Talk:Hasan Prishtina

{{WikiProject Former countries|class=Start|importance=|Ottoman=yes|Ottoman-importance=Low}}

Šišković

@ZjarriRrethues: Please don't remove referenced assertion that Hasan Prishitna was Šišković. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 08:06, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Hasan Prishtina has been attested with many names, but they don't include "Hasan Siskovic". I'll remove your OR deduction and I expect you to stick to the sources.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 21:29, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

@ZjarriRrethues:Don't remove cited addition of other users. The source which is used to support Šišković last name of Hasan Priština is written by Ivo Banac, the author whose work you already used in article editing.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 21:34, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Although I've never encountered it anywhere it could be a clan name, but it's not attested anywhere as his actual surname (clan names aren't the same as family names). The actual surname used in sources is Berisha, while there's no Hasan Siskovic. I've already added the source but you reverted me i.e source misrepresentation. Please stick to the sources.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 22:05, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

I already do stick to the source written by Ivo Banac who use Šišković as alternative last name for Hasan. And he is not the only one. Here is my edit by which I actually corrected your misinterpretation of the source written by Miranda Vickers which I added, not you. So your accusation that I reverted you and misinterpreted the source is unjustified. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:11, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

I added Malcolm[1] i.e source misrepresentation on your part. Neither Banac nor Vickers mention any Hasan Siskovic. Vickers says from the powerful clan of Siskovic. Malcolm says Foremost among the deputies from Kosovo was Hasan bey Prishtina (so called because he had been elected to represent Prishtina in 1908;his family name was Berisha).. Clan names attributed to him vary, but the surname was Berisha. His father was Ahmet Berisha Prishtina, Hasan Bey, albanischer Politiker, * Vucitrn (Kosovo) 1873, f (ermordet) Saloniki 14. VIII. 1933, Sohn des Ahmed Berisha, der um 1871 aus dem Dorf Poljance in Drenica nach Vucitrn übersiedelte. Among others you can find the surname in Elsie's website Hasan bey Prishtina (1873-1933) was born in Vushtrria (Kosovo) and attended a French secondary school in Thessalonika and a college of administration in Istanbul. His actual name is Hasan Berisha..--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 22:31, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, my mistake. You added Malcolm without a quote, after Miranda Vickers and after member of Ottoman Parliament assertion twice so I did not notice you used it to support Berisha alternative family name which I will return.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:54, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes Hasan Prishtina obviously have origins in Poljanice. He also had blood-relatives there - Veljić brothers. Муслимани наше крви у Јужној Србији" written by Јован Хаџи Васиљевић says "У селу Пољанцу постоје браћа Вељићи, крвни сродник им је Хасан бег Вучитрнац, Шишковић." I will translate it for you: Veljić brothers from Poljance are related to Hasan-bey of Vučitrn, Šišković. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 23:03, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

There are more sources which support the claim that Hasan was Šišković: East Central European society and the Balkan wars by Béla K. Király, Dimitrije Djordjevíc, Brooklyn College. Program on Society in Change: "The committee was headed by Hasan-Prishtina from the well-known feudal house of Siskovic in VuSitrn," --Antidiskriminator (talk) 23:08, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

In the sources his name appears as Hasan Prishtina or Hasan bey Prishtina his original name was Hasan Berisha. The name Hasan Berisha appears in his school records in Istanbul. He changed his surname to Prishtina when he was elected in Ottoman Parliament in 1908 (see German language sources):

1. "Hasan bey Prishtina, originally known as Hasan Berisha..."Historical Dictionary of Kosovo Volume 79 of Historical Dictionaries of Europe G - Reference, Information and Interdisciplinary Subjects Series Volume 79 of European historical dictionaries Author Robert Elsie Edition 2, illustrated Publisher Scarecrow Press, 2010 ISBN 0810872315, 9780810872318 page 223-224
2. "Hasan Bey Prishtina (ursprünglich Hasan Berisha) (Geboren 1873 in Vushtrii/Kosovo – 1933 in Thessaloniki) Aus einer Großgrundbesitzerfamilie stammend, studierte Hasan Berisha in Istanbul Jura... im ersten Parlament des Osmanischen Reiches und namh den namen "Prishtina" .. und fuhrte den titel bey...(Hasan Bey Prishtina (originally Hasan Berisha) (Born in 1873 in Vushtrii / Kosovo - 1933 in Thessaloniki) Born into a landowning family, studied law in Istanbul as Hasan Berisha. In 1908 he was a deputy in the first parliament of the Ottoman Empire and took the name "Prishtina" ..and the title bey)" KOSOVO Informieren-Reisen-Erinnern Author Susanne Dell Editor Susanne Dell Publisher BoD – Books on Demand, 2010 ISBN 3839191793, 9783839191798 page 113-114
3. "Prishtina, Hasan Bey, albanischer Politiker, * Vucitrn (Kosovo) 1873, f (ermordet) Saloniki 14. VIII. 1933, Sohn des Ahmed Berisha, der um 1871 aus dem Dorf Poljance in Drenica nach Vucitrn übersiedelte, ..Im Dezember 1908 wurde P. als Abgeordneter Pristinas ins turkischeParlament gewahlt; das war auch der zeitpunkt, wo er seinen Familiennamen in Prishtina.... (Prishtina, Hasan Bey, the Albanian politicians, * Vucitrn (Kosovo) 1873, f (assassinated) Salonika 14th VIII, 1933, son of Ahmed Berisha, who around 1871 moved from the village poljance in Drenica to Vucitrn ... In December 1908, p chosen as a Pristina delegate to the turkish Parlament, which was also the time when he changed his family name in Prishtina ....)" Biographisches Lexikon zur Geschichte Südosteuropas, Volume 3 Volume 75 of Südosteuropäische Arbeiten Biographisches Lexikon zur Geschichte Südosteuropas, Felix von Schroeder Editors Mathias Bernath, Felix von Schroeder Publisher Oldenbourg Verlag, 1979 ISBN 3486489917, 9783486489910 page 485-468
4. "Foremost among the deputies from Kosovo was Hasan bey Prishtina (so called because he had been elected to represent Prishtina in 1908; his family name was Berisha). He had studied at the French lycee in Salonica and had originally ..." Kosovo: a short history Author Noel Malcolm Edition illustrated, reprint Publisher Macmillan, 1998 ISBN 0333666127, 9780333666128 page 245

His original name Hasan Berisha and most known name Hasan bey Prishtina are well known and documented. Everything else is in WP:Fringe area Aigest (talk) 08:27, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes there are sources which say that his last name was Berisha. Nobody denied that. There are also reliable sources which say that he was from well known fedual house of Šišković. Sources which are written by contemporary historians and frequently cited on wikipedia and in other scholarly works. Don't remove them and don't label them as WP:Fringe unless you can provide link to RSN wiht consensus which support your fringe thesis.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 09:52, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

His last name was Berisha, this is the name he was registered in school, not "there are sources which say that his last name was Berisha".

1. Hasan Prishtina google hits about 185,000 results
2. "Hasan Berisha" 1873 google hits About 904 results
3. Hasan Siskovic google hits No results found for "hasan siskovic".
4. "Siskovic clan" google hits 2 results of which 1 is this wiki article
5. "Siskovic feudal" google hits no results
6. "Siskovic feudal house" google hits no results
7. "Siskovic house" google hits no results

It is clear that this Sickovic clan or feudal house (so powerful and famous clan that gets just one google hit) is something of a fancy tale and furthermore the relation between Hasan Prishtina and Siskovic is in WP:FRINGE area and not the viceversa. The only source is Ivo Banac (whose topic was not on Hasan Prishtina himself) and the same thing is repeated form Vickers based on Banac being the original source. None of the authors discuss the matter in details, they just make a short statement (Banac original and Vickers copying him) and "the original" Banac does not show where did he get such info, while in the same time google hits and the other authors (who practically give explicit details and make a short biography of Hasan Prishtina (Berisha)) show which is the consensus on the case.

"What is more, just because a quote is accurate and verifiably attributed to a particular source does not mean that the quote must necessarily be included in an article" See Sourcing and attributtion and remember that "Exceptional claims require exceptional sources". Bring the exceptional sources forward and we will move forward. Up to then it is WP:Fringe is out of this article. Aigest (talk) 19:10, 16 April 2012 (UTC)