Talk:Ophidiophobia

Untitled

Shouldn't ophidiophobia either have its own page or redirect to "snakes?" Redirecting to "phobia" doesn't give any information about what the word means, since probably most people already know the "phobia" part.

a case of the talk page cropping up before the article. now i've created it. will expand it too. Idleguy 06:42, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

"Fear of snakes is much more prevalent than other animal phobias due to the fact that snakes have been able to survive in almost all terrain from the jungles, to farm lands to urban areas." This seems weak. --Wetman 06:27, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

redirecting to snakes would make a person who is searching for their phobia get even more scared. (as I'm sure there is a picture of a snake on that page, although I wouldn't be sure. I am an ophidiophobic and looking at a mere picture is horrific for me.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.173.215.36 (talk) 23:37, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Famous People

There needs to be a reference for each person in this list. I am considering deleting the section if no fellow editors provide sources. TheRingess 07:11, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I've deleted two names whose articles don't mention about this phobia and retaining the other two. btw, isn't an entry in Wikipedia source enough? If any, the issue should be raised in the Indiana Jones article (however by looking at his movies it should be proof enough of his phobia) and not here. just my opinion. --Idleguy 13:51, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

If a wikipedia entry for a person talks about it, and gives a source, then in my opinion that's enough. If the source is not mentioned in their article then the contributing editor needs to provide it here. For example, I saw no reference in the Salma Hayek article, so where did the original editor get the info.TheRingess 15:27, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

OK. But I didn't add Salma, AFAIK only Indiana Jones is a confirmed ophidiophobic. And he's not even real! --Idleguy 16:36, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Who the stupid guy wrote this???? —Preceding unsigned comment added by HHLohrocks (talk • contribs) 10:34, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Melissa kaplan redlink

I'm kinda in a hurry, so links for article to do:

• Meet Melissa Kaplan: Educator and Animal Welfare Activist
• Iguanas for Dummies
• Rehabilitation of reptiles & amphibians
• Jim Cherry, " Loco for Lizards", a chapter about Melissa
• Captive Care of the Green Iguana, Adam Britton PhD & Melissa Kaplan MA
• autobio

`'Míkka 07:24, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Indiana Jones

His ophidiophobia is a big laugh line ten minutes into the first movie (at the end of the opening sequence, when he's about to fly off in the floatplane), and is given an extended sequence in the recent "Crystal Skull" movie ("Tell me it's a rope!" etc.). The relationship of Indiana Jones to ophidiophobia is much the same as the relationship of Dr. Strangelove to Alien hand syndrome... AnonMoos (talk) 16:07, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

In the edit summary I clearly asked: do you have a proof from reliable sources that it was a phobia or a regular fear of snakes? People routinely scared dearly when suddenly seeing a snake, not to say a huge bunch of them, so what you see ina movie means nothing. - Altenmann >t 18:40, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

That's nice -- "reliable sources" are actually most useful concerning issues which are truly disputed or controversial among those who actually know something about the subject. This would not appear to be one of those cases, to the degree of justifying the deletion of the Indiana Jones mention from the article. Add all the "citation" needed tags you want, but do not delete something which is very highly relevant to this particular article (not "trivia"[sic]), and which is not truly disputed or controversial among those who actually know something about the subject. Also, your added header of "known cases" is faintly ridiculous at best, since Indiana Jones is of course a fictional case... AnonMoos (talk) 18:58, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

P.S. Forgot the "well of souls" sequence in the first movie, of course. Maybe you should really take this to the Indiana Jones article, where his fear of snakes is prominently mentioned twice (once in the lead section). AnonMoos (talk) 19:06, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Please cool down and read what I wrote carefully. Once again, don't confuse "fear of snakes" with phobia, which is a disease. As for "known cases", what is your objection? Are you now telling me that the Indiana Jones case is not known? - Altenmann >t 19:45, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm sure your edits are incredibly well-intentioned, but unfortunately, they labelled something something as "trivia" which is simply not trivia with respect to this one particular article -- and your apparent status of never having seen one of the movies may not give you the best qualifications to make sweeping edits in this specific area. And unfortunately, the phrasing "known cases" contains a clear implication that Indiana Jones is not fictional, whereas in fact he is fictional. AnonMoos (talk) 21:14, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

"Fictional" OK with me. However I disagree that "known cases" has any other implications except they are ...er... "known". I did see all these movies, but what I see in a movie has nothing to do with what I write in an article. See my answer to your "P.S." - Altenmann >t 22:28, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Anyway, Monk and Indiana Jones are not too directly comparable, since Monk has an endless list of neuroses, while Indiana Jones is an all-round tough guy when dealing with just about anything other than snakes (which is why he's kind of the fictional poster-child for Ophidiophobia). I don't really see why the two should be lumped together. AnonMoos (talk) 21:52, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

If you provide a reference for this statement, it would be a good addition to the article. - Altenmann >t 22:28, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

P.S. Scroll down at http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0367882/quotes and form your own conclusions about whether he has a real full-blown phobia. AnonMoos (talk) 21:43, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

My own conclusions are called original research and cannot be basis of wikipedia article texts. The criterion is very simple: if not a single known movie critic mentioned that IJ has this phobia, then probably either he does not have it or it is a rather nonnotable character trait, regardless what you or I think. - Altenmann >t 22:28, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately, your abstract metaphysical devotion to the theoretical Platonic idea of exalted Wikipedia sourcing ideals, combined with your complete and utter ignorance of what is actually being discussed, is what I find to be somewhat off-putting (it certainly does not practically move things along in a constructive direction that will clearly lead to the real world improvement of the article)... AnonMoos (talk) 01:26, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for finding very polite words of saying that in our opinion I am stubborn moron. Still, this does not give you rights to ignore wikipedia most basic rules. Since you clearly demonstrated both disregard of wikipedia policies and disrespect towards me, I will no longer discuss this subject with you. - Altenmann >t 05:47, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

No, that's not what I meant, and that's not what I said. However, what I did say is not everybody is suited to edit every article on every subject (I'm certainly not suited to edit every article on every subject myself). I'm sure that your absolute devotion to Wikipedia policies is second to none, but that doesn't mean that somebody else might not be a lot more suited to improve this article in a practical common-sense way (say somebody who has actually seen an Indiana Jones movie, or who is not so deathly mortally afraid of the dreaded "original research" that they're unwilling to acquire a little basic relevant background knowledge on the side...). AnonMoos (talk) 06:16, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

2017

• This is not a case for this article and AnonMoos, you clearly don't know what a phobia is. An RS will be required.
   — Berean Hunter (talk) 10:54, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Please explain why you think that Indiana Jones' case is allegedly "not a phobia". It sure looks like the symptoms of a full-blown case to me (basic hatred, fear, and revulsion, plus the need to semi-fool himself in the Crystal Skull movie sequence before he can even bear to touch a snake in order to save his life -- "Tell me it's a rope!" etc.). AnonMoos (talk) 14:47, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

An RS is required per WP:ONUS WP:BURDEN for you to restore. It was painful to read the above where you suggest that the other editor is ignorant when your responses clearly reflect that you are the one that does not know the proper definition of what a phobia is. This is the second paragraph in the article:

"Care must also be taken to differentiate people who do not like snakes or fear them for their venom or the inherent danger involved. An ophidiophobe not only fears them when in live contact but also dreads to think about them or even see them in video or still pictures."

...and you are disregarding such care because you've missed all of that. I can tell that you've never had a psychology class in your life or you were absent when they spoke of phobias.

To humor you, Indiana Jones does not apply here because his fear is rational because he keeps getting into circumstances where there are real snakes. Someone with a phobia has the irrational fear such that it would be debilitating in life. If he had the irrational fear of a true phobia, he wouldn't have ever considered going on his excursions.

A photo test accompanied by a physiological response is one indicator. None of that exists with IJ's fictional circumstances.

You are, in effect, working against the true subject of the article when you throw such suggested trivia in there and perpetuate ignorance. You do not have a true understanding of what a phobia really is.

You can post to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Psychology and ask for more input if you don't believe me.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 15:09, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

This article may help you learn what a phobia really is.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 15:17, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Altenmann was the one that was correct above.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 15:21, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

You're a pretty good theorizing armchair psychologist for someone who clearly has no professional qualifications or real knowledge of the subject, but unfortunately for you, your ranting tirade is far more of original research than anything I wrote above, or that was ever on the article itself. A rational aversion to snakes means that you calmly avoid them when you think that there's a possibility that one of them might harm you. That's not what Indiana Jones does -- as already explained above, he has a little emotional freakout ten minutes into the first movie, and in the most recent movie he has an extreme aversion to touching a snake even when it's necessary for him to save his life.

As I've said before, Indiana Jones is the fictional poster-boy for Ophidiophobia in the same way that Dr. Strangelove is for Alien hand syndrome ("hence the condition's common association with the character"), so it is NOT "trivia"[sic] for this particular article... AnonMoos (talk) 01:02, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

A while ago I found a simple cure against obsessive compulsive phoboiphiles: Create articles titled Fear of.... insteadd of ...phobia. Unfortunately i am indefbanned from the subject. Please dont ping me again. - üser:Altenmann >t 17:52, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Burden vs. Onus

Above, I had to correct my shortcut to point to WP:BURDEN as the reason something needs an RS to be included. For this article, WP:ONUS would also certainly apply. Some random author stating that IJ has Ophidiophobia would not be sufficient as an RS. If a pop culture author from Rolling Stone offhandedly refers to Indiana Jones as having Ophidiophobia that would not merit inclusion on its own. If that author interviewed someone who could make a proper diagnosis that would perhaps be relevant. Misuse of the term by authors does not qualify misuse of the term in this article. Consensus for sources is required and should be discussed first for "pop culture" references. Indeed, this article is subject to a higher standard as set by WP:MEDRS.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 16:14, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Since your ranting tirade above is semi-incoherent, not to mention stuffed to the brim with original research, I'm really not feeling much of a burden or onus so far. AnonMoos (talk) 01:08, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Suggested sources

How about this source:[1]? The publisher, John Wiley & Sons, seems ok, so it´s not an SPS. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:07, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Here´s another one:[2]. "Juvenile nonfiction", but doesn´t seem terrible. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:24, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

I'm not very good with Google Books (which at times crashes my browser, or comes close to doing so), so it will take me a little time to process those links, but thanks for being the first one in this talk page section with a reasonable approach -- the others have started out by deleting text from the article first thing (thereby creating unnecessary antagonism), and then have either insisted on adopting a pose of profound personal ignorance and snidely shot down my attempts at sourcing in a passive aggressive manner (see "22:28, 12 January 2010" above), or have declared in advance that they will disregard any source that conflicts with their inaccurate personal opinions (see "16:14, 29 October 2017"). AnonMoos (talk) 11:15, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

I like "In Popular culture" (or whatever variant an article use) sections, but I´m firmly of the opinion that these sections should be restricted to items that can be reasonably sourced, otherwise they tend to bloat out of WP:PROPORTION. When I saw this at ANI, I thought "Come on, someone must have written about that in a source we can use..?". Anyway, we´ll see what happens. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:28, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

We need much better sources than that. In Why Did It Have To Be Snakes..." that author is actually applying the term broadly to simply mean fear of snakes and speaking about mankind having a general fear of snakes...that is a misuse of the term. A book about the Indiana Jones franchise is not going to be an RS for an article on a medical condition.

Scared Stiff... is a walking BLP violation where that author decides to have fun naming "famous phobics" for each chapter. Interesting that modern day authors are doling out these labels for undiagnosed medical conditions...I wonder what qualifies them to make such assertions? On page 88, they try to describe the phobia related to failure and then on page 89 they have "famous phobics" but then go on to write "Many famous people have overcome failure and their inspirational stories show that failure itself isn't a true obstacle to success". They then list five famous people that had failures but then went on to success. The author never even bothered to qualify any of the individuals as ever having an abnormal fear which is what a phobia is. So, Michael Jordan, Oprah Winfrey, Albert Einstein, Steven Spielberg and Steve Jobs have been labeled as "famous phobics" when it comes to a named phobia...without any qualification whatsoever. None of them have ever been qualified as having an abnormal fear of failure. That is now to be considered an unreliable source.

Look, if it is a medical condition then it needs diagnosis from a doctor. Even psychologists and psychiatrists need to actually examine a person in order to make that diagnosis. It would be conjecture on their part to speak of someone having a specific phobia if that person hasn't been properly examined. People in general aren't free to use these terms as they wish. That is like people using the term schizophrenic when they don't know what it really means but they are trying to imply that someone is crazy. You can't do that because it is ignorant.

Trying to use made up characters in articles on medical conditions is flawed from the onset and should be dropped. It won't be a good match. General authors will not be considered reliable here.

Did a doctor ever diagnose Indiana Jones? If not, use of the term is completely incorrect. If someone wanted to list a real life person, we would have to have very good sources that actually would show that they have been properly diagnosed or it would be a BLP violation. We shouldn't drop standards to let Indy or Bart Simpson through the door.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 12:21, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

The idea of a professional medical diagnosis of a fictional character is somewhat ridiculous, which makes your particular personal approach to sourcing unfortunately also ridiculous... AnonMoos (talk) 12:41, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Not nearly as ridiculous as adding a fictional character that hasn't had a diagnosis to a real-life medical condition and then believing that a quality content contribution has been made which improves the article.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 13:02, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

No, it is not ridiculous. It is clear to everyone that Indiana Jones is afraid of poisonous snakes but not at all clear that his reasonable fear rises to the level of a phobia. The screenwriters could have created a scene where a psychiatrist tells him "You have ophidiophobia" but they didn't. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 16:13, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

IMO you take this "In fiction" part of the article way to seriously, this aspect don´t need the whole WP:MEDRS steelbath. It´s not medical science so much as percieved appearance. Like the phobia articles notes, things are sometimes called phobias that aren´t actually phobias. But that´s me. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:47, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Sources suggested by Pluto2012

Here is the source that you may look for. or at least enough to cite his name.

This one too

Not a clinical review but good anyway. Jones is a fictional character.

Alone would not be enough but just confirm the fact it is well known and admitted

...

Pluto2012 (talk) 05:07, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

The Most Common?

Is there any real evidence or source saying it is the most common phobia? I know a lot more people afraid of spiders than snakes. This just sounds like inaccurate make-believe nonsense to me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.34.26.54 (talk) 02:51, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

33% of the population has a diagnosable fear of snakes? Not likely. -- 13:10, 28 May 2013‎ 216.7.252.92

Stub?

This article is marked as a stub. What more is needed? RJFJR (talk) 06:56, 25 December 2013 (UTC)