User talk:Merbabu

TALK TO ME!

Go on, just click!. I'm happy to discuss anything. Also, check out MY USERPAGE.

(Please note, there is a good chance I will ignore—or simply remove—what I perceive to be incivility, trolling or bullying).

Kind regards and happy editing - Merbabu

Archives

Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3 December 2006 January 2007 February 2007 March 2007 April 2007 May 2007 June 2007 July 2007 August 2007

VOC

Thanks so much for your needed comment about that newest graphic addition to the VOC article.

"Whoa" is a good first word. I must say that I had a similar reaction; but I was disinclined to get involved -- too many other irons in the fire.

In this context, I have a question -- not a suggestion, but really only a question: I wonder if the Indonesia history time-line/chronlogy box would be better moved to another place a little bit farther down in the text. I take it that you will agree that (1) there is a period in which the VOC is only a mercantile adventure: and (2) there is a certain point in time in which the VOC is irrevocably linked with the history of what becomes modern Indonesia. Obviously this graphic needs to stay -- absolutely. But if it were moved down the page, there would be more room for considering the VOC a priori as a mere commercial enterprise which "evolves" ....

In the process of working through this trivial issue of format and image placement, and you would take the lead steps in the diplomatic dance which will eventually arise when, for example, the VOC place in the histories of what will become Brazil or South Africa becomes something which others could be inclined to consider urgent. Do you see my point?

Just a thought, nothing more. I'm personally interested in the VOC in only a tangential way, but a few thoughts did occur ... which I'm now sharing. Hm-m-m-m? --Ooperhoofd 02:28, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I can see some (all?) of your points. There is a good argument to separate out the reporting of the VOC as an entity, and the reporting of that period of Indonesian history where the VOC played a big role. How that is done is up for the debate - separate articles, one article separate sections, or other? Currently, the two sometimes opposing ideas (VOC vs. period of Indonesian history) are lumped into together. If they were separate articles - for example - this lack of direction and tension in the article would be removed. Ie, there is more info that I would like to add (one day) about Indonesia during this time, in which the VOC is sometimes central, and other times it is not.

Thanks for bringing this up. It needs more thought. Can we move it to the Dutch East India Company talk page? --Merbabu 02:35, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject U2 September 2007

The U2 WikiProject Newsletter Issue IV - 1st September 2007 If you would like to help out with future newsletters, please contact the Outreach Department.
“I am not afraid Of anything in this world There's nothing you can throw at me That I haven't already heard” U2 News "PopMart: Live From Mexico City" will be released on DVD on September 10. A list of U2's other video releases can be found here. U2's new film, U23D, is due for 3D theatre release later this year. U2 are currently working with Brian Eno and Daniel Lanois on their new album in North Africa and France. Project News Don't forget that the Collaboration of the Fortnight Department is up-and-running. The collaboration this fortnight is The Edge. If you would like to nominate an article, go to the Collaboration of the Fortnight Talk Page. If you have any questions contact Smithcool or Neranei. Member News Also Neranei has recently started the U2 Portal. Don't forget to visit it when you can. Did You Know? On front cover of All That You Can't Leave Behind is a very subtle Biblical reference. In the background J 33-3 can be seen. This is a reference to verse 33 of chapter 3 of the book of Jeremiah: "Call to me and I will answer you and tell you great and hidden things which you have not known."	From the Editors Welcome to the September Edition of the U2 WikiProject Newsletter. The theme for this newletter is "All That You Can't Leave Behind". We hope you enjoy reading it! New Members Our new members this month are Keeper76 and Jort227. We have now reached 40 members. The Album The album was released on October 30, 2000. It debuted at #1 in 28 countries and sold over 12 million copies worldwide. This album marked the end of U2's experimental phase in the 90's. However, they did not really return to their more traditional rock sound until How to Dismantle An Atomic Bomb. Rolling Stone called it "U2's third masterpiece". The song "Stuck In A Moment You Can't Get Out Of" was written by Bono for his late friend, Michael Hutchence. On several occasions the band said that they were "re-applying for the job of the best band in the world" with this album. The singles released from the album are: Beautiful Day, Stuck In A Moment You Can't Get Out Of, Walk On and Elevation. Take a look at the All That You Can't Leave Behind article for more info.
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"Malay race"

Hello Merbabu, I have responded to your comment in Talk:Malays (ethnic group). I want to add that basically, the problem is about what makes "ethnicity". I suspect it can easily be confused with "identity", something that tends to be subjective and ideological. Language at least is a clear criterium but of course I admit it is somewhat restrictive, Anda Djoehana 08:15, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Cheers

Thanks for the word of encouragement. I must extend my congratulations to you for driving the Indonesia article to great heights of quality. Prester John ^{-(Talk to the Hand)} 04:35, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

on Bali

LOL, I got warning of vandalism. :-)) — Indon (reply) — 07:13, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the note--no time to reply

Dear Merbabu, Thanks for the note. I really appreciate the connection. I've got heaps to say in reply , but no time to do so. Suffice for now to say thanks. Peace, --Dylanfly 17:57, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Still little time to write, but... Without enumerating the differences so far, I think some of them boil down to a disagreement about neutrality and POV. My personal feeling is that you've represented your own position as objective, while characterizing me as an ideologue. Maybe you didn't intend to portray me in this light, but your use of words like "emotive" "rant" and "NPOV" toward me could serve to give that impression. I think we could find a lot of common ground on that topic--you'd be surprised how often I edit out unreferenced stuff that I'm sympathetic to (e.g. my deletion of ABRI's alleged raping of 'little Chinese girls'; I've got no love for ABRI, but let's see the evidence on that one). From your contributions (which, by the way, are substantial, substantive, and invaluable to the Indonesian articles) I infer that you are somewhat more friendly to the position of the Washington Consensus and positivism than I am. In principle, I generally agree with WP:NPOV, but with a huge grain of salt. Everything's ideological: ain't no way out. That said, if I go on WP to read about John Howard (whom I dislike), I expect a pretty balanced representation, with contribs from people of all stripes and spots.

Ditto for Indonesia. But right now, I look at the article and see a World Bank document, a CIA FACTBOOK piece; an article that the Indonesian oligarchy could be happy with. It speaks glowingly of structural adjustment--hardly an NPOV position. Does the article accurately inform the reader about the basics of Indonesia? Overall, I'd say the article gives a saccharine, sanguine take on Indonesia, one which prioritizes the superficial edifice over the structural content. That in no way is meant to insult the people who have dedicated time and effort to the page (though I realize it might sound insulting), but rather is to highlight that the normative representation of Indonesia is not objective. Rather, it is the hard-won POV of American post-WWII hegemony.

Anyway, I'd ask that you trust in me and in my erudition, and trust that I don't work for a politburo. If my role on WP:Indonesia is limited to that of a gadfly, so be it. In the end, I'd also ask to to examine your own sense of objectivity--it's an intellectually problematic posture to assume, no matter how worthy the goal. Thanks again for the dialogue, --Dylanfly 17:40, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Orangutan

Got to say I have some concerns too. --Michael Johnson 00:46, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Selected biography

I just saw today our weekly's biography. I didn't know you're fan of her. :-) Nice one for variety of biographies. — Indon (reply) — 09:01, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

ha ha ha - I just think the Indonesia portal should show as much diversity as possible, just like Indonesia itself - we should list complex revolutionary leaders, religious leaders, influential writers, and yes, gyrating pop starlets. --Merbabu 10:21, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

PS, you've been damn busy on the project in the last day - your name is smeared all over my watchlist. ha ha. We have Friday as a special public holiday - APEC meeting. What will they wear on the last day? --Merbabu 10:27, 6 September 2007 (UTC)