User talk:Skyring

The previous discussions on this page have been archived. If further archiving is needed, see Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page.

Previous discussions:

• Archive 1 (Dec 2004 to July 2008):

Getting back to work

First off, I'd like to thank Jimbo, David Gerard and one other editor for their patience and understanding over the past year. It has made the world of difference.

Second, no thanks to those people (including myself) who made things needlessly difficult.

And that's the last time I'll raise the subject. Pete 00:21, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Looks like I got it wrong. Not to worry. I'll be back making productive edits in four weeks. And to the the well-meaning soul who reverted my talk page, thanks, but I'm capable of keeping this little bit of Wikipedia clean and tidy all by myself! Pete 05:30, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Userpage unprotected as requested. Good luck. --Doc 00:00, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Doc! Pete 00:11, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Orphaned public domain images

The following images were uploaded by you, but are currently not in use. They have been tagged as public domain (PD), either as PD-self or other PD claim, or equivilant. These unused PD images may be subject to deletion as orphans. You may wish to add them to an article, tag them for copying to WP commons {{Copy to Wikimedia Commons}} or if they are no longer needed, they can be nominated for deletion by following the easy three step process at Images and media for deletion. If you have any questions, please leave me a note on my talk page. --Gay Cdn (talk) (Contr.) 02:24, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

• Image:QVBInt.JPG
• Image:POFASwan.JPG

Thanks for the message

Hey Pete, Many thanks for the message. I know we did clash but I am very glad to see you back on WP. You have a lot to contribute. I must admit the date thing on WP can be irritating. I was glad to help out. I didn't realise how hard it is to let this place go. I'd weaned myself off it a few weeks ago, following a 'one more day not on Wikipedia' principle but last night was back on to check some facts for research and when I saw that people had been asking where I had gone, felt I'd better give some explanation. The fact that I have been battling a rather serious illness for a couple of months didn't help, though thankfully among the range of possible causes of the illness (everything from serious but fixible to life threatening) it seems to have been the former.

Again, thanks for the message. It was appreciated. I'll reply to other people's (I am so touched by the response) perhaps tomorrow. Because of health problems I am supposed to be taking things slowly and spending a lot of time in bed recovering. Hence, that is is why I am on here at 4am GMT!!! lol This time, having checked my emails I'll definitely go to sleep.

And again, I am glad to see you back on WP. I was hoping that what happened before wouldn't discourage you from returning. You have a lot to offer. One tip though: speaking from experience (mine and so many other people I have met here), don't let WP take over your life too much. It is amazing the number of wikiholics out there. I may be a recovering one but I probably will have the odd relapse. Even last night, while doing the research I came across errors and found myself correcting things (my doctor would be furious if he knew that. I'm supposed to be resting totally, not doing Wikipedia stuff!!) WP can be fun, frustrating, challenging, rewarding, annoying, infuriating and passionate. Those of us, and there are a lot of us on here, who are facts wonks, and devour information, forever want to keep adding and correcting. Unfortunately doing that was getting harder, not just physically because of illness but also because I ended up spending so much time fighting vandalism, fixing templates, correcting dates, working on conventions on naming, etc. If I did as much hard work in my paid jobs as I did here I'd be rich. (Or if I charged WP the going academic rate for doing research I'd be very rich!!!)

Best wishes, and take care.

Thom FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 04:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi

Hi

Even though we had our problems i hope your return proves a new beginning. PMA 08:55, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

That's up to you, really. I certainly haven't gone away from Wikipedia over the past year and we've worked amicably and productively here together over that period. --Pete 22:45, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Boeing has orders for 4 new 747-8I?

Why did you remove the orders by "Boeing Business Jet" from my chart comparing orders for Airbus A380 and Boeing 747-8? Also, why did you remove the link on the A380 page? user:mnw2000 00:18, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Boeing Business Jet is not an airline, as indicated in the edit summary. The reference on the Airbus 380 page was poorly worded and out of character with the surrounding text. There seems to be little encyclopaedic value in the table. If you could give me an idea of your objective? --Pete 03:31, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

For the purpose of listing aircraft orders, Boeing Business Jet is considered a purchaser. Leasing companies are also listed even though they purchase aircraft to lease to others. This is the practice of airline manufacturers. The purpose of a comparison chart is to show information in context. For example, many aircraft show the statistics (width, number of seats, etc. in relationship to similar aircraft.) Since these two aircraft are the only two new super jumbo aircraft, a comparison chart is most informative. user:mnw2000 05:33, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I take your point on BBJ. Nevertheless, it is a stretch to regard the 747-8 as anything other than another model of the 747, and comparing it to the A380 is of very dubious encyclopaedic relevance. Why don't you write an article on Airbus vs Boeing, include this table (and others), and we can clean out all the guff about comparisons and competitors from the aircraft articles. By and large this sort of material only serves to attract POV pushers who are keen to advance the merits of their preferred manufacturer and denigrate the other, with varying degrees of subtleness. --Pete 12:14, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

You

I see you are back. In the spirit of the season I am willing to let bygones be bygones. But if you even once engage in the kind of crap you engaged in the last time you were here, I will immediately start proceedings to have you banned again. I hope I make myself clear. Adam 00:21, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your welcome, Adam. I've managed to work productively with you (and Jtdirl and others) on a couple of things over the past year, so I can't see any reason why we shouldn't continue to do so. May I suggest that you take it easy, not stress out over trivia, let things wash over you and let others share the load. It's a team effort. --Pete 02:25, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Unauthorized modifications to Talk:Airbus A380

It is rude and against policy to remove on-topic comments from discussion pages. I suggest not doing it again. —Joseph/N328KF (Talk) 23:11, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

One editor asked, "Is there any information available concerning the shipment of parts through the Polet Air An-124s?". This is a pertinent question, considering the various methods of delivery of the larger assemblies of the A380. To which BillCJ replied, "I've heard acquiring parts won't be a problem once there is a good number of A380s in service. There'll be plenty of spare parts available on any runway, ths sides of the runway, and on approaches to the airports.". This is not on-topic. It is nonsense, and in no way assists the article or any meaningful discussion. I am surprised that an editor of your standing took it seriously. However, I have kept the comment on the talk page. --Pete 23:44, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Spelling Concerns

Ok, so I've made all the necessary corrections. Perhaps something regarding the dialects related to the articles should be mentioned in the pages for people new to Wikipedia. I looked, and I haven't seen anything in those pages. Perhaps I am wrong and just didn't see it, but this small incident could've been prevented had I known. the cheat 16:45, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Pauline Hanson

You have just again deleted a dection of text, this time with the misleading minor label, and with the false claim that your action was justified by discussion at the Talk page (that discussion has not yet reached a conclusion or consensus). If you do this again, I shall block you for disruptive editing.

Please remember to mark your edits as minor when (and only when) they genuinely are minor edits (see Wikipedia:Minor edit). Marking a major change as a minor one (and vice versa) is considered poor etiquette. The rule of thumb is that only an edit that consists solely of spelling corrections, formatting and minor rearranging of text should be flagged as a 'minor edit'. Thanks! --Mel Etitis (Talk) 09:20, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Mel! Suggest that you fully review the history before jumping into battle half-clad, posturing. I typically mark reversions of vandalism as minor, and this little piece of twaddle hs been repeatedly removed by several editors in several differet forms, most recently as a quotation. --Pete 12:58, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

It can in no sense be regarded as vandalism reversion, as the discussion at Talk page demonstrates (and the fact that you appealed to discussion there indicates that you realised this). This is clearly a content dispute, and the minor tag is inappropriate. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 14:32, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Please do not project thoughts into my head that were never there. I marked it as minor because I regarded it as vandalism reversion. --Pete 14:39, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Yet you didn't call it vandalism, but an edit in line with Talk-page discussion? Given that it clearly wasn't either, I decided to take your word for your intentions; now you say that I shouldn't have believed you, because your edit summary was (deliberately?) misleading? --Mel Etitis (Talk) 14:59, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Please do not waste my time with your suppositions as to my thought processes. You are wrong, simple as that. --Pete 15:07, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

That's 4 reverts by my reckoning. Merbabu 12:14, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Keep on reinserting poorly-sourced rubbish into a biography of a living person, and I'll keep on removing it. I suggest that it is better to leave material out of an article when it has been challenged under WP:BLP until a clear consensus emerges that we can use it. --Pete 12:37, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for 3RR violation on Pauline Hanson. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by replying here on your talk page, by adding the text {{unblock|your reason here}} .

Heimstern Läufer 03:16, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Skyring (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

---

Request reason:

I have been removing negative material from a biography of a controversial politician because it is poorly sourced and one statement is patently untrue. See detailed discussion at Talk:Pauline Hanson and WP:BLP Noticeboard. I also note that if this is being treated as an edit war, then the actions of the other parties surely deserve similar sanction.

Decline reason:

Peter, can you please explain why you feel the cited sources are poor sources and what is "patently untrue"? The DNA testing was reported fairly widely in the Australian press and I'm having trouble seeing why you feel this is something other than a content dispute. "Please explain" -- Sarah 10:45, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

---

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Thanks, Sarah. It's in the links I provided, and I'm sorry that you didn't work through them in detail. There's only one source - any other media mentions stem from the original print story. We don't have corroborating versions of the same event, we only have one story which is an obvious media set-up. However, even if you regard the story as honest factual reporting, it doesn't state what is being claimed in the Pauline Hanson article. Our article says, 'a DNA test reported that Hanson has some Middle Eastern ancestry, which she attributed to "rape and pillage",'. However, Ms Hanson did not attribute the result to "rape and pillage", because the print article does not state this, instead saying, 'When told of the results, the former fish and chip shop owner appeared flustered, making references to "rape and pillage" in ancient times'. For Wikipedia to state this implication as solid fact is to engage in original research. For biographies of living people we have to be very careful of what we say, and close enough is not good enough. We have to be accurate in every detail. --Pete 11:32, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Unblock request & misrepresentations

I'm not sure what part of the quote you claim is untrue - or how you would know it is untrue. Its primary source was a major newspaper and was subsequently reported thru other outlets. The veracity of the story (as opposed to the veracity of the test) has not been challenged by any source. Hence, it is a simple content dispute, your claim that it is poorly sourced is untrue.

As for other editors, no other editor has broken three-reverts, at least by my calculations. For myself, i flagged in my edit summary when I was up and let you revert it for your 4th time and I have not touched it since - nor will I, as I have better things to do than count reverts. What's more, when it was pointed out you had had your 4th, you promised to keep reverting [1] while.--Merbabu 09:52, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I think at best that's being a little rich to all of a sudden accuse people of making false claims. Where exactly has someone made a false claim and then secondly been found out? The truth is, all of sudden you are suddenly happy with "reported that" rather than "attributed" - that's all. You could have done that ages ago yourself, instead of simply removing the whole quote. Now for the first time you are commenting on the way it is written, not the quote (at least that's what i see). As much as your accusations stink I am happy to let it go (without an 'apology' or retraction - lol), and I'm sure the others feel that way. If you want it take it further, take it to some third party and I will follow. Otherwise, start assuming good faith, i know I don't have to give you link to that one. As I said, happy to drop it here, you can even remove it from your talk page.Merbabu 11:18, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Inverell Forum

Pete/Skyring

... I have an email from Inverell Forum stating...

"Dear Peter,

Unfortunately Pauline pulled out last weekend as did Bob Carter.

Regards

XXX"

(Name removed for obvious reasons).

--PeterMarkSmith 05:24, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Take a look at the google cache for the Inverell Forum - she was listed at some point...

[http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:1jY4B06Rm8gJ:www.australiafirst.net/2007/news200702inverell.htm+www.inverellforum.org+Speakers&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=sg ]

--PeterMarkSmith 01:38, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

If it's relevant, put it on the article talk page so all interested editors can see it. The idea is that we work as a team, not as individuals. --Pete 15:20, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

John Howard

I have amended the wording again. Let's see if we can reach a consensus on this on the JH talk page. Face the fact John Howard can loose an election it's not a crime to do so or to point this out. Albatross2147 01:22, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

A matter of historical fact, to be sure. I have no problems with that. What is against the spirit of Wikipedia is your editorialising. --Pete 01:24, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Pete you're in no position to cast aspersions however due to your riding shotgun I feel that we have got to a suitable wording with clear citations which both of us should be comfortable with. Believe me I agree with your attitude and I know I wear my heart on my sleeve. You will note it was never a true revert war merely a steady revision. BTW dDo you want to have a go at developing a collaboration on John Carrick who really should have an article? Cheers Albatross2147 03:20, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

My bent is towards correcting errors and fixing vndalism, rather than creating great slabs of text or new articles. The Saint John's Church, Richmond, Virginia article is a rarity. --Pete 05:17, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

You say What is against the spirit of Wikipedia is your editorialising.. Are we to take this as a non-core statement by you given your misrepresentation of Rudd's attendance at "the Dinner". You can't be a guest of honour unless you know you are and there is no evidence of Rudd knowing he was going to be. Albatross2147 02:44, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

"You can't be a guest of honour unless you know you are". See This Is Your Life. --Pete 03:37, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

St. John's

Pete: Thank you for your earlier work and your kind words. Building upon your initial work, I have been working on improvements in the article during the night here. I had earlier done considerable work on many of the linked articles I added. It is always nice to know someone appreciates our efforts on WP. Thanks. Mark in Historic Triangle of Virginia Vaoverland 10:12, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

84 Charing Cross Road

FYI, the edits you made to the dates in this article were unnecessary. If you enter a date in brackets without a comma separating the day from the year, US Wikipedia will show it as March 19, 2007 and UK Wikipedia will show it as 19 March 2007. I learned this from another editor and thought I'd pass the info on to you. SFTVLGUY2 14:28, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. You are talking about date preferences, which most of our readers don't use. May I direct you to the Manual of Style? --Pete 19:01, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I was talking abour your changing a date from December 7 to 7 December for no logical reason, since entered either way it reads the same. What I explained to you in my initial message is exactly what is stated in Manual of Style, so I'm not sure why you directed me to it. SFTVLGUY2 14:31, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

If you could be so very kind as to actually read it, maybe that would help.

Here is the relevant section:

If the topic itself concerns a specific country, editors may choose to use the date format used in that country. This is useful even if the dates are linked, because new users and users without a Wikipedia account do not have any date preferences set, and so they see whatever format was typed. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style#National varieties of English for more guidance.

If this is unclear, then please raise it on the discussion page and perhaps the wording can be altered for you. --Pete 20:24, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Considering Petula Clark is British, has homes in Geneva, Paris, London, and Miami Beach, and entertains worldwide, I find it difficult to understand how "the topic itself concerns a specific country"!!! Furthermore, even if the situation applied, the above statement says, "editors may choose to use the date format used in that country," it doesn't say they must. SFTVLGUY2 20:25, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

So, using your own logic, you'd have no trouble at all if U.S. entertainers with a global reach had their significant dates changed to International Dating format? U.S. citizen, U.S. spelling, U.S. dates. British citizen. British spelling, British dates. Sounds good to me. I suggest that you follow the link given in WP:DATE for guidance, and consider WP:DICK as the community's advice to you. --Pete 23:39, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

What makes you think anyone would be willing to take advice from someone as arrogant as you? The bottom line is, no matter how you enter the date, if I'm reading it in the US it will show as March 22, 2007 and if I'm reading it elsewhere it will show as 22 March 2007, so your nit-picking is a waste of my valuable time, which is better spent writing new articles, something you might consider doing before I give you any credence. SFTVLGUY2 13:53, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Uh, I think that you have been poorly advised on date formats and how they work. I suggest that you read the long discussion on the talk page for WP:DATE and you may gain some understanding of how the system works. If you need help, just ask someone. As for wasting your valuable time, obviously you consider the subject important enough to engage your attention, despite your assurances to me that it is trivial. If you really care about date formats, then please educate yourself on the long policy discussions. If not, then choose something else to do, as per your own excellent advice. --Pete 16:16, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Apology accepted; I never understood why you chose to make it personal; I only got involved because I had higher expectations of the arbcom being able to to do something to move the Aus. government stalemate along. My typing is pretty appalling; I really don't mind if you fix it :) --Peta 02:02, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

It seemed to me that I was being ganged up on and my reaction should be to give as good as I got, considering that several admins were providing the example. It seemed entirely plausible to me that Jtdirl, once he had discovered my address, should share it with others privately (as well as publicly on his talk page), and when a woman immediately turned up acting very oddly outside my house, I connected the dots. Wrongly, as it turns out. I was extremely disappointed that the ArbCom didn't do a better job of understanding the situation. When they apparently condoned the bullying behaviour, I figured that Wikipedia was a place where "do as I say, not do as I do" applied, and I could attack my tormenters in the way they had attacked me.

As for your spelling, that's something (like date formats but more so) that has me hitting the edit button. I like fixing little errors, and Lord knows that you provided a steady supply. As did jtdirl: his work is usually excellent, but there was one period where he must have been short of sleep or something, and I latched onto those - with delight.

Anyway, that's all in the past, and I don't have much time for editing nowadays. What bugs me about Wikipedia is the way that good articles get distorted by cranks. Political biographies, for example, are being nibbled away at, with supporters of one side adding negative material and quietly removing anything positive. Or the other side doing the reverse. The way things are set up, it needs eternal vigilance to keep a good article good. While it's all very well to have a watchlist, who has the time to keep tabs on everything?. --Pete 17:56, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Template birth date and age

I didn't notice your question at Template talk:Birth date and age#Day first option until after I had done more work on these templates. I have now answered your question. I apologize for continuing to work on these templates without answering your question. -- Patleahy 08:14, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

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List of Australian Leaders of the Opposition

In regards to the above article and your comments left on my talk page, putting the dates in the format they are shown just shows my personal preference for the dates, and the way all my contributions are written. What do you think is the Australian standard?.....Todd^#661 07:58, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I suggest that you look at WP:DATE and follow the links for lists of the formats used in various nations, which are the standard formats used by Wikipedia. Our own personal preferences are irrelevant. Again, I ask you to convert the dates in this article to the correct format, in the interest of improving the overall quality of Wikipedia, which is, after all, an international project. --Pete 18:44, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Australia

Please assume good faith when dealing with other editors, which you did not on Australia. Thank you. Alec ^{-(answering machine)} 01:01, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

AGF applies to give the benefit of the doubt. Looking at your history of edits along the same theme, there is no doubt at all, and I believe that I have called the situation accurately. --Pete 01:08, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

You're the one who is edit warring, I was trying to provide a compromise. Alec ^{-(answering machine)} 01:24, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Alec, it was not a 'compromise'(ie, committee-negotiated middle ground that's not really satisfying), rather the most appropriate way. Well done. Such collaboration and thining of superior solutions, instead of combat and poor faith attrition wars is what we need. Funny how it is 'edit warring' when you weren't the one blindly reverting and accusing all opposing as poltically biased. 'Wrong version' indeed. Merbabu 01:36, 31 May 2007 (UTC)