would redirect, leaving the process to an admin or the community to act on. On the subject of speedy deletions, before nominating a page for speedy deletion we of course are supposed to consider whether it could be handled in some other way -- and among the other ways that we are supposed to consider is whether it should be reduced to a stub (that, in addition to improved, etc.). It's only after such consideration (which may take the place of deletions of non-wp:v material) that we should move on to speedy it. But a page is only eligible for speedy deletion if all of its revisions are also eligible - admins who follow the speedy rules always have to look at the revisions in this regard. Best. Epeefleche (talk) 15:18, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Alas, since my name was mentioned, I'm forced to admit that I do not always check the history if the article seems radically unsuitable. I should; I should do many things here more carefully, but the pressure of incoming articles and other work has always been too great for fully adequate checking, in comparison to the number of reasonably competent people doing it. I'm sure I've made errors because of this. I think the highest acceptable incorrect deletion error rate for an admin at CSD is 5% (depending on the utter obviousness of the articles dealt with). I think mine is about 1%--but even so over my 10,000 speedy deletions that comes to 100 wrongly deleted articles, of which perhaps 1/4 were noticed by others and rescued. I may not be happy about my failure to achieve perfection, but I've had many decades of life to get used to it. DGG ( talk ) 19:56, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for your usual humility and humor. Epeefleche (talk) 20:00, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: Caos Emergente[edit]

Hello Epeefleche. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Caos Emergente, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: Article survived a speedy deletion request in the past. Try WP:PROD or WP:AfD instead. Thank you. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 02:40, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Malik. But the speedy you refer to, if I am reading the history correctly, was removed by the article creator. Which is a no-no. If I'm correct, the incorrect removal of the speedy shouldn't I would think obviate a speedy here. Thoughts? Best. --Epeefleche (talk) 07:51, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
I removed the speedy tag because at the time the A7 criterion did not apply to events, so the request was groundless (I asked the user to take it to AfD, which he did not do). Frankly I do not care much about those old articles of mine, no one updated them in seven years so they are pretty useless. I will not oppose any deletion requests, speedy or otherwise. If you find any more bad festival articles like those, please don't spend the time to notify me, just go on and delete them. Mushroom (Talk) 09:35, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, Mushroom. @Malik -- under the circumstances, can we restore (and act upon) the speedy? @Mushroom -- alas the notification is automatic, when I prod or speedy an article. Feel free to ignore or delete it. Best. Epeefleche (talk) 09:39, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
Hi Epeefleche. I've deleted it. All the best, — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 19:17, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

KROK International Animated Films Festival[edit]

Frankly, a simple Google search would have been enough to verify the importance of this festival, and the fact that many of the top directors in the field visit it. I feel that your speedy deletion nomination was negligent. Esn (talk) 09:18, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

The visitors do not connote notability. When creating articles, please consider using RS refs, and reflecting notability. Tx.--Epeefleche (talk) 10:33, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi Epeefleche. I've opened a discussion about the deletion of these types of articles at Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion#Speedy deletion of articles about music and film festivals. Paul Erik (talk)(contribs) 19:56, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

85th Street (Manhattan)[edit]

I believe that the 85th Street (Manhattan) article should be redirected to List of numbered streets in Manhattan#85th Street. Not that it's notable, but it's extremely short and duplicates the entirety of that section. I will open a discussion at WT:NYC shortly so that other people may weigh in on this. Epicgenius (talk) 11:46, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. We have different views. Best. Epeefleche (talk) 18:15, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
I would urge you to reconsider the AfD you started here, on the basis of the comments at that AfD. Tx. --Epeefleche (talk) 20:01, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
Many thanks for -- after nominating it for AfD -- reconsidering, and for reviewing it at DYK. Impressive. --Epeefleche (talk) 05:32, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

A page you started (Musical Mutual Protective Union) has been reviewed![edit]

Thanks for creating Musical Mutual Protective Union, Epeefleche!

Wikipedia editor Carriearchdale just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Great article. Thanks!

To reply, leave a comment on Carriearchdale's talk page.

Learn more about page curation.

A barnstar for you![edit]

Original Barnstar Hires.png The Original Barnstar
For your work on 85th Street (Manhattan). Wow. Bearian (talk) 19:20, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Magic Circle Festival.[edit]

I am curious why Magic Circle Festival wasn't important enough to keep while,, To name a few metal festivals all have their own pages. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Will Decay (talkcontribs) 14:27, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi Epeefleche, I've restored this article and declined A7 on it... Manowar, WASP, Ted Nugent... 25,000 attendance... certainly credible assertions that it is a large festival (and therefore potentially notable). Catfish Jim and the soapdish 16:17, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
Hi Catfish -- I don't believe there is consensus support for your view that the fact that there is 25,000 attendance at a festival and it has certain bands is an indication that a festival is important or significant. Epeefleche (talk) 19:52, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
Nevertheless it's a credible assertion of importance (not a demonstration of notability as agreed by consensus) so ought to be taken to AFD if you feel it doesn't merit inclusion on WP. It really doesn't take much to pass CSD-A7. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 22:04, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
The issue has been discussed at length on the speedy page. Epeefleche (talk) 22:05, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
Yes, I have since contributed. The standards required for CSD-A7 are explained here: Wikipedia:Credible claim of significance Catfish Jim and the soapdish 22:22, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
Essays (such as what you point to) are not Wikipedia policies or guidelines. Some essays represent widespread norms; others only represent minority viewpoints; they may not in fact "explain" anything. I think the discussion at the policy here is key. Epeefleche (talk) 22:26, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

(stalking) I don't wish to wade in to an argument, particularly as I've just given my 2c at WT:CSD, but rather than arguing the case over what's "significant" or "notable", a far better thing to do is to dig out sources that cover the festival, and cite them, so the notability becomes unquestionable. The Daily Telegraph is particularly good at doing coverage. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:41, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

The problem with that is that the Daily Telegraph is unlikely to report on music festivals outside of Britain. A case in point is the Magic Circle Festival above... has notable, international bands playing at it, but it has been held in Germany, Slovenia and Finland. After trawling through online rock music magazines and german language editions of Metal Hammer, I'm inclined to suggest it's actually merged to Manowar as it's really them plus support, playing outdoors... the one year they tried to expand it, it was an unmitigated disaster. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 12:34, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
Catfish -- your merge inclination sounds reasonable. Best. Epeefleche (talk) 21:37, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Shopping centre AfD spree[edit]

Are you really that determined to get every single shopping centre article in Wikipedia deleted from the site (even the ones with reference sources, which you claim to be "unreliable" but are, in fact, not)? This is looking very reminiscent of your previous AfD deletion nomination sprees which ended up drawing heavy criticism against you from other posters and admins here. Creativity-II (talk) 03:17, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

  • What did I call a non-RS that you think is an RS? Are you referring to our discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bay Centre? I don't understand your claim, there, that primary sources and one-sentence mentions and non-RS blogs support a claim of notability, and think you are mistaken. --Epeefleche (talk) 05:54, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
"Primary" is not, and should not be, a bit of jargon used by Wikipedians to mean "bad" or "unreliable" or "unusable". While some primary sources are not fully independent, they can be authoritative, high-quality, accurate, fact-checked, expert-approved, subject to editorial control and published by a reputable publisher.

Primary sources can be reliable, and they can be used. Sometimes, a primary source is even the best possible source, such as when you are supporting a direct quotation. In such cases, the original document is the best source because the original document will be free of any errors or misquotations introduced by subsequent sources.

And under You are allowed to use primary sources... carefully in the same article:
Material based on primary sources can be valuable and appropriate additions to articles.
And in that subsection, from one of the examples:
An article about a business: The organization's own website is an acceptable (although possibly incomplete) primary source for information about what the company says about itself and for most basic facts about its history, products, employees, finances, and facilities.
About your claims of "non-reliable" sources, how does information (including photographs) that verifies the article (even if it comes from a forum or blog) not count as reliable as seen by you? Also, per Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Cost:
Reliable sources must be able to be verified. This does not mean that any particular person at any given moment must be capable of verifying them.
  • Verifiable sources may have time restrictions (only accessible between 10am and 4pm in a particular time zone).
  • Verifiable sources may have location restrictions (only available at one archive, museum, repository, or only available within a certain country or geographical area).
  • Verifiable sources may have cost restrictions (the purchase of a book, journal article, magazine, newspaper, or the Interlibrary Loans or Document Delivery costs associated with them, access to a museum costs, costs of entry to paid archival services).
  • Verifiable sources may have technical or personal restrictions (written in languages other than English, on websites that require a certain software, available on a type of media that requires the reader to have a certain type of technological appliance to access it)

The costs or difficulties of verifying a source do not impact its reliability, as long as it can be verified by someone in a reasonable time frame.

Where a source is difficult to verify, or in a language other than English, many editors appreciate the courtesy of supplying the relevant paragraph and ensuring it can be read by English language readers. When sources of equal quality are available, the ease of access may be preferred. But if sources of higher quality are difficult to verify, that difficulty alone is not a reason to disregard such sources or replace them with lower-quality ones.

And getting back to your latest deletion nomination spree, this essay relates to the matter at hand: Wikipedia:Deletion is not cleanup Creativity-II (talk) 13:03, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
Primary sources do not support notability. That is well-settled. That issue is distinct from whether the source can be used in an article. Epeefleche (talk) 19:18, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
And you say this, even after all that I quoted above? It sounds like you're adhering too closely to the rules of Wikipedia while not following its spirit. Creativity-II (talk) 04:59, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
You quoted material relating to whether primary sources can be used in an article. Not whether primary sources support notability. They don't. The general notability guideline speaks directly to this. It says: "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article.... "Sources" ... should be secondary sources." Epeefleche (talk) 05:08, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
That's your claim, but you're still ignoring the fact that primary sources can be used for articles when used carefully, and that includes notability. Your attitude toward the use of primary sources makes it sound like they are unreliable or unusable as sources when that's not always the case (the reason I included the quotes above). Creativity-II (talk) 03:33, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
You continue to confuse the two issues. You again refer to whether primary sources can be used in an article. That's not the relevant issue in notability discussions.
The relevant issue is whether primary sources support notability. They don't. The general notability guideline speaks directly to this. It says: "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article.... "Sources" ... should be secondary sources."
I'm not sure how to make this clearer to you. Epeefleche (talk) 04:09, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Heads up[edit]

Hi there. I'm not sure if you're aware of this discussion on school notability. Best,  Philg88 talk 10:10, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

DYK for 85th Street (Manhattan)[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:56, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

John's Korner Bar[edit]

Couldn't you send this to AfD instead of CSD - then I can vote "delete" ;-) Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:55, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

  • Apologies for sparing you the pleasure ... Epeefleche (talk) 20:35, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Intermediate School 318[edit]

Gatoclass (talk) 00:03, 26 June 2014 (UTC)


Actually, you just broke WP:1RR on Tuqu'‎, Halhul and Dura, Hebron.

Please help me ...and self-revert. (I´ll absolutely hate to go through all the work of reporting you ....;P) Cheers, Huldra (talk) 23:29, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Did I? Apologies if I did ... and I will revert if appropriate. But ... I was confused -- I thought if they were different articles, and you seem to be an editor who focuses primarily on that area and knows what you are doing, and certainly would not be reverting me and thereby violating 1RR yourself, that they must be outside 1RR (by being in different articles?).
Or was is that you violated 1RR? On three articles, by reverting my addition of a map to the three articles. In which case ... if I revert, and you then revert (to avoid 1RR), then the articles would be back to precisely where they are now?
Plus -- on the Dura article, though you reverted me by reverting my addition of the map, as you reverted my additions of the map to the other two articles, all I did (so far) was fix the separate point you raised, in a manner that I would think would satisfy your voiced concern, as to the title. (Perhaps you're confused on that, as I see you wrote, which is not the case (at this point): "you adding the map 3 articles".)
Help me here ... tx. --Epeefleche (talk) 23:32, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
You inserted the same stuff twice. In 3 articles. Which I reverted, and will certainly not take out again before 24 hours. You have broken the 1RR rule 3 times!! Now, I can discuss wether the map should be in the article or not, but NOT before you have reverted. Until then I will be occupied with drafting 1RR my report ...on you. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 23:50, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
Help me understand. I will self-revert if appropriate.
What did I insert twice into the Dura article? Not the map. And the title was only deleted because it was over-inclusive, as you pointed out, but I fixed that. Are you asserting that because I fixed your indicated problem with its prior form, it is a violation? That would not make sense -- it totally addresses the issue you raised.
As to the map -- you deleted it three times. On three different articles. Is that a 1RR violation? Or not -- because 1RR only applies to you reverting more than once in the same article?
As to my adding the map twice to any one article, that's not two reverts. The first addition isn't a revert. "A revert means undoing the actions of another editor." When I added a map, I didn't undo the actions of another editor.
Let me know your thinking.
Thanks. Epeefleche (talk) 23:55, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
Oh yes: you adding the map 3 articles: that *is* a violation. If, you like me, only edited each of these 3 articles once during these last 24 hours: then you cannot break the 1RR. Adding, or subtracting the same stuff both counts as reverting. Have you not seen Wikipedia:REVERT? If not, it is about time. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 00:00, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
As you probably know (because when I do edit in that area I often see are active in it), I only edit in this area on occasion; 1 RR doesn't impact the vast majority of the articles I edit. So maybe I need a refresher. As I understand it, you are saying that we only worry about 1RR within any one article. OK ... if that's so, then you certainly haven't violated it here, by deleting the same map from three different articles (once each). In 24 hours. But as I understand it, you are saying that my first addition of the map in any one article counts as a map (we are agreed of course that my second addition of the map, reverting your deletion of it, is a revert). Thing is, I'm reading the rules, and see them as saying just the opposite.
"A revert means undoing the actions of another editor." But when I add an image, I'm not undoing the action of another. Is there an interpretation that says otherwise? If that were the case, and not only reverts, but rather any edit to an article, were counted, it would be a different rule. Perhaps I'm confused -- if you can point me to something that says the first edit is a revert, where I add an image that was never in the article, I could understand that interpretation. But from what I can see, that's not at all a revert, because I am not undoing the action of another when I add an image.
Plus -- on Dura, don't you agree that I didn't add an image? If so, you can't seriously be upset that I addressed the title issue in a manner that addresses your voiced concern? Maybe you might take another look, and let me konw. Epeefleche (talk) 00:23, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
I agree, you did not re-add the image in Dura (my bad), (though I´m not happy with the divisions as they are now: Biblical period, then straight to Tenth if there wasn´t anything in between?) ( BUT: you haven´t broken the 1RR here, AFAIK, you have only broken the 1RR on the two other articles) You are are reading "revert" far, far, too narrowly, look at some of the latest 1RR cases! (say, this) Please understand: Adding material, or removing, both counts towards 1RR. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 01:13, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for clearing up that Dura was a mis-understanding.
So, as I understand it, the issue is now whether when one adds an image for the very first time ... whether that is a revert. Which, if it were, would mean that -- after a subsequent deletion of the image (by you), a revert of your deletion by me would be a "2nd" revert.
My understanding is that the first act -- the addition of the image, for the first time, into the article, is not a revert. Admittedly, I've not devoted as high a percentage of my time on wp to editing in the 1RR area as it appears you have. But reading the policy, I don't see it saying what you assert.
And the example you gave is different -- it involves two clear changes to other editors' edits by undoing their edits. The addition of the image in the first place, in contrast, was not an undo of an edit.
But if I'm told that you are right and I am wrong, I will happily self-revert on those 2 articles. Let's see what input we get on the policy talk page here. One sysop has opined already; and kudos to him, btw ... he and I have had some sharp disagreements in the past, but he did not let that impact his honest view. Epeefleche (talk) 01:36, 4 July 2014 (UTC)


Hi. I saw the summary you posted. I'm sure you were well intentioned, but, for what it's worth, when I'm closing AfDs, I usually find those sorts of summaries annoying. There's an implication that whoever closes the AfD is unaware of these facts, and needs to have them pointed out, lest they go unnoticed. Have faith that, whoever comes along to close this, will read the whole thing and be able to count on their fingers and toes how many are in column K and how many are in column D. -- RoySmith (talk) 01:27, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi. I understand. I don't as a matter of course leave such a summary. But as I thought the summary that directly preceded it was misleading, and didn't capture the flavor of wp:consensus, I thought it appropriate to tender my view as well -- which differed. I didn't differ w/regard to fingers and toes, just w/regard to what constitutes no-consensus, and the importance of ascertaining the quality of the arguments given on the various sides of an issue, as viewed through the lens of Wikipedia policy ... which the nearly-closing-summary-giver had not mentioned as impacting his thought process. But I do understand your thoughts. --Epeefleche (talk) 03:21, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

School AFDs[edit]

Hi Epeefleche,
Seeing as each and every School AFD has been closed as Redirect, Have you ever thought about just redirecting them yourself?,
I don't have any issues with you nominating them its just I thought it may be quicker redirecting yourself that's all :)
Regards, –Davey2010(talk) 22:08, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi Davey. I have. My problem is two-fold. One, some editors -- even at the recent AfDs -- disagree. Second, from time to time the !vote ends up in the school being kept. Given that, I'm not so Bold as to redirect on my own -- without any other editors looking at the redirect proposal (as happens at speedy and at PROD). I understand that others are so Bold -- and I don't disagree with them having a different view. But I can see, under the circumstances -- and especially since the school AfDs are never closed as a SNOW as best I can recall -- a Keep !voter arguing that such a redirect is a stealth move, and therefore not as appropriate as a speedy or PROD (which go nowhere) or AfD. All that said, if another editor wishes to redirect, or to close AfDs as Snows, that's not something I have an issue with. Best. --Epeefleche (talk) 22:13, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
You don't have to be bold if you don't want to. I have no problem with your AfD nominations. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 22:28, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
To be honest I suppose not being bold on something like these are good as no doubt you'd get one tool who would simply revert!,
Anyway was just a suggestion :)
Happy Editing,
Regards, –Davey2010(talk) 22:29, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks to both of you. Frankly -- I wish there were a more streamlined way. For example, making Speedy or Prod available ... the closing sysop can always then redirect. That would allow for at least one other editor seeing the change. Another improvement would be if people were to SNOW close AfDs in the schools area, that are clear redirects. Either or both of those would be an improvement. Or, a bolder editor could redirect primary schools and elementary schools that don't appear to warrant an article. Best. Epeefleche (talk) 22:34, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Bare url source and no page number on book source- added to a good article[edit]

Hi Epeefleche. I think you added this bare URL source to a Good article (aphthous stomatitis): [3]. Do you feel like filling it out properly, it being a GA and all...

Also this book I cannot see any preview of online:


Did you see any preview? It looks like the source was found with a google book search of "rembrandt" toothpaste "canker sores"

If you know the page number, that would also be v helpful since the article is moving to FA soon. Many thanks, (talk) 23:39, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi -- are you editing under more than one identity? Thanks. I will try to look for the info you asked about in the next few days. Best. Epeefleche (talk) 23:48, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
As a dynamic IP these days. Many thanks for offer to look up requested information. (talk) 00:03, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
Aside from an IP number, have you also edited under a name? Tx. Epeefleche (talk) 00:04, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
I now only edit as a "dynamic" IP because it focuses me on content building and insulates me from a lot of the nonsense on WP. Not true dynamic ofc as no proxy, but the IP address is re-assigned every few hours so I don't usually have to read talk page messages unless I happen to check back again.
If you can't find the page number of that people's pharmacy book, it could be safely dropped from the article since the newspaper source (which I can read online) will support all the content of that section. But at the FA reviewers are bound to ask for page number of a book source. (talk) 08:17, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
As to the preview, the page is 122. Epeefleche (talk) 20:25, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
Aside from an IP number, have you also edited under a name? Epeefleche (talk) 22:54, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

As of[edit]

Interesting to chat to you about English usage. In case you haven't already done so, can you be mindful of the closer's comment here? You took that to AN/I awfully quickly. Next time, please consider a longer discussion first. There's enough drama on the project already without whipping up more. Thanks a lot. --John (talk) 10:34, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your thoughts. I considered the circumstances before bringing it to AN/I. The rate of changes being made by the editor. The fact that I had attempted discussion. The fact that despite discussion, and examples, and my request that he desists, the dozens-of-changes-per-day were continuing unabated. The fact that I don't have the tools to address the mass-reverts needed. And, considering that, I thought AN/I appropriate, as I needed its input. The closer's comments were accurate as of the time of the closing -- because, as you know, the editor changed his behavior ... but only after the AN/I was filed. This is one time that an AN/I worked, and prevented further needless drama -- and the thoughtful discussion was all drama-free, and contrary to your characterization no drama was "whipped up" ... we all know what that sort of event looks like, and this wasn't it. --Epeefleche (talk) 14:51, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
Yes, all fair comments. Where do you think the content discussion about the matter could best be concluded? --John (talk) 15:02, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
No doubt there may be more than one place. But the locus of the current discussion seems most appropriate at the moment. The AN/I pointed to the editor's talk page, allowing the discussion to take place there (as it did), so a summation of the consensus view of the discussion would I would think naturally take place there. Best. Epeefleche (talk) 15:04, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Fleadh Nua[edit]

Can you please take this to WP:AfD instead? Sorry to make more work for you, but this may be controversial. Bearian (talk) 17:14, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

I'll first trim some uncited/challenged cruft, and tag it for notability. Let's see if someone comes along to evidence notability. If not, I'll consider PROD or AfD. Tx.--Epeefleche (talk) 17:19, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

International Islamic Relief Organization[edit]

Please keep International Islamic Relief Organization on your watch list. It was removed from Category:Organizations designated as terrorist by the United States government along with other deletions two months ago without anybody noticing. I have reverted the edits by the anonymous user. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 04:06, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Excelsior Recordings[edit]

Hi, I like to draw your attention to the article Excelsior Recordings where I am in conflict with another editor. Root of the conflict is the adding of a significant list on artists without own article. Now the other guy is falsely templating me for edit warring, it seems time to call in some back up. Knowing that you do a lot of work on lists and on music, you seem a useful guy to approach. I hope you want to shed your light on the matter. The Banner talk 11:28, 9 July 2014 (UTC)