Talk:Heinrich Heine

His mother? Prussian?

Where the hell did you come with that from? His mother couldnt be Prussian, because if she was, then he couldnt be a Jew. He was born Jewish, then his mother was Jewish. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.69.57.179 (talk) 16:37, 13 May 2007 (UTC).

Ethnicity is passed through both parents, not just the mother. CommanderJamesBond (talk) 03:28, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Futhermore Prussian isn't an enthicity at all. It's just a nationality. There were Saxonian Prussians, Brandenburgian Prussians, Pommeranian Prussians (you can refer to those three as German Prussians, too), Polish Prussians, Jewish Prussians, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.172.48.137 (talk) 13:29, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

This conversation has been rendered obsolete by the revised article. Düsseldorf did not become part of Prussia until 1815. Heine's mother was born in 1771. She was not Prussian but "Bergish". --Paul Marston (talk) 13:37, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Really born "Chaim"?

The new translation of Ludwig Börne (ed. Jeffrey L. Sammons, Camden House, 2006) says (p. 13 n. 42, "There was an old rumor, propagated particularly by anti-Semites, that Heine's Jewish name was Chaim, but there is no evidence for it." If no one can point to a recent reliable source that confronts this, the claim should be removed from the article. Wareh 20:21, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Marx: Friend or acquaintance?

Wac Karl Marx a friend of Heine or an acquaintance? Heine was very critical of communists, saying that though their language is different, their goal is the very same absolutism he always opposed. 75.84.113.125 (talk) 21:47, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Epitaph

The article claimed that Heine had the following (tacky, doggerel) couplet engraved on his tombstone:

Hier liegen meine gebeine -- 

Wenn wären sie nur deine! 

Heine. 

("Here lie my bones -- if only they were yours! Heine." ) While I don't know whether Heine penned that verse or not, I do know they are nowhere near his tombstone. There are some excellent photographs of the grave here. There is a poem engraved, a much finer lyric that begins:

Wo wird einst des Wandermuden 

Letzte Ruhestatte sein? ... 

(Where will the tired wanderer's / last resting place be?), etc. So I deleted what appears to be a myth from the article. Unfortunately, it is one that might have taken firmer renewed life due to a long sojourn on this article. Best, Eliezg (talk) 22:42, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Mea culpa, "I have been Foolish and Deluded". Thank you and best wishes, --HTO (talk) 22:53, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Loreley

in the german wikipedia it says the this poem was written in 1824. can anyone confirm this? Sundar1 (talk) 05:29, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Important Missing Information - Treatment of the Lorelei by the Nazi's (National Socialists)

The works of Jewish poets was banned by the National Socialists. However, the Lorelei was so famous and part of German life, that is was hopeless to erase it from German life. Thus, when die Lorelei was sung as set to music or written, it was ascribed to "an unknown German poet". First Stanza: "Ich weiss nicht was soll es bedeuten dass ich so traurig bin Ein Maerchen aus alten Zeiten Es geht mir nicht aus dem Sinn" Set to music by a well-known composer.

Hez (talk) 22:44, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, that's a famous anecdote. The trouble is, as far as I know, nobody has yet been able to verify its authenticity. The German Wikipedia article on "Loreley" says: "Von Walter Arthur Berendsohn und Theodor W. Adorno stammt die – bis heute jedoch unbelegte – Behauptung, dass das Lied so populär war, dass es selbst die Nationalsozialisten im Dritten Reich nicht gewagt hätten, es aus den Lyrik-Anthologien zu entfernen, obwohl Heinrich Heine als Jude zu den Dichtern gehörte, deren Werke verboten und verbrannt wurden. Seine Urheberschaft sei jedoch unterschlagen und stattdessen meistens „von einem unbekannten deutschen Dichter“ oder ähnliches angegeben worden." Paul Marston (talk) 09:21, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Hegel's hard-to-gauge influence

Hegel's influence on Heine is very tentatively stated. The inclusion of the image of Hegel giving a lecture makes it seem as though he was obviously a strong influence. According to the article, "Most important was the philosopher Hegel, whose influence on Heine is hard to gauge. He probably gave Heine and other young students the idea that history had a meaning which could be seen as progressive." Did Heine believe in Hegelian historical progress? As a matter of fact, the article quotes Heine as dreading the future when the Communists are in power. Heine wrote, "I can foresee all this and I feel deeply sorry thinking of this decline threatening my poetry and the old world order." The whole sentence on the influence of a progressive Hegelian meaning to history is not very informative. It almost sounds vacuous.Lestrade (talk) 19:57, 2 February 2012 (UTC)Lestrade

Maybe you should try to fix it then. As Sammons says, the question of Hegel's influence on Heine is extremely confused (just like everything else to do with Hegel IMHO). Also, the young Heine is not the same as the old Heine. I'm not any kind of Hegelian and, frankly, I don't know what Heine saw in him. At least he didn't attempt to copy Hegel's prose style. If you think the picture gives undue weight to Hegel's influence on Heine, then go ahead and remove it. On the other hand, it might be viewed as an illustration of Berlin intellectual life in the 1820s. Paul Marston (talk) 11:38, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Continental System, effect on Berg

Napoleon's Continental System is quite a large, and complicated topic. Another user has inserted a couple of off-hand references to its effect on Heine's native city of Berg, but without proving much context or explanation. I thought I might correct the language to make it sound less partisan, but he reverted me. So I thought I might just use a direct quote that the user volunteered, but then he reverted me again.

My contention is that, the way in which the CS effected the city of Berg is of course relevant to this article - but the CS as a whole and its effect on Europe isn't. Because that is a subject that has been debated for hundreds of years, and deserves more than just off-hand yet difinitive characterizations. LiamFitzGilbert (talk) 08:57, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Continental System etc

I do not understand the objection to the mention of the Continental System. The information is taken from Jeffrey Sammons' biography of Heinrich Heine. The whole Wikipedia section is a summary of Sammon's chapter, "The World of Heine's Boyhood". It's there because it caused a major economic depression in Berg. Napoleon was asked to ease the situation but he refused. This changed the attitude of most residents toward French sovereignty, but not Heine's.

At the time of Heine's birth the Duchy of Juelich-Berg was "under French occupation" (Sammons' exact words) and would remain so until the Treaty of Lunéville in 1801 (Sammons, p.30). It only became a client state under Napoleon. Paul Marston (talk) 09:08, 19 August 2012 (UTC)