Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case

Requests for arbitration

Arbitration Committee proceedings

• recent changes
• purge this page
• view or discuss this template

Case requests

Request name	Motions	Initiated	Votes
Chelsea Manning		31 August 2013	{{{votes}}}

[edit]

Open cases

Case name	Links	Evidence due	Prop. Dec. due
Backlash to diversity and inclusion	(t) (ev / t) (ws / t) (pd / t)	10 Oct 2024	24 Oct 2024

[edit]

Recently closed cases (Past cases)

No cases have recently been closed (view all closed cases).

Clarification and Amendment requests

Request name	Motions	Case	Posted
Amendment request: Palestine-Israel articles (AE referral)	Motion	(orig. case)	17 August 2024
Arbitration enforcement referral: Nableezy, et al	none	(orig. case)	7 November 2024
Clarification request: Referrals from Arbitration Enforcement noticeboard to the full Committee	none	none	7 November 2024

Arbitrator motions

No arbitrator motions are currently open.

Chelsea Manning

Initiated by v/r - TP at 19:13, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Involved parties

• TParis (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), filing party
• Josh Gorand (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• David Gerard (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
• Tariqabjotu (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
• Baseball Bugs (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• LudicrousTripe (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Phil Sandifer (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Morwen (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

• [1]
• [2]
• [3]
• [4]
• [5]

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

• Jimbo
• ANI
• Josh Gorand's talk page

Statement by TParis

Arbcom authority

Per the Arbcom policy scope item #1, "To act as a final binding decision-maker primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve," I believe this case is suitable for Arbcom because these threads have failed to be closed by outside administrators. Either administrators are apathetic, involved, scared, or disagree with the general items it seems.

Disclaimer

I have chosen based on my own morals to refer to the person and article both by Chelsea Manning with female gender pronouns. This is not a statement on the close by the three uninvolved administrators who closed the move request.

Statement of dispute

As many know, on August 22, 2013, Chelsea Manning announced that she was transgender and would like to be called Chelsea. The article, formerly and now again titled Bradley Manning, was moved and move-protected at the title Chelsea Manning and a move request ensued. The discussion had a wide range of comments, most were professional and appropriate. However, there was some anti-transgender language as well as a backlash of accusations from transgender supporters. The Arbcom case as I am filing is focused on the behaviors of the discussion and not the admin actions preceding nor the close of the uninvolved admins afterward; however, I do not pretend to limit the scope and others may chose to address either, I suspect.

Comments which can appear to be Anti-transgender

These were comments compiled by Phil Sandifer (talk · contribs) as transphobic:

Extended content

Wikipedia is "The Free Encyclopedia", not a site designed to protect people's "feelings". This sort of activist stupidity is bringing WP into disrepute. WP:NOTSOAPBOX. WP:COMMONNAME. How it has gone this far the wrong direction is a little shocking. If there is transgender surgery and a legal name change, then the article should change Bradley Manning still dresses as a man (wears the male military dress uniform,) and is still legally known (in name and otherwise) to the U.S. Army as Bradley - a male. Changing the name to Chelsea should not occur before hormone therapy has even begun (it it ever even will occur) or before a legal name change. I also support reverting all of the pronouns to "he." He is clearly mentally unstable and his latest remarks and desire to be called Chelsea should not be regarded with any merit until the words are matched by some serious and tangible action. So far Manning has not underwent sex reassignment surgery, as such his personal preferences do not hold reasonable encyclopedic or common sense weight. No matter how many sources will refer to him as "she", biologically he's still a man. Accordingly, "she" should be reverted to "he" in the article for the time being. Support Strongly as there is no biological or legal rationale to refer to Manning as anything but male. If that ever changes, then change the page accordingly. per Rannpháirtí anaithnid, common sense, and general opposition to the use of Wikipedia as a platform for radical political advocacy (which advocacy is the sole reason Manning's article keeps being mangled to describe him as Anything-But-Male. I am aware of MOS:IDENTITY, and it is wrong. The standard a polite person might adopt for brief conversation is not the standard to use for encyclopedic coverage One does not become female just by saying one wants to be. If he (not she) said he wanted to be black now, would you describe him as African-American?? Wikipedia should follow the lead of external sources and wait until the majority of the media decides he has changed his gender. This move was incredibly premature, and seems to be done only to please the social justice warriors. Wikipedia is supposed to be a neutral source, not a forum to push your gender politics. The subject is still male in every meaningful sense As a political statement against wikipedia's identity policy and the idea that a person can demand which pronoun another person uses. I think a fair statement in society is that we'll tolerate you doing what you want in terms of body modification and unusual sexual practices, and in exchange you can tolerate our freedom to use language as we please, and not try to enforce political correctness and thought crime. No matter what he says, he is still himself. While I think there's nothing wrong with being transgender, the level of activism here that has nothing to do with Manning makes me want to vomit. Please take your struggle for recognition elsewhere not only under NPOV, but further I think the politicization and ridiculous PC attitude on this website do a disservice to people hoping to get factual information. The fact is, this is a guy, legally and biologically, who has a male name legally. He is a woman only in his own head, and the collective imagination of the radical left. If I had a Wikipedia article and then I suddenly claimed to be a dog, or a cat, would they change it to reflect such a non-sense? Biologically he is a man and will die a man (check his chromosomes XY), and legally he is a man (he even asks to be called by his male name in official stuff). It is stupid to change the wikipedia article... this deserves, at most, a brief section. Wikipedia is about FACTS not gay-lobby propaganda. Wikipedia is not a soap-box for trans people to play with, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia that should value quality over political correctness ten times out of ten. Coming into the page and seeing "her" and "she" all over the place while the picture is of a young soldier is laughable, and unthinkable in a Wikipedia just a short year ago. "I am a girl, call me Chelsea" is the worst move rational I've heard in a while. This page is currently laughable and embarrassing. I think some people need to settle down. He's still a man, and he's still named Bradley legally speaking. Just because (s)he has shouted to be known by some other name does not actually mean that (s)he is actually a transgender. Had (s)he been more vocal at an opportune time, (s)he might have saved the world of some idiotic espionage in recent history. Why are we wasting time and making a mockery of this article by trying to 'comfort' Bradley Manning or 'make this transition easier on him?' Where he's going, the last worry he'll have is the pronouns they use to address him. And this is just beside all of the basic logic and reasoning that says he is a male, has always been a male, and likely always will continue to be a male and the WP has just bought into one of the lamest PR stunts in recent memory. Has everybody opposed to this moved forgotten that he is a criminal??? this individual is morphologically, chromosomally, and most important legally still male. He's still got the chromosomes, package and legal name of a guy and no ammount of critical queer/feminist/gender analysis will get around those three simple truths. "Chelsea" should barely be a footnote. "Chelsea Mannning" does not exist.

Josh Gorand

Josh Gorand appears to be to be the most prolific exhibitor of battleground behavior and has propagated the most personal attacks; though he was very careful not to name specific people in his attacks.

Baseball Bugs

Baseball bugs comments have been inflammatory and battlegroundish. At times he's spent days repeating the same insistence that the two original admins that moved the page are to blame for the whole mess. Here are some of his remarks:

• "Everyone who supports moving the page to "Chelsea" is abusing wikipedia."
• "The advocates, the zealots don't care. They're using it as an excuse to justify pushing their point of view
• "Manning is a convicted criminal, and I couldn't care less about him/her/it"
• "There is no BLP issue. You're abusing Wikipedia." (Changed in the next edit to "The promoters of this nonsense are abusing...")

LudicrousTripe

Another user who used broad statements and accusations repeatedly.

• "thanks to a majority vote packed with people so ignorant they had no concept of the term identity, or so antediluvian and morally corrupt they may as well not have."
• "Absolute and uncontaminated stupidity on the part of the people who moved it back" (immediately redacted)
• "The comments in support of moving the article on the individual who self-identifies as Chelsea Manning to her former name in the above survey are riddled with transphobic hate commentary (e.g. "If I had a Wikipedia article and then I suddenly claimed to be a dog"), that have absolutely nothing to do with Wikipedia policy, such as MOS:IDENTITY, and that should be completely discarded. As someone said, the move was a straightforward application of Wikipedia policy such as MOS:IDENTITY, WP:BLP, WP:RS and other relevant policies, and there is really nothing to discuss. There is no way this article is going to be moved anywhere. Filling this talk page with hate commntary and transphobia also violates WP:BLP, which also applies on talk pages."

Morwen

Morwen (talk · contribs) made the initial moves to Chelsea manning in good faith. However, she then went on to publish a blog, then give media interviews, and eventually get named in a Wikipedia article for her efforts. There has been a content-dispute over whether to include it as I write this case, so I cannot confirm at this moment whether she is in the article or not. I wish for Arbcom to clarify if WP:COI addresses using Wikipedia to gain fame or notoriety.

Others

• Scott Martin (talk · contribs) "...the reasoning on display in the comments above is incredibly short-sighted, rules-bound, sympathy-deficient, and, frankly, ignorant."
• Phil Sandifer (talk · contribs) "it is my sincere and unequivocal belief that any instance of referring to a transgender person by their birth name or the gender assigned at birth is hate speech."
• Phil Sandifer (talk · contribs) "The closer made the decision to embrace hate speech as policy. He had a choice. He chose hate speech. And he should be ashamed."

WP:BLP as a trump card

This dispute seems to have spawned because of a belief that WP:BLP is a trump card. While I can understand how the original move was motivated based on WP:BLP, some editors have made comments that the close of the RFC did not matter because WP:BLP trumped the "local consensus." My impression is that WP:CONSENSUS is used to determine the implementation of WP:BLP. If the opposite were true than any single editors interpretation of WP:BLP could overrule community consensus. Such an interpretation essentially destabilizes Wikipedia so I ask that the Arbitrators clarify exactly how the two policies interact.

Expected outcome

A change in Wikipedia's culture to raise the bar of argument. We can look to User:David Gerard for a great example of how to approach others when you're uncomfortable with their comments.

Conclusion

While there is clear evidence of some hate speech in the discussion, any discussion of a controversial issue is bound to invite bigoted remarks. They should be dealt with individually. According to the closer, there were 314 participants and 169 were in support of the change. The scale of the remarks against the supporters is disproportionate to the number of those actually making the remarks. The broad statements that were made against "supports" who wished to return back to Bradley Manning were beyond reasonable. The accusations of misconduct - which took little regard for good faith, ignorance, or actual hatred - devestate the ability of the encyclopedia to communicate, discuss, and reach WP:CONSENSUS. Jimbo said it best:

I think that in general better decisions are made in a spirit of open and thoughtful dialogue rather than top-down decree. I think it worthwhile to separate two issues - the issue of a community decision by consensus (which requires discussion and poll-taking) and hate speech that may emerge as a part of that process. We wouldn't actually improve things if we shut down open discussion, just to stop a few people from being obnoxious. Better to simply stop the few people from being obnoxious by banning them from the discussion, refactoring their comments, or other such measures as appropriate.

— Jimmy Wlaes

I could continue laying out this dispute, name more names, and what have you. But the result would become too long and so I'll leave it to the storm of comments that shall ensue to fill in the holes I've left.

Thanks.
--v/r - TP

Statement by Philip Sandifer

I am unclear as to what, if anything, I am being accused of in this case.

In the interest of disclosure, I am in the midst of a blog post about the events regarding this article and how the decision making got made, because I believe it to be in the public interest to explain how the seventh largest website in the world came to make a decision of this magnitude. I intend to continue covering this topic until it is resolved, and will cover any arbitration proceedings as well.

In light of this, I do not feel it is appropriate for me to participate in the arbitration case. Should my conduct come under active review, I will accept whatever decision the committee makes and will not appeal any sanctions. Phil Sandifer (talk) 22:47, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Statement by LudicrousTripe

Do I post here? If I have messed it up, apologies! I don't know what Arbitration is about, I've not done one of these before. If it is to get me to bow out from the Chelsea Manning article, then I accept. I do not object to the characterisation of at least one of my comments quoted above as overly combative, probably offensive. I can only try to learn to be more civil in future. It is simply so frustrating—I'm tempted to say revealing—to see people who are obviously transphobic being allowed to run amok in the way that someone who is antisemitic would never be permitted to on an article pertaining to Judaism, Jews, or Israel. How such ignorance is allowed to count when judging the balance of support/object in the context of move requests for the article is likewise... frustrating. That is all. I am happy to stay away from the article or whatever is required as a result of this arbitration business. LudicrousTripe (talk) 23:00, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

One quick thing:

Morwen made the initial moves to Chelsea manning in good faith. However, she then went on to publish a blog, then give media interviews, and eventually get named in a Wikipedia article for her efforts. There has been a content-dispute over whether to include it as I write this case, so I cannot confirm at this moment whether she is in the article or not.

Morwen made the initial moves to Chelsea manning in good faith. However, …" However what? What is the issue here? She's not allowed to write a blog about her Wikipedia editing? Where is the WP for that? Talk to the media? Ditto. Named in a Wikipedia article for her efforts! Efforts for what? With the absence of WPs in which to bag her other "offences", this named-in-the-article business, in all honesty, makes her inclusion here in Arbitration seem nothing more than a case of jealousy over her five mins of fame. Apologies if I've misread or am missing something. LudicrousTripe (talk) 23:19, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Collect

Praise the Lord I am not involved to any real extent in what would be another chronophagous exercise should ArbCom decide to accept this case. I disagree with the premise that local consensus can override WP:BLP, no more than "local consensus" can override WP:NPOV. The policies are "not negotiable." Where there is a dispute about the policy, the policy requires the most conservative editing of the article - which should be clear here is the conservative course is to follow what the major newspapers use in their current articles about the person (not the articles about the name change, as it is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer that articles about the name change will, indeed, mention the name change). Anyone disputing how WP:BLP requirements should be interpreted should initiate a general RfC with notice on the BLP noticeboard as well. For ArbCom to try to decide such an issue will devolve to the long term detriment of the committee. In short - this is an issue of policy (WP:BLP and WP:NPOV, and an issue of content, and is not an issue of editor behavior in the slightest. As an aside, Bugs is on his best behavior here -- if the committee tries him on such mild posts as are cited above, the committee might as well try several hundred active editors who have made substantially worse posts in many venues. Thus - decline. Collect (talk) 23:27, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Anythingyouwant

I would like to suggest that ArbCom has authority to delegate some of its role to a jury-like entity. Invite a set of randomly-selected editors to make some decisions, or at least do fact-finding, instead of doing it all yourselves. Each arbitrator cannot possibly have sufficient time to thoroughly investigate each and every case on his or her own. Each member of a jury-like entity would have time. Moreover, ArbCom purports to not decide content disputes, but it is easy enough for you to affect content by more severely dealing with behavioral issues of persons who favor certain content; this is way too much power for you distinguished folks to exercise on your own, whether or not you succumb to such temptations. If you accept this case, please give this a try.Anythingyouwant (talk) 23:58, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Themfromspace

On paper this has everything that ArbCom is interested in: wheel warring, BLP issues, incivility, and casting aspersions. So if you wanted to make a case out of this there is plenty of material to be found for sanctions and desysopps on both sides of the fence. But if you are interested in running the encyclopedia smoothly and not ripping the community apart, you should reject a full case here as the specific issue has been resolved by the levelheaded close of the move request and the general issue is being discussed in several fora. All that ArbCom could do at this point is punish for the sake of punishing. Better to let the issue settle down a bit, or perhaps issue a general admonishment via motion to several of the parties. ThemFromSpace 00:14, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Josh Gorand

I think any reasonable person examining my comments that User:TParis cites above will find that almost all of those comments are misrepresented and cited out of context, and that they are reasonable responses to, inter alia, an array of comments on Talk:Chelsea Manning comparing transgendered people to dogs, calling the subject of a BLP psychotic, ridiculing and mocking transgendered people, and otherwise being completely unnacceptable. And there were not just a few of these comments, as multiple editors have pointed out on Talk:Chelsea Manning and elsewhere. They were also not not dealt with, hardly any of them removed (despite violating BLP) and none of those making them sanctioned to my knowledge.

I have not made any personal attacks at all. Using the word transphobia is relation to clearly transphobic commentary (even without discussing specific users), in the exact same way as dozens of other editors, or explaining what is generally regarded as transphobic according to the accepted definition, is not a personal attack. Typical of how TParis misrepresents me is the very first quote cited by him, which omits the first words of the sentence that make make it clear that I'm talking about the general idea, not any Wikipedia users, when I explained another editor's usage of the term transphobia. I already pointed this out to him in the last debate (see below), but then he finds another forum to repeat the exact same misleading accusation. The idea that the comment "I said no" is "hostile", when it was a response to repeated requests that I rehash a debate that I had already explained was addressed in other sections and indicated I was not interested in rehashing (as it was a very large and complicated debate that many users had participated in), is laughable. These are just examples, and I don't intend to waste any more time on these matters that are already discussed ad nauseum in other appropriate venues.

I also note that this is a clear case of Wikipedia:Forum shopping by User:TParis, as he is merely repeating the exact same misleading claims made by himself that were just rejected on the WP:ANI Manning page where no administrator saw any need to sanction them. Filing this new request to rehash a debate that we just had on WP:ANI is disruptive and indicative of battleground behaviour. I would also like to point out the extreme onesidedness of this request. I, for example, have said nothing that a fairly large number of editors, many of whom administrators, have not also said in that debate, that is reasonable, policy-compliant and a widely held perception among editors and in the outside world. In addition to all those editors making comments that degraded the subject of the BLP in question and transgendered people in general, editors on the opposing side have been engaging in actual incivility, such as calling me "sick, sick" or "hypocrite, hypocrite, hypocrite," (per the ANI Manning page) or using terms like "arrogance", "disgusting", "manipulation" and "collusion" in regard to other editors on the Chelsea Manning talk page.[6][7] Josh Gorand (talk) 00:22, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Statement by CaseyPenk

In the interest of disclosure, I note that I proposed the move from Chelsea Manning to Bradley Manning on policy grounds.

I am greatly concerned with what I view as overly contentious and overly personal comments made on both sides. Many editors made such arguments in the heat of the moment, but the editors listed above tended to exemplify such approaches. They also tended to persist in such behavior - behavior which I find disruptive - over the course of several days. Most of the editors did not appear to exhibit a willingness to "cool off," "step away," or "breathe" before jumping into the fray again. I would best describe their actions as overzealous.

Such an approach to debate makes Wikipedia less inviting to new editors and frustrates existing ones (including myself; there were times during the discussion when I asked myself why I edit Wikipedia when community members treat one another in such a way). Debates such as the one that has taken place set a very unfortunate standard for other debates about contentious topics, including coverage of transgender individuals. I find such conduct flatly unacceptable.

Such comments also get in the way of a policy-based discussion. By injecting highly contentious social topics into the debate, editors are no longer able to clearly see the policy-based rationale behind different perspectives. The discussion becomes mired in repetitive personal attacks and accusations of personal attacks, and involved editors stop looking at Wikipedia policy. Such an approach is highly inappropriate for a talk page and for Wikipedia in general. Some editors do not seem to acknowledge (or at least demonstrate through their actions) that talk pages are not to be used for discussing the article topic in general, but rather for improving the encyclopedia.

I would very much like to discourage a situation such as this from happening again. That would require disciplining the involved editors, so as to make clear that we do not tolerate such behavior. CaseyPenk (talk) 00:50, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Jehochman

The personal conduct questions are not yet ripe for arbitration. Prior attempts at dispute resolution are not a mere formality; they are mandatory. I think many of these issues will work themselves out naturally.

People should not be accused of transphobia or bigotry in an attempt to gain the upper hand in a content dispute. Yes, there's been some transphobia, but there has also been exaggeration or outright false accusations of transphobia. If a comment bothers you, politely point it out to the other editor and ask them to strike. If they do, move on. Jehochman ^Talk 01:18, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Also, could a clerk please ask the filing party to trim the request appropriately? The excessively long request is not going to be read by most people, and it encourages excessively lengthy replies. If a case is accepted, there will be an evidence page. That's when a lot of that content could be introduced. Jehochman ^Talk 01:24, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Kiril, ArbCom has in the past made matters worse rather than better on occasion. The mistake is intervening before other dispute resolution was attempted. Please see WP:ROPE. Give dispute resolution a chance. Some people will back down and remove themselves from the controversy. Those truly needing a sanction will persist and provide more than ample evidence. This will make ArbCom's job much easier. In addition, there's always a chance that everybody will sober up and no case will be needed. Don't be so pessimistic!

Statement by Formerip

I don't think the pagemove activity can be subject to sanction. The actions of Morwen and David Gerard were defensible within policy. Tariqabjotu's response was contrary to policy but it was a single edit and I don't see what purpose a sanction would serve. If Arbcom takes the case, then it might be observed as a finding of fact that Tariqabjotu breached policy and David Gerard was high-handed in his comments during subsequent discussions.

If Arbcom is minded to take the case, the focus should be on low-level bigotry during the RM and associated discussions. The community should not be expected to tolerate working in the atmosphere of a primary school. It is a difficulty that this problem cannot be addressed in forums which operate according to community consensus, because there is a large enough constituency of the community that is either supportive of or indifferent to bone-headed and deliberately provocative contributions so as to prevent consensus against them. A particular problem in this case, because the form of bigotry in question is relatively popular within the community. There's a legitimate role for Arbcom in outlining what standard of decorum is expected of editors in contentious and sensitive discussions.

Equally, the accusation of "transphobia", though merited in some instances (WP has no rule that you can't call a spade a spade), has been bandied about all over the shop. It may be useful for Arbcom to underline that there is a fine line between calling people out and hurling indiscriminate abuse. Formerip (talk) 01:06, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Comment/Statement by Sceptre

Please note that I'm currently under a topic ban on this subject; please also treat this as a request for clarification on whether editors under editing restrictions can discuss the topic at arbitration (and, really, I don't see why not).

I don't have much to say that I haven't already mentioned at User talk:Jimbo Wales (permalink). In short, there are massive issues with editor conduct and violations of Foundation policies (BLP and NDP) that the community has proven unwilling to deal with; for that reason, it's imperative that ArbCom take this case. Additionally, given that administrator misconduct is part of this case, only ArbCom can completely resolve the issue. Sceptre ^(talk) 03:16, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Archaeo

I urge the committee to accept this case. A casual glance at the wide-ranging ANI subpage or the talk page and move request archives will show a number of disputes, ranging from several editors accusing Morwen and DG of a variety of missteps (see RA's list) to those accusing Tariqabjotu of violating rules regarding page protection under BLP (see this subthread). Furthermore, the user conduct issues that have been brought up that involve over-strident advocacy or outright hate speech need to be addressed. None of these disputes seem to be attracting the attentions of anyone uninvolved at all, and the idea of initiating individual dispute resolution threads for each of the issues sounds kind of absurd and unhelpful, not to mention a great way to spread this nonsense all over the encyclopedia. And frankly, in many years of being a dedicated follower of the Wikipedia community, I have never seen such a foul debate. I think the committee should initiate a broad case that examines all of these issues.

At the very least, some motions regarding the administrative actions here would be helpful, if only to establish that their administrative actions were correct, as well as a call to the community to discuss clarifying how WP:BLP and MOS:IDENTITY interact and guide us regarding transgender article subjects. However, I don't find NW's argument very convincing; if the committee isn't equipped to handle disputes like this, why do we bother having a committee at all? Kirill's reasoning should guide the committee here; you can either accept this case or put it off, but the issues being raised here are unlikely to resolve themselves on their own. Archaeo (talk) 03:50, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Request by Beyond My Ken

Although I read the entirety of it, I confess that I do not understand what, exactly, TParis is asking for here, so I'd like to request that he post an "executive summary", perhaps in bullet points, of precisely what the issues are he thinks should be the subject of an arbitration. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:07, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Statement and request by David Gerard

Morwen wrote up a detailed explanation of our original rationale for the move to "Chelsea Manning", which I checked over and co-signed. It's too long to include here directly, but I ask you to read it. (The only thing it lacks is something on BLP and immediacy, which I noted below it.) Our original action was a BLP action concerning a high-profile article; there was no path of action that would not have been controversial, but that's what the BLP rule is for. I also maintain that everything therein is still a relevant consideration.

Controversy, or potential controversy, should not overrule BLP. Many editors have demanded sanctions against us both on the basis that BLP actions should not be taken if there might be controversy or if consensus would eventually come to a different result (as if an appeals court reversal would automatically lead to a disciplinary hearing for the lower-court judge); if this were accepted, BLP would be dead, as no admin would dare enter into a controversial situation.

Morwen and I explained our actions on the article talk page at the time of the move. There have been repeated claims we did not; these are false. Many editors claim we did not answer, when what they mean is they did not agree. I ask that any claims to this effect be checked closely against our edit histories over the past week.

I urge the Committee not to punt on the naming of the article. While the admins who took on the job of the RM should be commended for taking on a difficult task that lots of people would be unhappy with either result of, I feel that their result was disastrously wrong. Given no clear consensus, they eventually decided that counting votes overcame BLP considerations. We now have a biography of a living person whose title is a deliberate and procedurally calculated misnaming and misgendering of its subject, directly against the undisputed wishes of its subject, in a situation where readers would have no problem finding it under the subject's chosen name, because of the votes of editors who literally don't see there's a problem, don't think there's a reason for guidelines on the topic that have stood and been applied for years, and are offended when someone points out they may not know all there is to know on the topic. And it'll stay there, marking Wikipedia to the world as a trans-hostile venue, for at least the next thirty days.

There is also the wider issue of what this says about Wikipedia to trans and trans-friendly readers and editors: we will tell you what your name is. I despair of explaining to skeptics how profoundly offensive this is - not just to Manning, but to all trans and trans-friendly readers and editors, as offensive as egregious racism or homophobia in Wikipedia policy would be, and in the same way - and of finding a source sufficient to convince editors who literally question the existence of trans issues as something to be taken seriously of the towering importance of this issue; editors opposed to "Chelsea Manning" have so far refused to accept the almost-complete move of the British press within hours, the substantial move of the US press over the past week, the AP style guide and the GLAAD Media Reference Guide.

People will, and should, talk about this in blogs and to the press when asked, because we are a top 10 website of profound social importance run by a charity funded by public donations, this is an issue that reaches far beyond a single article subject, and as such we do actually owe the world explanations, and they will be demanding them. This is a huge issue, but that's why it's at your door.

- David Gerard (talk) 10:40, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Chelsea Manning: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter <1/0/0/2>

Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse/other)

• Request noted. Awaiting further statements, though please let's keep things focused, calm and succinct. Carcharoth (talk) 00:08, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

  Please don't use this page to argue with each other or repeat debates from elsewhere or make excessively long statements. What is needed here are short statements either for acceptance of a case (and what scope it should have) or rejection of a case (e.g. if more attempts at dispute resolution are needed). Carcharoth (talk) 00:35, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

• (edit conflict) Comment Frankly, I am disgusted with the comments with many of our editors and administrators on that page. But I also see little room for ArbCom to get involved. The Committee is simply not designed for dealing with a situation like this. We would take a month at best to come up with a ruling, and the existence of the case in the meantime would not help calm matters down. Now, if we made myself or someone else an unreviewable dictator on this, that would probably take care of the matter. But I doubt that would make many people happy. Anyway, I am leaning towards declining this case for that reason. But a couple of subpoints:

• @TParis: No I don't think that Morwen has a conflict of interest here, any more than User:Dominic does when he works on Smithsonian-related articles (e.g. slight, not enough to prohibit editing either the article or the talk page [though there may be some COI with respect to that one sentence).
• @TParis:: I agree with your interpretation of BLP/consensus here. Every editor who reasonably is taking BLP into account (e.g. the people who are not calling trans folks "it") deserves to have their opinion heard.
• Generally, but at Josh Gorand especially: The use of transphobic to describe some editors' behaviors was perfectly apt. Not everyone who wishes that Chelsea Manning's page should be located at Bradley Manning instead of Chelsea Manning is transphobic though. By no means. Yes, some people were and are. But it is reasonable to think that Manning's long-term historical notability is going to come from the period in life where she was known to the general public as a man, and that Wikipedia should wait to change this until we start getting feedback from the published scholarly community in a few years' time. So my advice is to tone it down. Yes some people are being transphobic, but you won't win anyone over by calling them out on it. And not everyone is.

• My two cents. As I said, I'm leaning towards declining but I wouldn't mind seeing more statements. NW (Talk) 01:07, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
• Accept to examine both the allegations of hate speech (and, conversely, the allegations of improper labeling of statements as hate speech) and the allegations that editors have acted in contravention of the BLP policy, particularly vis-à-vis the precedents described in the Badlydrawnjeff case; both are potentially actionable violations, and deserve a full investigation.

  With regard to NuclearWarfare's comment just above, while he is correct that the case will likely be lengthy, I do not think that our accepting it will prevent a natural calming of matters; rather, given the acrimony that has already been shown in these debate and the recent media coverage of this very dispute—which I expect will only increase given these latest events—I think it is unrealistic to expect the dispute to calm down on its own at all. I suspect the only choice we have is whether to accept a case now or in a month when the inevitable next move request takes place, and I see nothing to be gained by waiting. Kirill ^[talk] 01:25, 1 September 2013 (UTC)