Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Atheism

Atheism articles by quality and importance Quality Importance Top High Mid Low NA ??? Total FA 2 2 3 7 FL 1 1 GA 2 10 8 20 B 7 24 36 52 7 126 C 2 30 38 90 31 191 Start 1 13 46 159 61 280 Stub 1 8 73 18 100 List 17 1 10 2 30 Category 264 264 Disambig 2 2 File 7 7 Project 6 6 Redirect 7 11 21 39 Template 26 26 Other 1 7 8 Assessed 10 89 149 407 333 119 1,107 Total 10 89 149 407 333 119 1,107 WikiWork factors (?) ω = 3,182 Ω = 4.40

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Thanks. — Headbomb {^ταλκ_{κοντριβς} – WP Physics} 08:49, 15 March, 2009 (UTC)

Requested Move Of Genesis Creation Myth

here Thank you For you time Weaponbb7 (talk) 17:47, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

See the previous section. Why would this project care? tedder (talk) 18:32, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Removal of WPA tag on Christ Myth Theory

Our talkpage consensus on Christ Myth Theory has been to remove the tag, as the article's subject does not pertain to Atheism. If you object to its removal, please post why here. NJMauthor (talk) 04:14, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Atheism vs Nontheism

There has been some question of whether Atheism and Nontheism are distinct entities or should be merged. Please weigh-in here. --Cybercobra (talk) 00:47, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Are they seriously going to merge nontheism with atheism? I am absolutely shocked and amazed. This project should be trying to develop these distinctions, not let them get plowed under. Greg Bard 17:28, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Improve relationships between anti/non-religion/atheism articles?

It looks like there may be some work to do to improve the integration of some related articles:

• Antireligion
• Antitheism
• Atheism
• Criticism of religion.
• Irreligion
• Nontheism

When one reads the articles, it looks they were all written by different editors, without acknowledgment of the other articles. For example: I can imagine a reader, interested in learning about the drawbacks to religion finding Irreligion. The reader may think that that article is the article on atheism or Criticism of religion. It looks like these articles were all written by distinct editors as stand-alone articles, and not much effort has yet been made to link them together to help readers find more information. I'm not suggesting that they be merged (because they are indeed all unique subjects, and the content is accurate and correct) but it looks like work is needed to help the readers jump from one to another. The solution could be as simple as adding footer templates, sidebar templates, SeeAlso lists, "main" templates within sections, and so on (yes, there are some wikilinks between the articles, but they tend to be embedded within sentences).

(By the way: it is not my intention to offend any editors that worked on the above articles: I know how hard it is to get a single article into good shape ... and the task of integrating a set of related articles is an order of magnitude harder: the "herding cats" thing :-)

Here's a specific suggestion: could the "Series on Atheism" sidebar template be extended to include all the above articles? Since some of those articles don't fit within the strict definition of "Atheism" perhaps the scope of the "Series" template could be expanded to

• "Series on atheism and irreligion" or
• "Series on atheism and antireligion" or
• "Series on atheism, antireglion, and related topics"

And then we add that expanded "Series on atheism and antireligion" sidebar template to the above articles that do not yet have it? That seems like it would really help users navigate. --Noleander (talk) 15:45, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

In addition to those

• Religious skepticism (should be either expanded or merged)
• Skepticism#Religious_skepticism
• Militant atheism
• New atheism
• Scientism#Relevance_to_the_science_and_religion_debate
• Agnostic atheism
• Weak and strong atheism
• Implicit atheism
• Apatheism
• Metaphysical naturalism (main article links could be used for some of these sections)
• Atheism and religion
• Faith and rationality

This discussion, however, might be better placed at the WikiProject Atheism Jess ^talk _cs 18:07, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, perhaps I'll move this discussion there. Thanks for the suggestion. [Move was done]. --Noleander (talk) 18:10, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Just to be clear: I understand that there are many who view Atheism in the pure sense of a philosophy, and hence they may object to "diluting" the "Series on Atheism" sidebar with the inclusion of tangential articles. My suggestion should be understood as a simple matter of helping readers (who, we may assume, are not experts in philosophy or theology) to find alternate articles which may be better suited to the research they are doing. --Noleander (talk) 18:16, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Template:Atheism2/PossibleImprovement Following up on the above ideas, here is a sketch of what the sidebar could look like. The additional topics are simply placed at the bottom of the existing Atheism template, using the group title "Related topics" which should make it clear that they do not strictly fall within the definition of Atheism. Any comments? --Noleander (talk) 15:59, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Standardized "ism" templates

I have always wanted to get a standardized format for all the templates about various isms. To this end I usually organize with the following types of sections:

• Academic areas
• Concepts
• Theories
• People
• Literature
• Related

I would very much like to bring into sharper relief the distinction between concepts and theories, as relfected in the category structure. I think all of the above articles could fit wonderfully into such an organization. Greg Bard 16:48, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Good point. The Atheism category is at Category:Atheism, and the articles listed therein are not well represented in the current Atheism sidebar template. The sidebar template does a good job representing the philosophical aspects, but is weaker in the other areas you enumerate. For example, a "People" section could include a few prominent atheists; and the Literature section could include a few famous tracts/books about Athesism. Am I understanding your proposal correctly? --20:20, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

I've added "People" and "Literature" sections to the draft sidebar template (shown at right). Greg's outline above also includes "Theories" and "Academic areas", which would require some careful thought to integrate those into the upper portion of that template. If anyone wants to have a go at it, feel free to edit that draft template directly (click the "e" button at the bottom of the template). --Noleander (talk) 20:31, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

I did make a major change in that direction. Perhaps we should think about a template for the bottom of the page instead like the philosophy templates (logic, ethics, etcetera.Greg Bard 23:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Concur on the footer template idea. I wish WP had a tool set up where we could edit just one file, and the tool would generate both a sidebar template and a footer template from the same source file. Barring that, we can get this draft sidebar template into good shape, then just copy it and manually create a footer template. --Noleander (talk) 23:38, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

A couple of comments on the latest draft:

1) It may be wise to re-arrange the order so the "Theory" section is on top, since most of the articles in the "Theory" section seem more essential to the topic, whereas the "Academic" articles are more "related to".

2) It is a bit long. Maybe the font could be smaller; or turn off the boldface.

--Noleander (talk) 05:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

"Religion", "Science", and "Theology" are much too general for the Academic areas sections. Also, 'People" should probably be "Atheists". --Cybercobra (talk) 08:35, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Agree with the "People" -> "Atheists" so I made that change. --Noleander (talk) 14:15, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps it would be a good time for a trial of this alternate template in the articles? It is far from perfect, but putting it in would get more eyeballs on it, and hence more ideas for improvement. If strong objections ensue, we can always revert to the original. Thoughts? --14:18, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Color theme has insufficient contrast?

The light brown background color (#D2B48C) used in the template is so light, it is hard to read the white words on them. This same color theme is also extensively in the Atheism portal. Anyone else think the color contrast should be stronger? Maybe it is just my computer monitor. Perhaps it would be simplest to just change the overlaid text color from white to black? or to dark brown? Whatever the decision is (if there ends up being any consensus), the same theme should be applied to the Atheism portal, of course. --Noleander (talk) 14:24, 7 June 2010 (UTC)