Talk:Liancourt Rocks/Archive 10

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Korean: unstable; Hanja: medium

Requested Move May 2007

Survey to find out which name editors think is the best one under which to place this article. --Philip Baird Shearer 16:43, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

This survey lays out several proposals. Please only express # Support and an explanation followed by a signature for any of the proposals. Please place any comments like Oppose opinions in the Discussion section. You may change your opinions at any time up to the close of the survey. Changing you opinion and supporting more than one option in the Survey is encouraged as it helps to build a consensus. Please add any new proposals at the bottom of the list in chronological order. --Philip Baird Shearer 16:43, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Survey

For previous surveys see:

1. Talk:Liancourt Rocks/Archive 3#Requested move Dokdo → Liancourt Rocks, result of the debate was move, 2 May 2005
2. Talk:Liancourt Rocks/Archive 4#Requested move Liancourt Rocks → Dokdo, result of the debate was move, 1 June 2006

--Philip Baird Shearer 15:57, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Keep the article at Dokdo

1. Support local name used by entity in actual possession, arguably most common in English. --Reuben 16:46, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
2. Support b/c it has the most hits on Google web, Google book, the major newspapers, major websites (i.e. UN.org), etc., as shown in the archived discussion. 17:29, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Move the article back to Liancourt Rocks

1. Support This is my first option as it complies with WP:NPOV --Philip Baird Shearer 16:43, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
2. Support Reasonably neutral name --Reuben 16:47, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
3. Support Disputed territories should never be referred to by names used by any of the claimants --H27kim 17:36, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Move to Takeshima/Dokdo

1. Support This is a second option as I don't like a slash in a name (means something in a URL) and which of the two names should come first--Philip Baird Shearer 16:43, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Move to Dokdo/Takeshima

1. Support This is a second option as I don't like a slash in a name (means something in a URL) and which of the two names should come first--Philip Baird Shearer 16:43, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

I think enough time has passed since the last WP:RM (in 1 June 2006) for another to be held. So I am going to post this to WP:RM --Philip Baird Shearer 16:47, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

See Archive 9: Data on reliable sources for a survey of names in carried out on "Encyclopedias", "Newspapers", "Reliable websites" and "Google Books" about a week ago. Also another earlier survey Archive 9: Data from archive --Philip Baird Shearer 17:28, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

The "most common name" from the Wikipedia:Naming conventions guidlines does not trump Wikipedia:Neutral point of view policy. As Liancourt Rocks is a neutral name in the ongoing dispute over the ownership of Dokdo/Takeshima, I think that this article should be placed under that name. The guideline Wikipedia:Words to avoid makes a valid point under the section "Extremist, terrorist and freedom fighter" to paraphrase "Use of the name Dokdo or Takeshima implies a moral cliam to the island, if one party can successfully attach the label to the island, then it has indirectly persuaded others to adopt its viewpoint. --Philip Baird Shearer 16:47, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

The problem that I see with the article names of "Takeshima/Dokdo" or "Dokdo/Takeshima" is which name comes first. I can see that being as much a debate as whether it resides at Dokdo or Takeshima. Further because a "/" implies a URL hierarchy I think that names with a "/" in them should be depreciated. --Philip Baird Shearer 17:00, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I request that certain discussions (i.e. the ones containing the data of the web results, etc.) be restored from archive. That way, people who are not familiar with this dispute may have more factors to consider in making votes. (Wikimachine 17:31, 21 May 2007 (UTC))

Restored data from archive

Names of Media	Dokdo	Liancourt Rocks	Takeshima
Newyork Times (Since 1981)	12	1	11
CNN.COM	54	0	80(* many were names)
news.BBC.co.uk	29	12	25
Google News	16	0	12*
MSNBC	0	0	0
FOX	10	0	10
ABC	9	N/A	9
TIME	7	0	7
Bloomberg	22	9	22
UN	11	1	4

Names of Media	Dokdo	Liancourt Rocks	Takeshima
*.EDU domain	191[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8]	51[9]	(238 total,[10] see below)
*.GOV domain	50[11][12][13][14][15][16]	19[17]	(51,[18] see below)
*.UK domain	183[19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26]	41[27]	(117,[28] see below)
*.COM domain	2011[29][30][31][32][33][34][35][36][37][38]	334[39]	(396,[40] see below)
*.NET domain	844[41][42][43][44][45][46][47][48][49]	163[50]	(267,[51] see below)

Google Books

• Dokdo: 77[52]
• Liancourt Rocks: 66[53]
• Takeshima: 102[54]

• Note: Takeshima is also used as a name.
• Note: actual count of books concerning the island is 16.

• Data:

• 2 on 1st page[55]
• 1 on 2nd[56]
• 2 on 3rd page[57]
• 3 on 4th page[58]
• 0 on 5th page[59]
• 2 on 6th page[60]
• 2 on 7th[61]
• 1 on 8th[62]
• 1 on 9th[http://books.google.com/books?client=firefox-a&um=1&lr=&q=Takeshima&ie=ISO-8859-1&sa=N&start=80
• 2 on 10th[63]
• N/A on 11th[64]

(17:37, 21 May 2007 (UTC)~)