User talk:KNM/Archive7

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Hello KNM,

We are attempting to link to games files in our databases, IN EXACTLY the same manner as, (For Example) which is a commercial site with a product for sale.

Each time we list the External Link for the asssociated play, they are removed and once we were told we were spamming.

If we are providing a resource, in exactly the same manner as the other sites, then why does this rule not apply to them as well?

Confused. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PlanetChess (talkcontribs) 01:43, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Oops!, sorry for the mistake in trying to reach you via, editing your page, we thought that this was how to message you.

PC —Preceding unsigned comment added by PlanetChess (talkcontribs) 01:44, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi KNM[edit]

Sorry for uploading the second lake image in Bangalore article. you are right... doesn't make sense to add another image...! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aandu (talkcontribs) 13:25, 20 December 2007 (UTC)


May I know why you have revereted my undo, Is it irrelevant to specify that Kannada is 3rd oldest Indian language after Sanskrit and Tamil. Regards... —Preceding unsigned comment added by IndiWorld (talkcontribs) 12:29, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Happy Rajyotsava[edit]

Congrats to you also!!. Finally after a gap of more than one year we have a main page article.Dineshkannambadi 00:10, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Exciting. Happy Rajyotsava to you too. Gnanapiti 00:20, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
ರಾಜ್ಯೋತ್ಸವದ ಶುಭಾಷಯಗಳು. It will be even sweeter this time with the appearance of Karnataka on the front page -- ¿Amar៛Talk to me/My edits 01:02, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
ರಾಜ್ಯೋತ್ಸವದ ಶುಭಾಷಯಗಳು. Exciting to see Karnataka on Main page. -- Naveen (talk) 02:15, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

There are two images I took at Belur that somehow ended up in wiki commmons, though I did not put it there. How shall we resolve this.? Image:Belur sthambha-buttalika.jpg‎; Image:Belur madanika.jpg‎; Dineshkannambadi 12:04, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Images on commons[edit]

I may be wrong, but I thought that I saw somewhere that the Commons had different rules about images, and that sometimes they deleted images without notifying the uploader on Wikipedia. Then the image would no longer be available for Wikipeidia. Is that not a danger? Thanks. --Mattisse 14:21, 2 November 2007 (UTC)


I see that snakebot has been adding Tamil and Telugu bot names at the bottom of the articles for Vijayanagara kings. What exactly does the bot do when it adds a vernacular stuff like that. Does it make that article available for that language wiki? If so, why dont I see a Kannada equivalent being done? How can it be done?Dineshkannambadi 18:33, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

That bot adds interwiki links. That is, adding links to the same article in different language wikipedias.
If the article exists in Kannada wikipedia, then its interwiki link should get added by this bot. - KNM Talk 18:50, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
For example, see this edit. It has added Wikipedia article links from Kannada and Telugu language wikipedias, for the article Madikeri. Thanks - KNM Talk 19:26, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I wonder who is moving these images to common. one more :Image:Buchesvara Korvangla.jpg.Dineshkannambadi 18:02, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

So its just a link to the existing English language article, not a translated article. Right? Which means a Telugu article could have an entirely different content compared to the English language article it is linked to. BTW, i notied KN has <5000 article, Telugu has 35,000.Dineshkannambadi 19:54, 2 November 2007 (UTC)


Thanks, KNM! :) Nishkid64 (talk) 20:10, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

K of M[edit]

ThanksDineshkannambadi 15:06, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I see it was promoted, during the very time that I was composing my comments! DK will surely read it where it is, and could act on it if he wishes. It is a good article in general. Regards, ImpuMozhi 21:20, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


Hey, I think you have a very bad impression of me after you saw me using my sister's PC, and even reporting this to an administrator. This led to my block, but I was shortly unblocked. What I wanted to say, is that it doesn't necessarily mean that I'm a bad editor. Plus, I know the article of Preity Zinta makes you very angry, especially when I'm a major contributor to it. If you want to tell me something, no need to use the edit summary for that. I'm open to criticism, and if you see me being a bit rude, please let me know and tell me that. Best regards, ShahidTalk2me 18:11, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Responded in your talk page. - KNM Talk 18:36, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the help anyway. The article was not promoted, but I think it was a learning experience, wasn't it? ShahidTalk2me 18:17, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
It certainly was. Thanks, - KNM Talk 18:36, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I very much doubt that the article is way off a feature if many experienced editors supported it. We had clear supports from several adminsitrators and respected users who are very experienced in FA's and wikipedia -now if the article was way off why would they have supported it? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "Talk"? 19:10, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi there! Blofeld. Hope you remember we both worked on several DYKs in the past. :)
Regarding Zinta, yes the article is far away from FA quality, and that is my opinion, and you are welcome to differ from it, and so are several other editors. Also, I have given ample review comments which clearly say, what resulted in me coming to this opinion. Cheers, - KNM Talk 19:21, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Hello. I removed only Blofeld's comment which was cleared out and you can ask him, he will say that there is no problem. And, I removed the unreliable sites which were no longer in the article. Thanks, ShahidTalk2me 01:54, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. Just a personal point, that's so sad that I'm now considered to be an editor with a bad history, who needs guidance at everything. Just because I was blocked after this another user hadn't discussed things on talk pages (like he does now), which led to my block of a 3RR rule, pulled by another one. My truly best regards, ShahidTalk2me 02:06, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
I really don't know why this sentence is bad. She says that she learnt. So what's the problem? Nobody says that she is today. We write "as a child" - Ok - I'm going now. Tomorrow I'll think of a better way to add it. Regards, ShahidTalk2me 02:24, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Angelina Jolie has a quote of her about her self-cut. Why Zinta can't have quote which indicates that she was popular at school and liked her life at school? Sorry, disagree. ShahidTalk2me 02:27, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for editing the page friend. Yet, I must have disagreed with some removals. I've added them back things like "groomed in a...", "infrequent visits" (removed this actualt phrase "infrequent visits" - yes, I realised it's a POV), and literature; but rewrote keeping major neutrality. Please don't revert unless you disagree and want to discuss it. And please don't get angry, because we are on good terms now, and I'm considering you a very good editor (I know my opinion is not so important, but nevertheless...). I just want it to be as much informative as possible, like in Jolie's page. Your help is really much appreciated. Best regards, ShahidTalk2me 02:47, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
I didn't intend to offend you, but I think it's more informative now than it was after your edits, because many things were removed. I didn't revert. My best regards, ShahidTalk2me 08:51, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
I think your act was not right dear KNM. When it was obvious that many users who were objecting its FAC promotion and had some problems with me, would suggest to delist it. ShahidTalk2me 10:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Tell me please, what problem do you have with self claims? Everything of her background life is actually told by her. Jolie can have self claims and Zinta cannot? You also reverted my edits. Please reply. ShahidTalk2me 16:13, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Hey, no problem (I replied on my talk). - non-RS? ShahidTalk2me 18:22, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


I have no interest in this image at all, but please stop labeling it as a speedy deletion candidate when it is not. Please remove the watermarking or use WP:IFD to delete it instead of wasting administrator time by insisting on the wrong process. Thank you, Kusma (talk) 19:58, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

same name![edit]

Thank you for your welcome. We share the first initial of our name! KVSTamilNadu 21:57, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


Hello KNM!

To avoid one more tiff with you and another opportunity of you going to an administrator to say that I own the page, please tell me, what's wrong with the distinct actresses fact when it's very well referenced? And why saying that Dil Chahta Hai is a romance which depicts... etc a POV again? Have you seen Jolie? Gia paragraph? The film depicts a world of sex, drugs and drama. So please explain the point. Please reply. Thanks, ShahidTalk2me 17:02, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok. We are all in the article talk page. --Dwaipayan (talk) 17:22, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
KNM, please stop you. I don't own the article, I removed the surprise stuff. Here is the quote - "Credited with bringing a change in the image of Hindi film heroine, the dimpled lady from Himachal is known for her steadfast approach and honesty." What do you say? I don't know if you are Indian or not but please tell me how you interpret this quote from the ref. ShahidTalk2me 19:30, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Please see this. Thank you, - KNM Talk 19:33, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
You poke fun at me now. Thank you for that. ShahidTalk2me 19:34, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

What do you want from me guys? Could you please stop it? You have also reverted my edits. Not a whole revert, but you have also violated th 3RR rule, if I did. And I can provide diffs. ShahidTalk2me 19:55, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Re: Staying away[edit]

Hi! Both of us have not interacted with Shahid prior to this Zinta article's FAC. However, we (you and me) know each other to some extent. And from this acquaintance, I am forced to tell you, do not stay away. The article is shaping up well, and should not be difficult for an FAC in 1 week or so, provided editors like you continue copyediting and improving. I have gone through majority of the citations, and maximum ~7-10 needs replacement (for the time being, I am not counting boxofficeindia website as debatable). The language is also improving. Let's give it a try :)--Dwaipayan (talk) 23:26, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of List of songs sung by Rajkumar for others[edit]

Nuvola apps important.svg

Thank you for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and the page that you created has been or soon will be deleted. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the article (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. tennisman 02:07, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Viswanathan Anand[edit]

Thanks for fixing my garbled edit. Quale 22:25, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

Love heart.jpg


What's your problem against me? Could you please explain it? ShahidTalk2me 04:59, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I do not have any problem against you. Thanks - KNM Talk 05:05, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Forget it. I don't care. Everything is clear to me in any case. Cheers! ShahidTalk2me 05:09, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Alright. Thanks - KNM Talk 05:10, 13 November 2007 (UTC)


Please sign your comment on Talk IndiaDineshkannambadi 17:27, 13 November 2007 (UTC)


Yup, I think the article is ripe for a formal PR. Thanks -- ¿Amar៛Talk to me/My edits 16:54, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Review request[edit]

Hi. Could you take a look at Satellite Instructional Television Experiment and make suggestions for improvement at the talk page. I plan to take it to FAC asap. Thanks. And congrats on your many DYKs. - Aksi_great (talk) 18:09, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for the prompt review. I will try and expand the technical section. The article will probably end up being less than 30k. Don't know if article size is a criteria for FA. Will check that out. Images are going to be a problem. The only things that can be done is to add more maps if possible as there is almost nothing on the web about the experiment. - Aksi_great (talk) 18:43, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Could you take another look now? I have expanded the article a bit (20k now, Indian Standard Time is 17k). The Technical details section has been expanded. I have added a new section on international collaboration. My feeling now is that the article is as comprehensive as it can get. I have also merger the End of SITE section with the Impact section. And no more images can be found, we'll have to do with the 3 that are there on the page. - Aksi_great (talk) 11:06, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


KNM, How do I enter info on my user page about the images I have contributed to WIKI. For instance for templates , we write {{xxxyyyzzz}}. How do I do that and create a list of all the images so people can just pick it off my user page.Dineshkannambadi 18:32, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

All the 300+ images? Or will it be a new click into a page kind of a thing like you guys have for DYK's, etc? Fortunately, I have all my image names stored in a text file to cut and paste from.Dineshkannambadi 19:15, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Re to quick question[edit]

No we do not have the mention of catalogs (I read the article a while ago, as far as I remember there is no such mention). Ok, am removing catalog.--Dwaipayan (talk) 16:17, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Re: PR[edit]

Indeed, after seeing that edit, I told Shahid on his talk page to refrain from such behaviour. It is sometimes very difficult to make people understand that this personal stuffs ultimately leads to damage for the article. I am trying my best. Thanks for not furthering it there. And BTW, Mysore seems on its way to FAC, great!--Dwaipayan (talk) 17:37, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Re: PR[edit]

I thought that I would go for a PR too initially. But then I thought that this being a short article, I could handle comments during FAC itself. I will go through the article once again with fresh eyes and remove the small mistakes like spellings and units etc. - Aksi_great (talk) 18:26, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Some images[edit]

I have uploaded some of the images from North karnataka, see if you can use them in wikipedia. These were taken during my recent trip to North karnataka.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Mankalmadhu (talkcontribs)[edit]

Wow that's great that you've created an article for that, but one user removes content. He's removed "popular" (fine for me), but he'd also removed it: "The website provides news related to Indian film industry, particularly Bollywood, film reviews and box office reports."

This doesn't need a ref even. ShahidTalk2me 18:40, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

OK, fine. Thanks - KNM Talk 18:46, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
I meant to send it to Dwaipayanc. Came to you by mistake (if you didn't get it). So stop removing it. Thanks, ShahidTalk2me 18:48, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Srinath 1.jpg[edit]

Thanks for uploading Image:Srinath 1.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Wikipedia:Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot (talk) 20:03, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Srinath 2.jpg[edit]

Thanks for uploading Image:Srinath 2.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Wikipedia:Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot (talk) 20:03, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Western Chalukya Architecture[edit]

Hi KNM. I have received a comment regarding the usage of upper case "A" instead of lower case, as in "architecture" in the FAC discussion. Do you know how to move an article, its discussion page and its FAC nomination to the new "lower cased" name.thanks.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 15:55, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Hoysala architecture[edit]

Yes, its a surprise.Dineshkannambadi 01:58, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Udaya.gif[edit]

Thanks for uploading Image:Udaya.gif. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Wikipedia:Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 20:18, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Bot. It has been addressed now. - KNM Talk 22:08, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Mysore is FA[edit]

Thanks for your support in its FAC -- ¿Amar៛Talk to me/My edits 04:24, 18 December 2007 (UTC)


hi, i didn't contribute anything i just changed ramya to divya spandana.

is that wrong?

but her real name is Divya Spandana —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chandanmm (talkcontribs) 00:10, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Happy New Year[edit]

To you.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 23:53, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Happy New Year[edit]

Strawberry milkshake.jpg

Dear KNM, I hope you had a wonderful New Year's Day, and that 2008 brings further success, health and happiness! ~ Blnguyen (bananabucket) 06:21, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Sydney Fireworks 2005.jpg

picture removal from Karnataka[edit]


I again removed the picture on demographics in karnataka after you had undone it once. Please look at the figure, the numbers are horribly wrong, they are not in agreement with the census figures and the numbers in the paragraph alongside. The % of Christians in Karnataka is 1.91%, but the figure there contributed by indiandefence is showing a glaring error with a number of 11%.

So please dont add that diagram until it is rectified to be in agreement with census, wikipedia should not be circulating bogus data around.

Murali —Preceding unsigned comment added by Murali83 (talkcontribs) 07:55, 8 January 2008 (UTC)


I wish you had discussed before you reverted a good faith edit - edit warring is very much frowned upon. Please add to the discussion at WT:CRIC. --Dweller (talk) 16:09, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and btw, almost all of the edits made to Bollyline before the merge were by cricket WikiProject regulars. --Dweller (talk) 16:12, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, looks like you have misunderstood. I have no intention of edit warring here. I can self-revert my edit, and I will. The point I was making being, for any article, before merging we need to use appropriate template, and should provide enough time for the other editors to discuss. Also, the ideal place for the discussion is article talk page, whose link would automatically appear through merger template. I hope this clarifies, and I am going to self-revert. Thanks - KNM Talk 16:15, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Lovely. Incidentally, about 5,600 of the 5,700 bytes was written by me or User:The Rambling Man. Please do post at WT:CRIC --Dweller (talk) 16:18, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Million plus cities[edit]

I had developed the Template:Million-plus cities in India based on data of Census Commission of India on the web. Now Census Commission has removed that data. Many editors are editing the template without any reference data, and I am rather helpless in preventing it. Therefore, I felt that without proper reference the template is somewaht redundant. As such I removed some of the templates. If some one wants to maintain it, I don't have any objection. - P.K.Niyogi (talk) 03:37, 12 January 2008 (UTC)


Hi KNM, yes, thanks..I was keeping that at the back of my mind while I responded. Incidently, if you have the time, please share your opinion on the ongoing discussion on the talk page. My personal view was that there were far too many unnecessary images that affected the article both from a formatting and relevence standpoint. Thanks AreJay (talk) 01:05, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Western Ganga[edit]

Hi. I moved some images around and aligned them. While the format looks good to me, can you just take a look if its an issue with your browsers? I mean w.r.t to blank spaces.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 02:11, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Western Chalukya arch: KNM, is there a policy regarding highlighting text in sub-topics. Like in "Temple complexes" section, '"Basic Layout" subsection, Giano preferred to highlight a few important terms. Another user has questioned this.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 12:50, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Kesava/Chennakesava Temples[edit]

KNM, seems like there are two articles for the Chennakesava temple in Somanathapura. The detailed article I wrote called Chennakesava Temple at Somanathapura and another small article called Keshava temple, which I think needs to be merged or deleted. How do I do this?Dineshkannambadi (talk) 14:49, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Sure, I will take a look. - KNM Talk 20:45, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Bangalore talk page[edit]

Namaskara KNM, I just wanted to comment on your talk page first since it took me a good 10 minutes to even comprehend what had happened. I most certainly applaud your honorable intentions in trying to diffuse a(nother) potential firestorm as a result of the post; however, we shouldn't remove material posted by another user (however noble the intent behind the removal); in fact, typically, only the editor making the post may withdraw comments by using the <s></s> tag and not hard-deleting the post en toto. I'll go ahead and re-insert the editor in-question's post on the Talk page; however, I will not respond to it (as you've done that already) except to state that you have responded to the editor. Thanks for all your hard work...I hope you understand the spirit of my comments...tappu tilakobedi :) AreJay (talk) 23:20, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

That is fine. - KNM Talk 20:43, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Javagal Srinath[edit]

Is this website a reliable source? --Jpeeling (talk) 18:54, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Image rotation[edit]

Hi and thanks for the link. I was aware that some such tool was being used on the India page, but I hadn't seen the code until you pointed me in that direction. I took a look at the code and it's exactly what I had in mind...using a random number to randomize which images are used. In fact, since we already have a basic template to work with from the India page, I can fairly quickly put something together for Bangalore as well. Let us work to shortlist some images in the discussion page and then we can randomize 2-3 images based on consensus. Thanks AreJay (talk) 23:03, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Nikkul's 3RR[edit]

Hi, sorry didn't see this message of yours earlier. Nikkul has actually made 4 rvs today, at 4:03am, 4:06am, 13:13 and at 14:22. Per WP:3RR definition, "A revert, in this context, means undoing, in whole or in part, the actions of another editor or of other editors..[a]n editor does not have to perform the same revert on a page more than three times to breach this rule". I didn't want to report him because I'm lucky enough to find some time these days to dedicate time to WP and I would rather not use that time to fight with other editors and report people for violations. BTW, I'm working on the random image generator as I write this, since Dinesh also expressed an interest in such a utility. AreJay (talk) 23:31, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the info...are you in Bangalore?? Shouldn't you be asleep by now? :P AreJay (talk) 23:49, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
No and No. :) - KNM Talk 00:09, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Wiki Raja[edit]

Could you explain what the problem is with the Tamil civilization WikiProject tag? I'm sorry, but I don't remember the exact circumstances of the matter. Thanks in advance for the explanation. Nishkid64 (talk) 03:11, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Just to let you know, I blocked him for 2 weeks. Nishkid64 (talk) 01:43, 25 January 2008 (UTC)


Thanks for the wish. Yes, it was my birthday! --Dwaipayan (talk) 04:42, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Sir Edmund Hillary[edit]

I mentioned him because Mountaineering is also considered a sport. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DesiStrider (talkcontribs) 20:06, 25 January 2008 (UTC)


Thanks for your support on 2007 Cricket World Cup against editors who reverted me. I am to blame for the revert as I didn't bother adding a reference, I have now added one and believe my paragraph should stay as for a lot of fans the India v Pakistan match was going to be one of the highlights of the tournament and people had pre-booked tickets only for both teams to be eliminated and the match to be replaced by Bangladesh v Ireland... Darrowen (talk) 00:08, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Poverty of India Image[edit]

Beggar in Bodhgaya

There is a discussion going on regarding whether or not the following image should be a part of the Poverty in India page. Most Poverty in *Country* pages do not have any images, at most 1. User:Otolemur crassicaudatus has brought many images showing extreme poverty in India and has tried to mislead people into thinking this is the way a majority of poor Indians live. There is a vote in which your input would be appreciated. You can find this discussion here

I feel that the the Bodhgaya Beggar image does not represent poverty in India correctly because:

  • The beggar in Bodhgaya image does not accurately depict poor people in India because they do not look like this. This man is an exception. To say that this man represents all poor people in India is very wrong. A small minority of Indias poor are disabled. Most living under the poverty line work long hours fishing, farming or as construction workers. This picture shows a man whose legs have been broken. Unless a majority of India's or even a fraction of the poor have legs like this, the image is irrelevant and undue to the poverty in india page.
  • Poverty and Disability are not connected in any way. There are thousands of super rich people who are disabled.
  • There are 11 country articles on poverty
  • This user is being uncivil and unyielding.
  • This image is being used by User:Otolemur crassicaudatus to display his dislike of India and to mislead people into thinking that this is the plight of millions of poor Indians. This user has often added images showing extreme poverty to many India relating articles.[1] Even though this user knows that poverty is present in every country and that extreme poverty is not a fair representation of the Indian economy, this user has previously tried to add an image of children washing their clothes in a mud puddle to the economy section of the India page. This user has added this image to the poverty section of the Economy of India page, when a graph showing poverty would make more sense.
  • WP:Undue says:
We should not attempt to represent a dispute as if a view held by a small minority deserved as much attention as a majority view. Views that are held by a tiny minority should not be represented except in articles devoted to those views. To give undue weight to a significant-minority view, or to include a tiny-minority view, might be misleading as to the shape of the dispute.

This can be applied to this because a very tiny fraction of poor people in India are disabled. Most work very hard trying to make a living for themselves. This image is misleading. Nikkul (talk) 02:51, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

KNM, in your talk page this user has made wild accusations on me. I will request you please read the relevant sections on Talk:Poverty in India to give you an inside in this user and to understand who is incivil. You please read the texts like these [2], [3], [4]. The Bodggaya beggar image is more appropriate than others because:

  • You may know, many beggars live a condition like this, many of them have various disabilities.

There is no "typical" definition of poverty, or beggar. There are abled beggar, disabled beggar. The purpose of the article is depicting poverty. The other beggar images which this user want to place deleting the Bodhgaya beggar image are not good quality, one is B&W, and the other depicting a beggar girl in Ladakh. But my objection here is that Ladakh is quite different from rest of the country because of its geographics. Majority Indians live in plain. And this Bodhgaya beggar image is showing poverty at its most extreme level. It is not right to conceal the situation of poor men like this, it is the truth, the reality. This image touches the heart of the reader, which is a real situation. Yes not all beggars are disabled, but is this an argument? On the other hand it also can be said that not all beggars are abled. Our job here is not to understand who is abled, or who is not. But to find a good image which is representative of many.

  • This user is repeatating his arguments and has taken a densive position by his ad hominem attack on me. Any one do not agree with him, here I am trying to depict poverty, and he is labelling me as Indophobic. There are other editors who honoured me for my contributions. The only reason given against this image that "since all beggars have not messed up legs, this image is undue". But it is an anti-individualistic argument. So what if not all beggars do not have messed up legs? The fact is that such secenes is a reality and it would not be right to conceal it. Such scenes exists, it is the truth. If it is reality, if such scenes exits, then an article depicting poverty i.e. "the condition of lacking full economic access to fundamental human needs such as food, shelter and safe drinking water", only those images should remain which clearly illustrate this fact.
  • This user has informed many partisan editors, like User:Bakasuprman about the image. This user also informed this to banned Hkelkar socks. I will also request you check this user's contributions. Please remember the article is not about India, but the article is about poverty. This article is not depicting India, depicting poverty in India. So such image is not deriding India, it is illustrating the poverty in India. This image, I think, will be very appropriate. I have told you why I am supporting the includsion of this image. Regards. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 06:33, 30 January 2008 (UTC)


Greetings from N.Srinivasan (username srirangam99)


Many thanks for your feedback on my efforts to rectify errors and inaccurate bits of information on some of the pages devoted to Chalukya Kings. At the outset, I would like to make it clear that I have no brief or prejudice either towards or against the Chalukyas or Cholas or any other empire or kingdom. While your feedback on how to edit or invite historians or other participants for discussion was commendable, there were a couple of things that I couldn't understand and with frequent visits to the site I hope to learn more.

I had written comments on two chapters (for the present) devoted to Chalukya Kings, mainly Tailapa-II and his son and successor Satyashraya. Perhaps my method was wrong and so those comments got deleted, but being a new member (though it isn't my right) at least I could have been guided on which section to approach for initiating a debate or discussion etc. for pointing out inaccuracies and contribute to either correction of that page or be corrected myself.

Regarding the page on Tailapa-II, let me start this way. There are two pages, one on Tailapa-II and the other on his contemporary Chola King, Raja Raja Chola I.

In the page on Raja Raja I the following is attributed to him (let us remember that Raja Raja I took over as king or got coronated in the year 985 AD):

The southern kingdoms of Pandyas, Cheras and the Sinhalas were often allied against the Cholas.[5] It was the case when Rajaraja came to the throne. Rajaraja's initial campaigns were against the combined Pandya and Chera armies. There is no evidence of any military campaign undertaken by Rajaraja until the eighth year of his reign. During this period he was engaged in organising and augumenting his army and in preparing for military expeditions.

In contrast, the page on Tailapa-II states the following, inaccurately in my view: In 992. Raja Raja Chola was vanquished and the Chalukya monarch secured one hundred and fifty elephants

Here there is no question of either of these two kings having fought each other and hence, neither of this won over or got defeated by the other king. Further evidence corresponds as under (from wikipedia's own pages, which may also not be shorn of evidence)..

[edit] Kandalur Salai The very first military achievement of Rajaraja’s reign was the campaign in the Kerala country c 994 C.E.. Rajaraja’s early inscriptions use the descriptive ‘Kandalur salai kalamarutta’ (காந்தளுர் சாலைக் களமறுத்த). In this campaign Rajaraja is said to have destroyed a fleet in the port of Kandalur, which appears to have been situated in the dominions of the Chera King Bhaskara Ravi Varman Thiruvadi (c. 978 – 1036 C.E.).[8][9] Inscriptions found around Thanjavur show that frequent references are made to the conquest of the Chera king and the Pandyas in Malai-nadu (the west coast of South India). Kandalur-Salai, which later inscriptions claim to have belonged to the Chera king, was probably held by the Pandyas when it was conquered by Rajaraja.[10] Some years' fighting apparently was necessary before the conquest could be completed and the conquered country could be sufficiently settled for its administration could be properly organised.

Sir, through the above example, I further want to state (I leave it to you to decide whether it is a 'proof' or not by verifying yourself from the relevant wikipedia pages) that not just prior to 993 (which was the 8th year of Raja Raja I's reign - considering that for a period of 8 years from the day of his accession, Raja Raja I did not fight any war, which means he neither defeated or get defeated by anyone in war. Not just this Sir, after 993 i.e. during the years 994-997 he was busy in the conquest of three kingdoms as per the Kandalur inscriptions, i.e. the Chera, Pandya and Sri Lanka and not just that he spent 'Some Years' (as per the above para) before the said conquests could be completed and the conquered countries sufficiently brought under Chola control.

The above para again proves that even during the period 993-998 there was no occasion for Tailapa-II to fight Raja Raja I. In any case as Tailapa-II page would show, Tailapa-II was succeeded by his son Satyashraya in the year 997.

Now let us see what inscriptions favouring Tailapa-II himself have to speak off by way of his relations or adversarial attitude towards the Cholas. These inscriptions come from District Chitradurga, Karnataka and I request you to pls. see the following link:

In these pages lines are devoted to Kings of various dynasties that ruled and controlled what is now known as Chitradurga in modern Karnataka. The specific inscription with regard to Tailapa-II and his animosity to the Cholas is as under:


To return to the Chalukyas, Taila or Tailapa, who not only regained all the territories of his forefathers but even extended them in all directions, must have been an active and ambitious ruler and has been aptly described in the inscriptions as full of desire to fight with the Chola king and as being a destroying fire to the Cholas. It may be remarked at the very outset that if the early Chalukyas had been largely occupied in the South in wars against the Pallavas, the later Chalukyas had to engage them­selves in that quarter in struggles with the Cholas.

Sir, the above lines speak of his keenness to fight the Chola kings and of being a destroying fire to the Cholas. This and the subsequent inscriptions do not speak of his engagement in any war with the Cholas, especially of a victory he might have won against the Cholas, who during the periods 950-1070 were the most powerful empire in South India.(Even the proud claim in the Vikramaditya VI page that after the loss of Vengi, the Cholas were never able to emerge as a powerful force in South India is absolutely false, because not just Kulothunga I, but his successors like Kulothunga II and even Kulothunga-III (1176-1218) controlled both Vengi and Kalinga. In fact Kulothunga-III built the famous Kampahareswarar Temple at Thirubhuvanam to commemorate his victorious expedition to Kalinga, but that is something I will take up later, Sir - because the first priority correction of error in the article currently under discussion) Especially Tailapa-II would have proudly announced his 'vanquishing' Raja Raja I in most parts of the Kingdom and filled this news with various inscriptions? Do we have such proofs? No, Sir because we have in Chitradurga, one inscription in the year 992 itself which speaks as under:

We have one inscription in this district, from Vasana in Davangere taluk, dated 992, referring to the reign of Taila II (973-997) under his title Ahavamalla. At that time, Kadambalige was under one Jatarasa, a Sinda chief.

At least in the above inscription with all fanfare the news of Tailapa-II as Ahavamalla defeating Raja Raja I Chola could or should have occured but it doesn't. In addition, Sir, I have enclosed excerpts from the wikipedia page on Raja Raja I which says that he spent a few years from 994 onwards winning over not one but three provinces i.e. Sri Lanka, Chera and Pandya Kingdoms. With Raja Raja I concentrating on provinces to the South of the Chola Kingdom and with Tailapa-II consolidating in North Karnataka in the Manyakheta/Malkhed region fighting with the Paramaras and Gujarat and South Maharashtra Kingdoms, there was absolutely no occasion for Tailapa-II to fight a war with Raja Raja I, let alone either defeating or losing to him.

This much is my contention based on which, I humbly request that the inaccurate lines attributing a victory of Tailapa-II over Raja Raja I in 992 be deleted. And not just the above, Sir, there is more proof in support of my contentions.

As further proof on whether or not Tailapa-II (Chalukya Kingdom - Later Chalukyas) went to war with Raja Raja Chola I in AD 992, I request you to visit this link also:

In fact the excerpts relevant to my current discussion with you are also produced herein for an impartial view and consequent review, thirty party examination and further discussion with fellow historians for taking a final view as to whether or not the lines mentioning (falsely in my view, Sir) a victory for Tailapa-II over Raja Raja Chola I in 992 should be deleted. The relevant extracts are placed below (which you can yourself see by visiting the above site):

No. 75.

(A. R. No. 81 of 1904.)


This is dated Saka 909, Sarvajit, Vaisakha, su. 3, Adityavara corresponding to A.D. 987 April 3, Sunday, the tithi being current for about 4 hours on the next day. It refers itself to the reign of the Chalukya king Ahavamalladeva and states that while his Mahasamanta Aytavarma was ruling Kisukalu (du) seventy and Kogali five-hundred, the fifty (Mahajanas) of Balguli made a gift of a garden for the service of the god Adityadeva consecrated by Duggimayya.

No. 76.

(A. R. No.101 of 1904.)


This is dated Saka 913, Khara, Magha, su. 5, Mangalvara, corresponding to A.D. 991 January 12 Tuesday and states that, at the five-hundred, the Chalukya king Ahavamalladeva confirmed the toll contribution on betle leaves formrly fixed by the illustrious Kannaradeva (of the Rashtrakuta family). Adityavarmarasa is said to have been ruling Kogali five-hundred. The fifty and the thousand are also said to have made a gift of some tolls to a certain Barik-Echa. Chandoja engraved this.

No. 77.

(A. R. No. 36 of 1904.)


This is dated Saka 914, Nandana, Pushya, ba. 12, Sukravara, Uttarayana-samkranti corresponding to A.D. 992 December 23 Friday and belongs to the reign of the Chalukya king Ahavamalladeva who was ruling from Rodda. His feudatory Adityavarmarasa of the Kadamba family, which was noted for ten horse sacrifices, was ruling Kogali five-hundred and Sundavatti twelve. The king is stated to have granted manya lands to the Brahmans, Settis, Gavundas and the five Mathas headed by the sthanadhipati Ganadharadeva and fixed the rate of taxes payable on other lands. It also specifies the fines to be imposed on those who violate customs or commit adultery and other offences. The nose of the woman guilty of adultery is to be cut off and the adulterer put to death. A theif also is to be put to death. Causing wounds and blood by beating is punished by a fine of 8 panas. The Mahajanas, the Gavundas and the five Mathas are exempted from bitti (compulsory labour) in the king’s service.

In the above inscription Sir, what is significant is that both the earlier Chalukya Kings like Pulakesi II, Vikramaditya II etc. have always, through their inscriptions, proudly proclaimed their victories over their contemporaries, especially the Pallavas, who were their prime adversaries before the advent of the Cholas. This practice was followed by a successor of Tailapa, i.e. King Somesvara I (also called Somesvara Ahavamalla and Trailokya Ahavamalla), who in one of his inscriptions of the period 1054-55 claims to be the 'destroyer of Rajadhiraja' (who was killed in battle with Somesvara I at Koppal, but that very war was won by the Cholas because Rajadhiraja's youngest brother Rajendra-II immediately took command of the army, re-galvanized his forces and defeated Somesvara I's army - this fact is in fact, proudly claimed in Chola inscriptions too, which is indicative of intense rivalry between both these houses).

Similarly Raja Raja Chola I too describes himself in his inscriptions as conqueror of the Chera, Pandya and Lanka kingdoms calling himself Mummudi Cholan (occupier of three kingdoms), Raja Raja I also called himself the conqueror of Rattapadi, which is an area north of Manyakheta, capital of the later Chalukyas falling both in modern North Karnataka and Southern Maharashtra.

Sir, what I seek to convey is that while and when Kings of both kingdoms did not hesitate to proclaim their victories over their rivals (including each other), what prevented Tailapa-II (who no doubt first re-claimed the Chalukya Kingdoms from his masters the Rashtrakutas and then spent the subsequent years consolidating and further occupying those territories of the Chalukyas which were in occupation of the Rashtrakutas and their friendly kingdoms)from proudly proclaiming in the above-referred Inscription No. 77what undoubtedly must have been a very famous and remarkable achievement (i.e. victory over or vanquishing of Raja Raja I ande securing 150 elephants etc. etc.) during his reign considering Tailapa-II himself was a very strong king himself and had been ruling since 973 and by 992 AD had already been ruling for 19-20 years and had thoroughly consolidated his kingdom and himself??

With these bits of information and accompanying logic and reasoning, Sir, I hope I have produced convincing evidence in support of my contention which is that it is completely incorrect to say that Raja Raja I the Chola King was defeated by Western (or Later) Chalukya King Tailapa-II in the year 992 AD. I assure you Sir, that I will keep scouring through other history pages, records and inscriptions and produce every available evidence in support of my above contention.

Thank you and I hope that the correct decision will be taken under your direction or supervision. Well surely, I am one interested in correct representation of history and at the same time, I am the first to confess I am not exactly aware of the technical procedures for discussion or correction of facts in various history pages on this website.

There is probably a gateway called WP: Third for seeking third party comments and opinion on changes sought by newer people like me. Could you pls. do that for me? At the same time, kindly also take care that the reviewers are strictly neutral and not those who are more of 'experts' and those interested in the history and culture of one particular state, be it Karnataka or Tamil Nadu. Let this be reviewed by people with a wider perspective.

Thank you very much. In anticipation of just action, I remain, Sir.

Srirangam99 (talk) 11:13, 28 March 2008 (UTC)