User talk:Agent00f

A belated welcome!

Sorry for the belated welcome, but the cookies are still warm!

Here's wishing you a belated welcome to Wikipedia, Agent00f. I see that you've already been around a while and wanted to thank you for your contributions. Though you seem to have been successful in finding your way around, you may benefit from following some of the links below, which help editors get the most out of Wikipedia:

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Again, welcome! Hasteur (talk) 11:46, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

April 2012

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, we would ask that you assume good faith while interacting with other editors. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Hasteur (talk) 11:46, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome. I've contributed before to a few technical pages a different username and sometimes anonymously from work, but it's always nice to be invited by another and I will try to reciprocate.

Woah... you might want to explicitly declare the link between the accounts via Wikipedia:SOCK#NOTIFY for the different username as having multiple accounts for any reason except for a few very documented reasons is not allowed. Contributing via a IP is not explicitly prohibited, but make sure to stay away from the same discussions so as to not present the appearance of attempting to change the consensus with multiple accounts. Hasteur (talk) 12:51, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

I can't remember what my prior account was named (apparently not the handle I commonly use) and have long lost use of email address it was listed under anyway. That's why I registered a new account in first place.

May 2012

Please assume good faith in your dealings with other editors. Assume that they are here to improve rather than harm Wikipedia. Newmanoconnor (talk) 21:13, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

I have no idea what you're specifically referring to. I'm guessing it has something to do with claiming that either someone doesn't consider in the user experience, or someone only thinks in terms of bureaucratic rules. Both are provably true statements, and therefore not an assumption. Also, while both approach may have the side effect of ruining wiki, I've never said that was their intent. Agent00f (talk) 01:40, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

See your plethora of comments on WP:MMANOT talk page. Yes you have been calm and somewhat reasoned on some posts, but at this point, and for the majority of posts, you aren't doing anything but being disruptive and making accusations about people on personal missions, being bureaucrats, questioning their integrity and intelligence. You aren't helping anything. Why don't you spend some of this energy finding sources to prove why a single UFC event of your choosing is notable enough for a single article.Newmanoconnor (talk) 03:15, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Please be specific instead of using vague accusations. It's quite unfair if I'm not able to defend myself due to what I'm currently assuming is unintentional ambiguity. Everything I've said is well measured and backed by clear and indisputable evidence. For example, I have labeled this as a dispute between bureaucrats and user advocates: these are carefully chosen descriptive words derived from folks' descriptions of their own decision making process. If you have a problem with bureaucracy, please take it up with people who describe themselves as such, not the observer. As another example, it's trivial logic that the same set of information re-organized in a confusing format to get around the letter of the rules is not a "better" design in any conceivable way, therefore it's clearly insulting to tell users that it stands on its merits while trying to force them to take that blatant falsehood in good faith. Again, I see the problem as the action, not the observation.

As for the time I've spent forming numerous clear and rational arguments, that was only because I started out assuming that folks who claimed that "logical and rational" arguments would be taken into account were acting in good faith. Now we both know this was never going to be the case, so I'm not sure why you're puzzled how things turned out. Agent00f (talk) 03:35, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Final Warning regarding disruptive editing and lack of good faith assumptions

This is your final warning. Stop Filibustering, posting long diatribes regarding the unfairness, bureaucracy of wikipedia, entire arguments that the status quo for MMA articles "doesn't hurt anything", and deliberately attempting to derail the consensus process. The next posting you make on WT:MMANOT that strays into any of these realms, I will open a filing on the Administrator's Noticeboard asking for an outside Administrator to evaluate your posts in the context of "building a collaborative encyclopedia" to determine if sanctions (up to and including Topic banning you from all MMA related articles,blocking you from editing any wikipedia article,or banning you from the site entirely). This is not a threat, I am simply illuminating what the next step will be in the process. You've been warned my me, by other editors, and by an admin who is somewhat involved in the discussion. Please consider modifying your behavior as it is currently unacceptable. Hasteur (talk) 11:47, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

So, is it the policy of wiki for editors to continuously make arbitrary accusations without evidence? I've asked for substantiation of any of these charges, but none has been forthcoming, so I'm puzzled as to why you believe them to be true. It's also notable that list of "banned by Hasteur" topics is currently what's under discussion at the MMA omnibus page, so the request is to essentially voluntarily ban myself from the conversation, or else. Look, I don't doubt that you have more pull with perhaps some other insiders that you've come to know in the past, but please consider how this kind of behavior reflects on your peers when one party to a "consensus" takes to threats to prevent the other side from participating. Agent00f (talk) 12:21, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Administrators' noticeboard

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. | pulmonological ^{talk • contribs} 17:14, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. Regarding your edits to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mixed martial arts/MMA notability, it is recommended that you use the preview button before you save; this helps you find any errors you have made, reduces edit conflicts, and prevents clogging up recent changes and the page history. Thank you. TreyGeek (talk) 17:11, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, this is a bad habit of mine. I'm usually doing something else when I use the interwebs, but I'll try to keep this in mind. Agent00f (talk) 17:14, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

		The Original Barnstar
		Thank you for your great work.

MMA Space

I'm certainly willing to contribute regularly and heavily to any of the following: Individual pages, omnibuses, pre-existing indexes and proposed indexes. What I'm more reluctant to contribute to is the notability guidelines. If you continue putting together intelligent proposals, I will continue to support them. The real issue with contributing right now, is the deletionist horde operating in that space, who are intent on getting us to put work in, which they will then nominate for deletion. I really don't want to edit articles with people standing behind me just waiting for me to finish, so they can blank the work. Sunny Sundae Smile (talk) 13:01, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

I can't promising anything, but I think you'll like the ideas that are coming.... Hope you at least retain interest until Monday. :) Agent00f (talk) 01:11, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Notice

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is User:Agent00f. Thank you. Mtking ^(edits) 04:53, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is invited to contribute, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mixed martial arts/MMA notability, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use your sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and read the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Thank you.
The purpose of talk pages is for discussion on how to improve articles, not for "revolutionary" announcements. If you wish to make such comments, your user talk page is an appropriate place. If you wish to directly discuss MMA notability guidelines, recent proposals, and/or your own MMA notability guidelines, that is welcome at WT:MMANOT. TreyGeek (talk) 04:55, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mixed martial arts/MMA notability. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware, Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts.
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. Mtking ^(edits) 04:56, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Agent00f. You have new messages at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:Agent00f reported by Mtking (Result: )|Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring]].
Message added 07:28, 5 May 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Mtking ^(edits) 07:28, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the self revert, I will withdraw the 3RR if you undertake at WP:3RR/N not to redo edit later. Mtking ^(edits) 07:59, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

The obvious subterfuge of this offer demonstrates that the message of the text was perceived to be a grave threat. Make no mistake, it was designed to be. Your 3RR threat is meaningless and I couldn't care less. Agent00f (talk) 09:52, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Notice

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Call for sanctions. Thank you. Hasteur (talk) 00:05, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Stop any more MMA deletions =

I have made a formal request at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents to ban Newmanoconnor, Mtking and TreyGeek banned from deleteing more MMA pages, any help would be good

ScottMMA — Preceding unsigned comment added by ScottMMA (talk • contribs) 03:54, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Agent00f. You have new messages at PolicyReformer's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

--Policy Reformer(c) 09:50, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Blocked

Please take a few days off. Your participation in those MMA debates has long become nonconstructive, and your recent incessant, aggressive filibustering, mixed with personal attacks (most recent edit: [1], plus previous similar ones) is really no longer acceptable. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:08, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

This sanction only validates the observation that wiki rules are trivially gamed by the likes of Mtking, while earnest users who try to point out systemic shortcomings are punished. The MMA Notability debate has been nonconstructive for months and will continue to be unless something is changed, yet an attempt at restarting it sans the common denominator of past failures is being blocked. This AN has been like a parody of what's been going on there: substantive contributors driven off while the petty bureaucrats reign. Agent00f (talk) 12:35, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

PS, did someone forget to edit the policies page? I just checked and FORUMSHOP and ADMINSHOP are still listed as violations rather than encouraged for efficacy. Agent00f (talk) 12:47, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Unblock Request

This user is asking that their block be reviewed:

Agent00f (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

---

Request reason:

The block only refers broadly to "filibustering", and "personal attacks" while failing to provide any actual reasoning to relate these accusations to my comments other than they're "unacceptable". The substantive content in question only state directly observable facts of the case, since admin decisions need to be based on a complete understanding of facts. It was entirely appropriate to be detailed and verbose to avoid yet more frivolous AN's in the future given this one was only the latest in a string against me. The blocking reason seems functionally equivalent to WP:TLDR, which AFAICT doesn't exist.

Substantiation according to WP:GAB,

1. Admit to it.. It would help if what specifically I need to admit to. Contributing substantive and complete arguments is in the spirit of both wiki and debate in general. Contributing directly observable facts, even if the list is long, is also not against the rules. For example, in a DUI case, iterating prior DUI's and other factual events that relate to personal responsibility are entirely relevant, even if they reflect badly.
2. Make people trust you again. It's not obvious why there's distrust in the first place, unless there's an inherently distrust of substantial assertions.
3. Tell us why you are here. There's a given affair on wiki that's persisted for many months despite multiple attempts at resolution. I'm trying to propose a smarter process which still involves all parties and bypasses the former obstacles. The block was a circumstantial side-effect (not the closure) of an AN involving this affair. Agent00f (talk) 03:04, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

I guess you missed the part of GAB called NOTTHEM. Read that, then try again. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 02:41, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Again. Agent00f (talk) 03:04, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Notes:

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If you ask the blocking administrator to comment on this request, replace this template with the following, replacing "blocking administrator" with the name of the blocking admin:

{{Unblock on hold |1=blocking administrator |2=The block only refers broadly to "filibustering", and "personal attacks" while failing to provide any actual reasoning to relate these accusations to my comments other than they're "unacceptable". The substantive content in question only state directly observable facts of the case, since admin decisions need to be based on a complete understanding of facts. It was entirely appropriate to be detailed and verbose to avoid yet more frivolous AN's in the future given this one was only the latest in a string against me. The blocking reason seems functionally equivalent to WP:TLDR, which AFAICT doesn't exist. Substantiation according to WP:GAB, #'''Admit to it.'''. It would help if what specifically I need to admit to. Contributing substantive and complete arguments is in the spirit of both wiki and debate in general. Contributing directly observable facts, even if the list is long, is also not against the rules. For example, in a DUI case, iterating prior DUI's and other factual events that relate to personal responsibility are entirely relevant, even if they reflect badly. #'''Make people trust you again'''. It's not obvious why there's distrust in the first place, unless there's an inherently distrust of substantial assertions. #'''Tell us why you are here. ''' There's a given affair on wiki that's persisted for many months despite multiple attempts at resolution. I'm trying to propose a smarter process which still involves all parties and bypasses the former obstacles. The block was a circumstantial side-effect (not the closure) of an AN involving this affair. [[User:Agent00f|Agent00f]] ([[User talk:Agent00f#top|talk]]) 03:04, 9 May 2012 (UTC) I guess you missed the part of GAB called [[WP:NOTTHEM|NOTTHEM]]. Read that, then try again. [[User:The Blade of the Northern Lights|The Blade of the Northern Lights]] ([[User talk:The Blade of the Northern Lights|<font face="MS Mincho" color="black">話して下さい</font>]]) 02:41, 9 May 2012 (UTC) :Again. [[User:Agent00f|Agent00f]] ([[User talk:Agent00f#top|talk]]) 03:04, 9 May 2012 (UTC) |3 = ~~~~}}

If you decline the unblock request, replace this template with the following code, substituting {{subst:Decline reason here}} with a specific rationale. Leaving the decline reason unchanged will result in display of a default reason, explaining why the request was declined.

{{unblock reviewed |1=The block only refers broadly to "filibustering", and "personal attacks" while failing to provide any actual reasoning to relate these accusations to my comments other than they're "unacceptable". The substantive content in question only state directly observable facts of the case, since admin decisions need to be based on a complete understanding of facts. It was entirely appropriate to be detailed and verbose to avoid yet more frivolous AN's in the future given this one was only the latest in a string against me. The blocking reason seems functionally equivalent to WP:TLDR, which AFAICT doesn't exist. Substantiation according to WP:GAB, #'''Admit to it.'''. It would help if what specifically I need to admit to. Contributing substantive and complete arguments is in the spirit of both wiki and debate in general. Contributing directly observable facts, even if the list is long, is also not against the rules. For example, in a DUI case, iterating prior DUI's and other factual events that relate to personal responsibility are entirely relevant, even if they reflect badly. #'''Make people trust you again'''. It's not obvious why there's distrust in the first place, unless there's an inherently distrust of substantial assertions. #'''Tell us why you are here. ''' There's a given affair on wiki that's persisted for many months despite multiple attempts at resolution. I'm trying to propose a smarter process which still involves all parties and bypasses the former obstacles. The block was a circumstantial side-effect (not the closure) of an AN involving this affair. [[User:Agent00f|Agent00f]] ([[User talk:Agent00f#top|talk]]) 03:04, 9 May 2012 (UTC) I guess you missed the part of GAB called [[WP:NOTTHEM|NOTTHEM]]. Read that, then try again. [[User:The Blade of the Northern Lights|The Blade of the Northern Lights]] ([[User talk:The Blade of the Northern Lights|<font face="MS Mincho" color="black">話して下さい</font>]]) 02:41, 9 May 2012 (UTC) :Again. [[User:Agent00f|Agent00f]] ([[User talk:Agent00f#top|talk]]) 03:04, 9 May 2012 (UTC) |decline = {{subst:Decline reason here}} ~~~~}}

If you accept the unblock request, replace this template with the following, substituting Accept reason here with your rationale:

{{unblock reviewed |1=The block only refers broadly to "filibustering", and "personal attacks" while failing to provide any actual reasoning to relate these accusations to my comments other than they're "unacceptable". The substantive content in question only state directly observable facts of the case, since admin decisions need to be based on a complete understanding of facts. It was entirely appropriate to be detailed and verbose to avoid yet more frivolous AN's in the future given this one was only the latest in a string against me. The blocking reason seems functionally equivalent to WP:TLDR, which AFAICT doesn't exist. Substantiation according to WP:GAB, #'''Admit to it.'''. It would help if what specifically I need to admit to. Contributing substantive and complete arguments is in the spirit of both wiki and debate in general. Contributing directly observable facts, even if the list is long, is also not against the rules. For example, in a DUI case, iterating prior DUI's and other factual events that relate to personal responsibility are entirely relevant, even if they reflect badly. #'''Make people trust you again'''. It's not obvious why there's distrust in the first place, unless there's an inherently distrust of substantial assertions. #'''Tell us why you are here. ''' There's a given affair on wiki that's persisted for many months despite multiple attempts at resolution. I'm trying to propose a smarter process which still involves all parties and bypasses the former obstacles. The block was a circumstantial side-effect (not the closure) of an AN involving this affair. [[User:Agent00f|Agent00f]] ([[User talk:Agent00f#top|talk]]) 03:04, 9 May 2012 (UTC) I guess you missed the part of GAB called [[WP:NOTTHEM|NOTTHEM]]. Read that, then try again. [[User:The Blade of the Northern Lights|The Blade of the Northern Lights]] ([[User talk:The Blade of the Northern Lights|<font face="MS Mincho" color="black">話して下さい</font>]]) 02:41, 9 May 2012 (UTC) :Again. [[User:Agent00f|Agent00f]] ([[User talk:Agent00f#top|talk]]) 03:04, 9 May 2012 (UTC) |accept = accept reason here ~~~~}}

Um, did you put subst: in front of this? It makes your unblock request unusable. Of course, so does your request ... please see WP:GAB, WP:TE and WP:DISRUPT, then maybe delete the unblock and try again. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 23:35, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion, but it's best if uninvolved editors take this request. Substantiation of claims is also welcome as always. Also please do not assume unfamiliarity with formal academic standards of logic. Agent00f (talk) 23:46, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry case

Your name has been mentioned in connection with a sockpuppetry case. Please refer to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Agent00f for evidence. Please make sure you make yourself familiar with the guide to responding to cases before editing the evidence page. Newmanoconnor (talk) 22:20, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for continuing to validate the claims of WP:HARASSMENT terrorism by the MMA AfD clique targeting any dissent. No doubt 86.149.148.121 is hesitant to sign up since we all know that happens to people who speak out. I'll add this to the mountain of supporting evidence against the clique in only the latest of frivolous AN's SPI's against me. Agent00f (talk) 22:49, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

It's not harassment, it's genuine concern that you were evading a block. It's nothing to freak out over. FYI Hasteur came to your defense. I don't have any way to check a named accounts IP's, but apparently the suspicious one is from the UK, and Hasteur believes you are from the US...Or knows it. Not sure which.Newmanoconnor (talk) 00:15, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

That's just more of the tactic that this same group has been using against anyone who dares dissent against their historic string of failures (over many months) to reach any kind of lasting resolution on this topic. I've only joined for about a week or two and the trash above from them on my talk page is but a small sample of their general strategy and pattern of harassment, intimidation, and subterfuge. No assumptions are necessary here when the evidence is so clear. Agent00f (talk) 00:23, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

So because the accusation was made for any reason you're going to strike out at anybody? Ok, my good faith extensions (Defending you on the SPI, asking that discussions be held up until you're unblocked) are over with. I tried to extend a olive branch after being counseled privately that I was coming across as a bit of a dick. I look forward to our mutually beneficial collaboration once you're unblocked. Hasteur (talk) 00:34, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

We're talking about the pattern of harassment exhibited by the exact same predicable parties against anyone who do not accept that they're the authoritative voice of the disccusion. Simply look at the massive influx of junk above by the same few people, look at their history of action (including torrents of AfD's while discussions are ongoing) against MMA contributors/users, and lack of any substantiation once they're called out. If someone else has better words to describe this, the floor is open to them. Agent00f (talk) 00:51, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Agent00f, I'm sorry this made you feel that way,it certainly was not my intention,which is why i struck the above and in the SPI said i would defer to the other guys on this matter,who both said it wasnt you.Newmanoconnor (talk) 01:39, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

This isn't about how I "feel", but rather the fact of the case. "We'll stop harassing you if you stop dissenting" is not evidence that harassment did not occur. This systematic pattern of harassment has the effect of discouraging participation from other voices, regardless of intent. The only way to demonstrate otherwise is to cease this category of actions altogether, including MtKing who is the presiding pinnacle of such behavior. Agent00f (talk) 01:46, 9 May 2012 (UTC)