Talk:Matzpen

Weasel Terms

the following changes were made and are posted here for discussion:

- Israel/Palestine

• founded in 1962 and active until the 1980s in Israel/Palestine.

changed to:

• founded in 1962 and active until the 1980s in Israel.

main reasoning: The Israeli movement was created within' Israel and not inside "palestinian territories", let alone that until 1967, there were only Egyptian, Jordanian and Israeli territories and no Palestinian ones. Jaakobou 17:15, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

- 1967 occupation

• The organisation grew in the period after the 1967 occupation of the West Bank and Gaza. Its aim was to create a broad front of people opposed to the occupation and in favour of a de-Zionized Israel, which will form part of a socialist federation of the entire Middle East.

changed to:

• The organisation grew in the period after the 1967 Six-Day War. Its aim was to create a broad front of people opposed to what they reffered to as "the occupation" and in favour of a "de-Zionized" Israel, which will form part of a socialist federation of the entire Middle East.

+++

• With the rise of new, vibrant and less ideologicaly rigid protest movements in the 1980s, in opposition to the continued occupation

changed to:

• With the rise of new, vibrant and less ideologicaly rigid protest movements in the 1980s, in opposition to what they described as "the continued occupation"

main reasoning: (1) the combination "1967 occupation" follows a strictly pro-arab/anti-israeli narrative and neglects the aggressive manouvers done by egypt and other in that period of time - i.e. POV presentation. (2) there are different designations to teritories and the current wiki-agreed designation is "disputed territories" and not "occupied" which is POV.

Shalom to my friend Jaakobou. The implication of the phrase "what they descrive as the occupation" rather than the simpler "the occupation" is that the West Bank was not occupied by Israel, but presumably liberated, redeemed, or whatever else. But as this is not a Kahanist blog or an Israeli foreing ministry propoganda site, we should call things as they are, hence the occupation will be called by its actual name. I will also point out that User:Jaakobou has given me a final warning for what he descibes as blanking this page: [1]. This is an attempt to intimidate those with another point of view by means of threats, an approach which I must say is characteristic of occupying regimes. Better to try to reach a consensus with those who disagree with you than try to intimidate them into submission. Best wishes ابو علي (Abu Ali) 18:02, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Hello to my "zionist loving" friend Abu Ali, for starters, i'm not a kahanist and i consider the mentioning to be a personal attack since the movement is outlawed here in israel. secondly, you have not reverted your edit which was done after the talk page conversation occurred (and this is the second time you call out user RolandR to your rescue in a case of wikpedia abuse). lastly, but far more important - same as you might be displeased with the phrasing "what they describe as occupation", i am displeased with the discription "occupation" which is a narrative in support of the arab-muslim dar-al-harb theory. for instance, the term is neglected when jordan and syria and egypt are mentioned and israel is blamed for the Six day war. a more suitable terminology for a situation that is still disputed is "disputed territories" but since we are dealing with an extremists leftist group, we should use their terminology and place the quotation marks on it.

last note, if you and your friend keep "tag team revert" on articles i will be forced to report it - and that is not made as an intimidation threat, it is noted for proper wiki editing protocol... something you still need to get used to.

last last note, you should seriously consider self reverting and continuing the discussion here. Jaakobou 09:08, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Shalom Jaakobou, I didn't say that you were a Kahanist and a don't think that you are. The occupation is not a narrative but the reality on the ground. When you leave school and go to the arm y you will find this out for yourself if you are sent to man a machsom. ابو علي (Abu Ali) 15:27, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

ابو علي (Abu Ali), I've done my 3 years service like we're all forced to do because of the occupation narrative. regardless of your personal designation, the agreed-upon wiki term is "Disputed territories" (and not "occupation"). I first expect that you self revert your obvious tag-team revert so that i may remove the warning from your userpage. and secondly, that you give me a proper reasoning or better phrasing for a more suitable wikipedia agreed terminology for this article than "in opposition to the continued occupation". on a side note, you did not adress the first change as to the time/location of the creation of this organization. Jaakobou 17:16, 25 March 2007 (UTC)