User talk:Xoloz

This is my talk page. Like most Wikipedians, I reserve the right to refactor it for archival reasons. Please do not mark any message addition as "minor"; if you do, I won't know that you've written. Please do write: I'm lonely. Xoloz

My talk archives are here: archive1, archive2, archive3, archive4, archive5, archive6, archive7, archive8, archive9, archive10, archive11, archive12, archive13, archive14, archive15, archive16, archive17, archive18, archive19, and archive20.

Patrick Alexander (Cartoonist)

Morning! You may remember closing the discussion for the above article last month. It appears it was recreated under a different name on the very same day by a disgruntled supporter of the aricle. Please see my post on the subject here. It has already been independently renominated for deletion but the discussion was rather stunted due to only those who took part in the article's stealth recreation being present! :D Given it's a straight reproduction of this previously (twice and one review) deleted article I'd request this be deleted straight off the bat. At the very least it should be relisted in AfD. Many thanks. Hen Features 04:56, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

On Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2007 October 5 there is a review of Patrick Alexander (cartoonist). The user who recreated that page got very frustrated, created a puppet, and used the puppet to create nearly identical text at Patrick A. Reid (that is not GFDL compliant, given the deleted history of the original title). (No I didn't. DollyD (talk) 20:28, 18 November 2007 (UTC)) You closed the DRV as "Deletion endorsed. Interested parties are welcome to compose newly sourced drafts in userspace, and bring those to DRV for discussion. Title protected-blank (salted) per consensus below." The other article went to AFD, and got a keep closure yesterday from User:Hut 8.5, an admin, which is quite reasonable on the evidence of that AFD. But it sure feels like abusively asking another parent. (I've blocked the puppet, though since it was only used once over a month ago I haven't done anything about the puppetmaster.) The editor that flagged my attention has also flagged Hut 8.5's. GRBerry 05:45, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

• Update: Admin Hut8.5 has called the article back in for a deletion review. To my mind it's a speedy delete, and I've made my point on the review. Hen Features 08:30, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, that's a novel procedural headache. Unfortunately, the closed AfD could be argued to form a new consensus (even though it was obviously concluded without full information.) A DRV is probably the proper course, to ensure that the invalidation of the latest AfD also has community support, if nothing else. I don't think a speedy close at the DRV is appropriate, but I won't argue with anyone who does so. Best wishes, Xoloz 14:21, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

RfA

I considered not spamming talk pages but not saying "thanks" just isn't me. The support was remarkable and appreciated. I only hope that I am able to help a little on here. Please let me know if I can help you or equally if you find any of my actions questionable. Thanks & regards --Herby ^{talk thyme} 11:45, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Nancy Reagan image DRV

Hi Xoloz. I added a warning to Happyme22's page. It may need more than that, so I asked Angr to look into it. Thanks for the note.[1] -- Jreferee t/c 22:59, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

User box on my page

Is it normal not to give the person who created something time to respond before you go and delete it? That tag was put on my USER page at 4 pm local, and was deleted before I even had a chance to respond to it. I am still at work and had intended to mark respond top the tag when I got home.

Bad Mojo.

Jeremy (Jerem43 (talk) 05:28, 17 November 2007 (UTC))

Cheers

I replied on my talk page. - 211.30.71.131 (talk) 14:04, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Thx spam

Thank you, Xoloz, for supporting my RfB, which I withdrew at a final tally of (33/12/1). I failed to overcome the not unforeseeable opposition, but I am humbled by some extremely supportive, encouraging words I could read. In order to honor your trust, I once again vow to continue working and improving. Please contact me should you have any advice or recommendation to give. Or, should you need assistance. I am, as will always be, at your service. Again, please accept my most sincere gratitude. Best regards, Húsönd 02:52, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

To you, Xoloz, I would like to express even greater gratitude for the way you defended me, in circumstances where should I use my own words, I could be rest assured that they would be manipulated right against me. :-) Best regards, Húsönd 02:52, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Curious...

I'm not quite so sure you did the right thing by endorsing that deletion, but I guess it's done. I did mention that the original seemed to me that there wasn't actually consensus...but what I really want to say, is I'm willing to bet a few people will be flaming you about this. Possibly digging up to see if you've ever mentioned the spoiler issue before...so just a heads up in case you didn't realize just how hot a topic this is and how passionate both sides have taken the issue. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 14:04, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind warning. :) Fortunately, I've never said anything about the spoiler issue before; if anything, I have a little history of disagreement with Guy's controversial closures (though not enough to amount to a bias.) In this case, the consensus was just overwhelming: about 2-1 in favor of endorsing, which, for a contentious DRV, is quite a large margin. Best wishes, Xoloz (talk) 14:18, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Wow. In I dunno, 3 CfDs and maybe 2 Deletion Reviews, the "consensus" ranged from 2-1 to 3-1 for either Keep the Erdos Number Categories, or Overturn the deletion of the categories. But you ruled the "consensus" was opposite to the count in all those cases, correct? So the meaningfulness of the count varies around, from significant, in whatever this case Melodia mentions, to misleading, in the Erdos Number Case? I had been arguing the "consensus was just overwhelming" but it got me nowhere. So far. Pete St.John (talk) 18:03, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

You're absolutely correct, Pete, to suggest that numerical support can have varying importance. In cases where policy is clear, only good arguments will succeed, irrespective of numbers. In cases where there is no over-arching policy, numerical support can have more meaning. You'd do well, Pete, to stick to your own case (and I never heard back from you on those issues), and not to confuse two cases, since (by your own admission), you don't really know what Melodia is talking about. Best wishes, Xoloz (talk) 19:59, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I was just struck by the vivid contrast. So we agree that more should be said than "the count was overwhelming". And indeed, I'm not familiar with Melodia's issue and don't mean to butt in on that. And indeed, I'm spread a little thin just with my own case. If there is a particular specific thing you'd like me to answer sooner than later, please point me and I'd be happy to. Elsewise I'm taking my time building my case for RfA as it's so complex over so much material. But I really don't mean to neglect any particular questions. Thanks, Pete St.John (talk) 20:05, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

More crossposting. You wrote at my page (thanks):

• "Oh no, I have no specific questions for you... I simply would have expected a relevant reply before a tangential one, but -- this being a wiki -- you are free to comment as you wish, more or less. Good luck with the RfAr -- if it is accepted, it will certainly be trail-blazing and unprecedented, and I'd look forward to the result. Best wishes, Xoloz (talk) 20:10, 19 November 2007 (UTC)"

I consider the "overwhelming counts" as admissable evidence for consensus, as you do too in some cases, so I consider this relevant and not tangential. And yes, I have to read through some RfAr. Hopefully there is precedent for overturning administrative fiat that flatly and blatantly contradicts strong, vivid, professionally debated consensus, in favor of ill-enunciated theories being only now proposed as new wiki guidlines, after the fact. (It's too early to say that they are not being well received, maybe they will be). Thanks for the good wishes, and I hope you look forward to participating, and not merely awaiting the result, as I think at the very least you can help maintain the civil tone of the discussion :-) Pete St.John (talk) 20:25, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

DRV is to review if the deletion discussion went how it should. Regardless of the inevitable fate of that template, you closing the DRV as delete is a disrespectful slap in the face to everyone involved. The deletion did not reflect consensus, and it did not reflect deletion policy. Don't get me wrong, I'm ok with the template being dead, but this is not how you handle things. I'll be relisting this for another DRV. -- Ned Scott (talk) 22:13, 19 November 2007 (UTC)