User talk:CheeseDreams

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Archive

• /November 2004

Three revert rule

FYI, the three revert rule starts with "This guideline applies to each person". See Wikipedia:Three revert rule. jguk 17:32, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

FYI, it further states "A growing consensus is that, since the mere incidental fact of one side outnumbering the other does not, alone, make the majority right, each side of an argument should be limited to 3 reverts per day" CheeseDreams 17:41, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Hang on. Where did you get that from. It doesn't say that at all. Instead, it says the exact opposite: "3RR specifically does not apply to groups" jguk 17:56, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

If it does not say that now then someone has been changing the policy to suit their POV, it was there last week. CheeseDreams 18:05, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

So when will an admin block cheese so that we can go back to editing an encyclopedia? [[User:Sam Spade|Sam Spade Arb Com election]] 18:16, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

So when will an admin ban Sam Spade so we can go back to editing an NPOV encyclopedia? CheeseDreams 18:19, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I can't seem to find a version of the article that says that. Please point it out to me as I would find it interesting to know who included it. Cool Hand Luke 03:33, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Please don't delete or edit other people's comments

CheeseDreams, please don't delete or edit other people's comments on the Talk pages. You've done it to me personally twice now (that I've noticed), once in the talk page of the Cultural and Historical Jesus, and (at least) once before on the Wikiproject:Jesus discussion page, when you made most of the discussion of Christology in the strikethrough font. You seem to be relatively new to Wikipedia, so I'm asking nicely. Say what you need to say, but let others say what they say and let their words stand on their own. Thank you. Wesley 03:12, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

If you mean a comment in the summary, that is because I summarised the text. Your comments can be viewed at archives 2-5.

And on Wikiproject:Jesus, I struckthrough (but did not delete) items which had been actioned. This is the standard practice for todo lists is it not?

CheeseDreams 08:39, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I meant the comment on the summary itself, encouraging people to read those archives instead of relying on someone's summary. On Wikiproject:Jesus, the text you marked as strikethrough were not part of a todo list, it was a discussion of whether to do anything with Christology at all. In both cases it appears that you were trying to delete or conceal my objections to your proposals, rather than actually respond to them. Maybe that wasn't your intention, but it certainly had that appearance. Wesley \

It already says that the full text is in the archive, and that the summary is by me, and disputed by you.

W.r.t. the wikiproject, if you note the talk page, you will see that I struck through everywhere that there was discussion which I had actioned. If I had intended to delete or conceal your objections, I would merely have deleted the text, or put <!-- --> tags round it. CheeseDreams 19:27, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Also regarding your summary of Slrubenstein's comments, "yanking someone's chain" doesn't have anything to do with masturbation in the U.S., at least when used in the context Slrubenstein used it. It just means he wondered if FT2 were saying things just to get a reaction from him. That's probably an honest misunderstanding between the two of you, but it might be helpful if you acknowledged it and corrected that part of your summary. Thanks. Wesley 14:06, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

If Slrubenstein agrees to retract his uncivility toward FT2 such as "charicature of a nut", "ar eyanking my chain", "your reasoning is specious and ignorant", and apologise for them, then I am perfectly willing to remove the comments from the summary. Until that time, they remain, since this is how I and other non-US (remember that the majority of english speakers are not in the US) readers read the text.

I have also just looked the phrase up in a slang dictionary, and cannot find an alternative meaning to the phrase. CheeseDreams 19:32, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I agree, most English speakers are outside the US, so it's a very understandable misunderstanding. Here are links to a couple of definitions that I think are better than the one I gave, and probably closer to what SLR meant: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=yank+one's+chain and http://www.ozyvoyuer.com/aussieslangdictionary.html#Y. (The second looks Australian, so it's not a strictly US-centric usage.) Wesley 02:52, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Arbitration

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of the RfA. A lot of familiar names in that crew! I don't know that I'd call them a cabal but I know what you mean. They've learned that the best way to push a POV is to gather a small gang. The way Wikipedia is structured it's easy to subvert consensus by doing so. I'll try to have a look at what's passed and if I can comment constructively, I'll do that. Dr Zen 06:17, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

---

Regarding arbitration, CheeseDreams, I was not implying at all that I didn't agree that I should recuse myself -- I did so, as I hope you noticed. I was noting that it is Arbitration Committee practice for someone involved peripherally in a dispute (or directly, of course) to recuse themselves, and that in the past no one has needed to prompt arbitrators to do this. We're intelligent, we're committed to fairness, and we police ourselves pretty effectively in this regard. I was just wishing you'd have given me the courtesy of waiting to see if I would recuse myself from the case, rather than assuming I wouldn't. I will note, though, that the standard you suggest is generally considered too high for arbitration here. In a case like yours, it's obvious that with so many involved parties (in a relatively small community), all of those people will know at least one arbitrator -- mere acquaintance does not require an arbitrator to recuse. We recuse when we're involved in the case itself, or when one of the involved parties is either a long time enemy or close friend. If arbitrators could only hear cases involving users they had never before encountered, we couldn't arbitrate any case effectively. Just thought I'd offer my thoughts, and let you take them as you please.

On another note, I am not sure if it was you who wrote the phrase "cabal of 'fundamentalists'" in your arbitration request, but if you did, I'd suggest to you that it might be wise not to use that phrase. The list of users who oppose you includes at least one very dedicated atheist and at least one other person who is openly hostile to Christianity -- characterizing the list as "fundamentalist" will be seen as a blanket generalization. Obviously you can do as you please, but I think other users will notice the word and the users, as I did, and be confused or else draw negative assumptions (i.e., characterizing atheists as "fundamentalists" might be seen as an indication that one is hasty to judgment, etc.).

Now, I'm sure you don't much like getting a note from me, so I'll disappear, but if you ever do feel like talking, I want you to know that I'd be happy to. As I hope you can see above, I'm not "out to get you". I'd like to understand you a little better, and I'd like to be able to work with you productively if I can. If you'd like to talk about it, drop me a note. Thanks, Jwrosenzweig 21:49, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Unlike most of the arbitration committee, as far as I am aware, you have actually engaged in debate over controversial issues with me. I regard that as being "an involved party". CheeseDreams 21:59, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

No, I wrote the phrase 'cabal of "fundamentalists"', please note the quotes around the word "fundamentalist"

I have absolutely no issue with getting a note from you. CheeseDreams 21:59, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I'm glad -- here's another note then. You seem to misunderstand me (perhaps I'm not communicating well). I have agreed with you on two separate pages already that I most certainly am an involved party. I don't want to sound at all rude, but I have to admit that your continued responses to me are making me wonder if you understand what I mean when I say that I have "recused" myself from the case. If I am wrong, please forgive my suggestion. But if you are unclear on what it means, it means that I have openly declared that I am an involved party and that I will not offer any arbitrator opinions (or any votes) on your case, should it be accepted. I apologize if it is unclear -- I had thought that "recuse" was common in the English court system as well, but I confess I do not know it well, and perhaps that is the source of the confusion. As far as the quotation marks around "fundamentalist"...well, as I said, it's your choice. I can't claim that I understand what difference in meaning is implied by the quotes, but I don't suppose it's important for me to understand. Thanks for replying nicely -- I appreciate it. Jwrosenzweig 22:22, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I understand the use of the word "recuse", I worked it out from the context of the other arbitrations. It is equivalent to the english term "abstain", which is significantly clearer and more readable, and actually is able to lend itself to a noun formation such as "abstention" rather than the problem "recuse" suffers from - "recusation" sounds too similar to "accusation" whereas "recusement" and "recusementation" are blatantly stupid words.

try "recusal" Slrubenstein

try civility. CheeseDreams

try "recusal," please. Slrubenstein

I was unaware that quotation marks were not comprehended in the US. Here, its use means that the text inside the quotation marks is a quotation. Perhaps this logic is not understood in the US. Also, this is the source of the famed quotation marks in the air gesture that so irritates people. We take 'the "xxxxx"' to mean 'the so-called xxxxx'. CheeseDreams 22:42, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for clarifying. The arbitration committee differentiates between recusal (the noun form, so you know) and abstention -- if I had voted to abstain, it would merely have indicated that I was non-committal about accepting the case, but it would not have removed me as an active arbitrator. It was necessary that I recuse myself in order to be inactivated for the case. I agree, by the way...recusementation would indeed be blatantly stupid. As far as the quotation marks, you're playing with me a bit there -- you know I wasn't implying that the quotation mark is unknown in my country (although I admit the semicolon is endangered here). It's just that the contemporary usage of the quotation mark is too broad, in my experience -- people place things in quotes because they've heard it somewhere, because they want to distance themselves from the assertion, as a substitute for an adjective such as "so-called" or "putative", or for a variety of other reasons about which I won't speculate because I imagine I'd be wrong. At any rate, I appreciate your explanation...I admit, I don't know of anyone who calls Wetman a fundamentalist (certainly not he himself) and I can't imagine why he'd be a "so-called fundamentalist" if no one has so called him. But then I really am taking too much of your time over a trifle of a comment of mine. Thank you for giving more than the attention it merited. Have a good day, Jwrosenzweig 22:49, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

It's night time here. This is UTC land. CheeseDreams 22:55, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Indeed! My apologies, I'm normally better at stopping to adjust my signoffs for other people's time zones. A pleasant night to you, then, Jwrosenzweig 22:58, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Slrubenstein

Can you please show some diffs or other evidence for shrubstein reverting and protecting the page, because I can't see any in the page history. Also you have to show evidence of two people attempting and failing to resolve the dispute -again we need the diffs otherwise the rfc is invalid and may be deleted early. TIA Theresa Knott (The snott rake) 22:04, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Jesus article edit summary

My reference in the edit summary to "weasel" was a reference to the terms being weasel as described in the guideline Wikipedia:Avoid weasel terms (which is not a policy and is disputed). (The term in my edit summary is used as an adjective of the word "phrase".) On reflection, I can see how my usage of the term was open to interpretation to someone unfamiliar with the term "weasel terms" and "weasel words" and I apologise for any offence I (albeit inadvertently) caused. jguk 08:50, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

3 revert rule warning

I just wanted to let you know about the Three revert rule, which allows administrators to block editors from editing for 24 hours if they revert an article more than three times in a 24 hours period. According to my count, you've reverted the Jesus article 4 times in the last 24 hours. I'm not going to impose a block right now, but anymore excesive reverts may result in a block. Have a good day, and please play nice. Gentgeen 09:06, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Actually, I didn't count that revert in my total, as reverting vandalism is generally considered to be an accecptable action, and I thank you for cleaning up the page after that very strange edit. Gentgeen 09:18, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

hello

About that article you are in a huge argument over. Am i right? Tigermoon 14:55, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Mediation

Why do you believe I am not impartial? -- llywrch 21:41, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I see no point in discussing it, the fact remains that I have lost trust in you. I am amazed that you acted in a way which managed to seriously offend Amgine. Once trust has been lost, there is little that can be done to regain it. Therefore your position as mediator is now untenable. Goodbye. CheeseDreams 21:45, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Edit conflict

I am looking to see what should be done. Just a quick note acknowledging I heard you. :) ---Rednblu | Talk 20:19, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

ArbCom "election"

Hello CheeseDreams,

I want to let you know about a message I've just put on te ArbCom elections endorsements page. I'm letting you know because I've seen from your comments on that page and in its history, that you are concerned about the fairness of these "elections". So am I. "Neutrality" has had a grudge against me since I voted against him in his admin elections and has made it %^&$ hell for me to try and continue to use the Wikipedia since then.

He keeps blocking me. I have disabled hands and it's very hard to try and stand up against this abuse by this bully. Please help me stop this stich-up of the election by publicising what's going on and demanding proper fair dealing from Danny and the other organisers. Thanks. - WikiUser.

(P.S. They should stop keeping the "elections" as quiet as they can, i.e. put a notice on the Main Page. They should stop trying to prevent people from taking part, all they want they say is for the candidates to praise themselves, their friends to praise them- and anyone else to shut up and no criticising. Some elections! It's a stich up for the same old group of users.)WikiUser 20:27, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Hi, I will deal with the main page thing.

Why is neutrality blocking you? What is the given reason? CheeseDreams 20:31, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Hi-he blocked me twice over the past week or so. Both times other admins unblocked me. He had no justification. First time he never told me why, which is against the blocking policy. Second time claimed I'd made legal threats on the mailing list. I didn't as anyone who can read and understand basic English would see. And one can't be blocked for legal threats anyway: he blocked me for "infinite". Don't vote for this bloke.WikiUser 21:02, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

You can be blocked for legal threats. There is an established Wikipedia policy on this, and is a result of an arbitration decision. If you wish to appeal, post to RfC. I will ask him to justify his actions. CheeseDreams 21:15, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

ArbCom header at the Main Page talk

I removed it; the Main Page talk is not for advertising current Wikipedia events. We have Wikipedia:Goings-on for that (the ArbCom vote is mentioned on Recent Changes, so serious editors can't really miss it). Plus, I hate people adding posters all over the place. :-) If you really feel it has to be on the Main Page talk, I'm not going to stop you, but I do ask you to reconsider. Cheers! JRM 20:51, 2004 Dec 4 (UTC)

Annotation: I just read the above comment. I still disagree, but now I know where you're coming from. JRM 20:53, 2004 Dec 4 (UTC)

I think its important that the masses rather than just the hacks vote. Its not as if its propaganda for one or other side. CheeseDreams 20:58, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

FYI - (a) The main page is not for any sort of advertisement at all. As has been said a million times previously, the main page is for our readers, and the community portal is for our writers. (b) I agree with JRM about not posting banners all over the place. Plus, it just makes more work when it comes time to get rid of them. →Raul654 21:00, Dec 4, 2004 (UTC)

No, (A) its at the main page TALK, not the article. (b) And we can get rid of them by simply changing the template to "please remove this template". Easy. CheeseDreams 21:13, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The elections are a special case. They'll be over soon anyway so it's not as if it's any big deal. It takes people ages to find their way around the Wiki- so people may not check the recent changes. Readers may have donated money, they may want to become involved. Why would anyone want to LIMIT the knowledge that an election's going on? It is after all about who runs the Wikipedia, these arbcoms control user's rights. Seems they want to keep the powers "in the family" as much as possible.WikiUser 21:24, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I don't know about Raul, but I admit it—I have been offered lollipops and adminship by the cabal, and I succumbed to the temptation. (The lollipops, that is, not the adminship—that's just a lot of hard work.) You heard it here first. JRM 12:15, 2004 Dec 6 (UTC)

Hi

you should know about this: [1] Slrubenstein 21:19, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I was going to go for arbitration on the page, it seemed more likely to produce a result rather than continuance of the talk page. CheeseDreams 21:23, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

If either of you was the least bit interested in "mediation" that particular dispute would have been settled a long time ago. The problem is that you have a fundamental difference of opinion, and it's rather easy to sympathise with both sides.Dr Zen 22:59, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I was, thats why I was supporting FT2. Slrubenstein took against him. Thus the more formal mediation. CheeseDreams 23:06, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

RfC

I rather feel that those "certifying" the dispute are pretty much the ones who've done least to try to resolve it and most to stoke it up. However, you know that I don't think you've done yourself any favours. I know you feel you've been ganged up on, and I think that some of the people involve do believe in, erm, concerted action, but you'd be far better off not to help them perpetuate the quarrel. The RfAr was not a great idea, although it's thoroughly amusing watching it slowly dawn on them that you are asking for them to be censured. Perhaps you should note on the RfC that they have disregarded the policy and that you will make no further comment. Let them post all the further "evidence" they like and serenely ignore it. Dr Zen 22:59, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I was going to ignore the RfC anyway, far too amusing watching the "evidence" they present. I did enjoy watching them slowly realise what was really going on. (IMO) Nasse (Piglet) seems to have lost a level of sanity, and is by far the most amusing (IMO) of the group.

The most amusing comment so far is the one on the talk page stating "this RfAr [the one I put up against me] is most likely going to fail" as if that would be a good thing for them. CheeseDreams 23:19, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I know that my edit's won't win me any favours. But as Winston Churchill said you've got enemies? Good, that means you had the courage to stand up for something in your life CheeseDreams 23:19, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Yes, there's something to be said for that. I have a small gang opposing me at Yasser Arafat and Ma'alot Massacre. They play the game much the same way -- chucking in an attack and then pompously writing "Don't make personal attacks" when they feel that they've been outwitted.

As for the John Kenney thing, it looks very much like he's abused the policy. As for the page, be bold and re-create it, why not? Dr Zen 00:19, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Wikiuser

Hello, CheeseDreams. Basically, 'WikiUser' is a troll. He spams people's talk pages with unformatted personal attacks, interjects himself into controversy, awards barnstars to people like Irismeister, and makes crackpot claims and psuedo-legal threats on the mailing list. I've blocked him; other people disagree, so I just try to ignore him. Check his contribs. [[User:Neutrality|Neutrality/^talk]] 23:10, Dec 4, 2004 (UTC)

Note the following

• Accusing someone of being a troll is a personal attack and violation of Wikipedia:No personal attacks.
• He has a right to choose who he wants to award barnstars to - its not up to you
• He is allowed to make claims even if you think they are Crackpot - remember NPOV, claiming he is crackpot is POV.
• Unformatted personal attacks should result in RfC or RfAr not blocking, ESPECIALLY as others disagree.
• Entering controversy is NOT a violation of wikipedia principles

If the reasons you have given above are the only justification then you have committed an abuse of adminship, and I will consider making an RfC against you for such action.

If this is the case, then I insist on you unblocking him.CheeseDreams 23:19, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

He's been unblocked for a week. [[User:Neutrality|Neutrality/^talk]] 23:48, Dec 4, 2004 (UTC)

Thank you. CheeseDreams 00:16, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

• Hi CheeseDreams. I appreciate your assistance and that, like me, you don't like to see users being discriminated against. But note that "Neutrality" is due no thanks because, as he might have made clear to you, as you asked so specifically, he did not un-block me, just posted an offensive response.

  From the Block log: 20:50, 26 Nov 2004 Mirv unblocked WikiUser (that is not a legal threat, but a complaint. In any case, legal threats are not a valid reason for blocking)

  20:25, 26 Nov 2004 Neutrality blocked WikiUser with an expiry time of infinite (Legal threats, see http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-November/032220.html.)

  06:22, 24 Nov 2004 Gentgeen unblocked WikiUser (A one month block for POV pushing is a bit extreme withouth an Arb Com ruling to back it up)

  13 Nov 2004 Neutrality blocked WikiUser (Maliciously acting in bad faith to disrupt Wikipedia)

  Sorry to see that you are being put to further trouble because of "Neutrality". What he says is untrue and just the sort of goading activity I'm concerned about. And not the sort of activity expected from a person who wants people to let him be an arbcom. They have to deal with heated disputes and should be the kind of person suitable for that.

  To cut a long story short- it's as I've said. I saw this user up for admin- I had seen that he was totally unsuitable so I voted against him, and he's been seriously hassling me ever since. Discriminating against me/misusing his position. He seems to be the only candidate removing "oppose" comment about him from the election pages. And he's also archived his page since you posted. He always does remove stuff that doesn't put him in a good light.WikiUser 17:34, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I would suggest you put together a Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration against him then. CheeseDreams 18:33, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I am considering doing that. But he's in with the committee and will probably be elected and be in with the next lot. That's how the Wikipedia works. Also it involves compiling a lot of material and I'm partially disabled. It can take me 1,2 or 3 hours to create a post like the one above and the ones I've done on the "endorsements" page. They're still calling it endorsements only- they don't want disindorments, ie no opposer's comments. They've said so. See botttom of the endorsements page.WikiUser 18:55, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Image:IsisAndHorus20BC.JPG

Hey there. Can you verify the legal status of this image? There's no license tag and the source site you list doesn't have any permissions info I can find. —Tkinias 01:29, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Try [2] at the base of the page CheeseDreams 07:08, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Hmm. That doesn't look good:

Copyright © 2004 by Kenneth Humphreys.

Copying is freely permitted, provided credit is given to the author and no material herein is sold for profit.

The noncommercial bit makes it nonfree (not GFDL compatible). —Tkinias 07:41, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

John Kenney's RfC

quote: SOMEONE HAS DELETED THE EVIDENCE - CHECK DELETION LOG [3]

What are you talking about? Give me some sort of idea, because it doesn't seem to be in page history. We're not able to delete single revisions, you know: its all or nothing. If it's on a page that was deleted, I'll undelete it immediately. As it is, I can't figure out what you're refering to and am inclined to remove this header comment and the provacative description from the RfC page. Cool Hand Luke 04:02, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The evidence that was deleted is on the page Historical reconstruction of the sort of person Jesus would be. The page was deleted by Snowspinner. CheeseDreams 06:52, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

At the time of writing it appears to have been undeleted. CheeseDreams 06:54, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I undeleted it, as I explained on the talk page. john k 07:00, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for restoring it, I think it helps show that your conduct has been reasonable. I'm surprised Snowspinner deleted it. Although turning the page into a redirect requires no consensus, the redirect should be placed on RfD or gain consensus to delete because it's not a speedy—not simple vandalism or a typo. Cool Hand Luke 07:28, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Hi! CheesDreams.

From reading the policy guidelines at "Wikipedia:Protection policy" I see he did break them. I've spent 2 hours (since I came on-line today), reading the page in question and it's history, and the RfC page. But the policy is stacked against you in typical Wikipedia fashion. It says: "In order to remain listed at Wikipedia:Requests for comment, at least two people need to show that they tried to resolve a dispute with this sysop and have failed. This must involve the same dispute, not different disputes. The persons complaining must provide evidence of their efforts,"

I haven't "tried to resolve a dispute", with him, let alone "the same dispute". So what should I do? I can only be on-line until 9.50 pm (GMT) tonight. So I can't "certify it by signing this page". I can only put a an endorsement at the bottom of that section which I have done. Have you contacted directly FT2 or anyone else involved? If you can enter an e-mail address on your preferences page, you can perhaps contact them quicker.

One thing; some of the people listed in "Users who endorse this summary": (Mackensen, Chris0, Proteus, Neutrality, Rhobite, Antandrus), shouldn't be there as the page says that section should be used: "by the sysop whose actions are disputed, or by other users who think that the dispute is unjustified and that the sysop's actions did not violate policy." They should use the Outside Comments section as he admits he did violate the policy and it's a matter of record that he did. You can take this further perhaps because the RfC page isn't fair. WikiUser 21:06, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Yes, thats a good point, Ill point that out. CheeseDreams 21:16, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

You have done what you can. You really mustn't waste 2 hours like that though, there are more interesting things to do. Thanks for your time.

It's okay, Anything I do on the computer takes me awhile. I've just edited my comment above and removed the " none of them have been involved in the editing of the page " bit. As I misunderstood the RfC rules a bit.WikiUser 21:19, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

If it takes you a while you should treasure it more. Reading someone's RfC for 2 hours isn't as good as writing an article or learning something else. Im glad you thought it worth the effor though. CheeseDreams 21:22, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Re: theophory

I couldn't find your talk page and you don't seem to accept emails, so I'm posting your reply here. The reason I removed the article request for "theophory" was that I incorporated the information you provided into the article "theophory", which is currently a stub. You and anyone else is welcome to edit and add to the article however you wish. Once "theophory" became an active link, it could be removed. I hope this clears up the confusion. DavidA 17:09 6 December 2004 (UTC)

Yes, that does explain it. I was concerned by the edit summary "n/a". Thanks. CheeseDreams 20:28, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

You're most welcome. I use "n/a" when I'm removing active links to designate now active; it saves space. DavidA 23:33, 6 December 2004 (UTC)

Ah, right. The standard UK usage of "n/a" is not applicable. CheeseDreams 19:08, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Category:Bible stories

Why have you recreated a just deleted category? Isn't it against the deletion/undeletion policy? -- Naive cynic 00:20, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The category actually survived the Category for Deletion vote. Deleting it was therefore against policy. CheeseDreams 00:32, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Hi! I saw this note about you:

"Bible stories Was this category deleted? I tried to figure it out and am confused. But if it was, you should check out what User:CheeseDreams has been up to. Slrubenstein 21:23, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)"

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Neutrality"WikiUser 21:35, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Thanks. CheeseDreams 21:42, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The Humungous Image Tagging Project

Hi. You've helped with the Wikipedia:WikiProject Wiki Syntax, so I thought it worth alerting you to the latest and greatest of Wikipedia fixing project, User:Yann/Untagged Images, which is seeking to put copyright tags on all of the untagged images. There are probably, oh, thirty thousand or so to do (he said, reaching into the air for a large figure). But hey: they're images ... you'll get to see lots of random pretty pictures. That must be better than looking for at at and the the, non? You know you'll love it. best wishes --Tagishsimon (talk)

RFC pages

I'm considering removing these pages from VfD as an administrator action. We don't (or at least shouldn't) remove RFC pages of users from Wikipedia. I'm going to consult with some other admins to see what they have to say. - Ta bu shi da yu 03:09, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I said this on Ta bu shi da yu's talk page:

I'm not a policy maven. This is just my opinion.

a) The RFC pages shouldn't be removed. Generally speaking, anything that's a record of past controversies is important. I sympathize with Cheesedreams, but I'm afraid that if one is working in controversial areas, getting flamed goes with the territory. In reality, the likelihood is that nobody other than the people involved in the controversy know or care about the existence of these pages will ever read them.

b) The VfD listings shouldn't be removed, either. I am very much opposed to removing items from VfD on the grounds that they "shouldn't have been listed." Once they've been listed, let the discussion proceed openly and let the string of "keeps" tell the story. A strong remark that the discussion does not need to continue would be fine. Also, personal attention to moving the article to /Old immediately when the five days are up would be fine, too. If a custom of removing items from VfD becomes prevalent, we will soon need to develop all sorts of metapolicy, pages for voting on whether items should be relisted on VfD, etc. etc.

Just my $0.02. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 13:18, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I have removed. See the overwhelming support for this on WP:AN. I'd advise you don't list them again. - Ta bu shi da yu 22:54, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

See the ban you recieved for producing the issue on WP:AN. Cheesedreams 22:24, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Article Licensing

Hi, I've started a drive to get users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) v1.0 and v2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the top 2000 Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:

• Multi-Licensing FAQ - Lots of questions answered
• Multi-Licensing Guide
• Free the Rambot Articles Project

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" template into their user page, but there are other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:

Option 1

I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:

{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}

OR

Option 2

I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions to any [[U.S. state]], county, or city article as described below:

{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" with "{{MultiLicensePD}}". If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know what you think at my talk page. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. -- Ram-Man (comment| talk)

Your statement on arbitration page

The arbitration request regarding you has been accepted. As the complaint is quite confusing and your responses are scattered, please goto Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/CheeseDreams#Statement_by_affected_party and make a response to the complaint. You had created arbitration cases and evidence pages for your prior request and I used the space for this case. The prior material remains in history for reference. Fred Bauder 00:15, Dec 11, 2004 (UTC)

What you put in your statement contains statements signed by other parties. If they wish to make statements they should do it in a separate section. Please remove all statements you are not making yourself. For your information, your presentation is very poor and unlikely to be seriously considered by the arbitrators due to its rambling, disorganized nature. Fred Bauder 16:58, Dec 11, 2004 (UTC)

I wish to make the statements that they made the statements.

Shouldn't it be considered in whatever form it is? To go oh this evidence is ugly is highly POV, and inappropriate for an arbitrator. Cheesedreams 22:20, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

P.s. I may tidy it up at some point, but there are other things I consider more important, so I might not. Cheesedreams 22:23, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

24-hour block

The reason Neutrality gave for blocking you is Recreated and repopulated Category:Bible stories in disregard for community consensus at Wikipedia:Categories for deletion. Made NO attempt to discuss why he was recreating the category. If you want me to look into the situation, it would be helpful if you were to explain what led up to your blocking in your words. Andre (talk) 00:42, Dec 11, 2004 (UTC)

I blocked you for 24 hours because you had twice recreated and repopulated a category in which the consensus to delete was establish through CfD. It is regrettable that I had to do this, and I take no joy in blocking you. However, I feel that you must understand that you cannot simply recreate categories that have been legitimately deleted without comment. I hope when you return from your block you keep this in mind. Warmest regards --[[User:Neutrality|Neutrality/^talk]] 02:06, Dec 11, 2004 (UTC)

you take no joy..., I'm sorry, I don't believe you.

According to Aranel's counting of the votes, it needed 80% to delete. According to Aranel that required her vote. According to Aranel she did not give it. Therefore it failed to meet consensus to delete.

P.s. I believe you have to unblock me in 30 minutes. Cheesedreams 22:15, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Under what rule did you block this user?WikiUser 19:56, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Users should note the following. The page "Wikipedia:Blocking policy" - which we users should be able to rely on to know what we can and can't do-, is not really valid. As, if you check you will see that it is - although listed under the category; "Articles in category "Wikipedia official policy"" - being edited by admins and anonymous editors. UninvitedCompany has recently done an edit which makes an important change to the policy. Who asked for this change? Admins should not control the entire Wikipedia in this way, but obey rules they're given. They've volunteered to help the users of this noticeboard not lord it over them.

Even as the page stands I don't see any justification for "Neutrality" to block CheeseDreams, on it. He should also block himself, as it says: "According to our username policy, inflammatory, deliberately confusing, and other inappropriate usernames are not allowed, and in certain circumstances, sysops may block accounts with such usernames." He must know his name is confusing to people. For one thing users have told him it is.WikiUser 20:22, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Regardless of what Aranel said, I think that there is a clear consensus to delete that category, based on its VfD. However, recreating the page is not the proper way to challenge it, and would deserve a block under the blocking policy (being disruptive). As for Neutrality, his name is fine by me and fine to most others - Tony Sidaway kindly provided me with this link on the matter. Andre (talk) 03:50, Dec 12, 2004 (UTC)

Exactly how is adding a category to a series of articles disruptive? CheeseDreams 13:51, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Category:Bible stories

This category was, according to consensus at Wikipedia:Categories for deletion, deleted. You recreated it. It was deleted again. You recreated it again.

Note that, according to Wikipedia:Candidates for speedy deletion, articles that have been deleted according to deletion policy and have been recreated are candidates for speedy deletion. It isn't immediately clear whether this point applies to categories (I don't believe it has been tested), but it covers a comparable situation.

As it currently stands, there is a consensus to delete. If you disagree with the counting of the votes, that can be discussed, but please do not continue to recreate and repopulate the category without discussion. Wikipedia:Votes for undeletion might be a good place to bring this up, since there doesn't seem to be a clear category undeletion process. -[[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 01:39, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

According to your counting of the votes, it needed 80% to delete. According to you that required your vote. According to you you did not give it. Therefore it failed to meet consensus to delete. Cheesedreams 22:12, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

An 80% agreement is not required to delete. The commonly-used figure is 2/3, or 67%. With my vote, there would be a 2/3 majority to delete. However, with rename votes included (note that categories cannot be moved or redirected, so the only way to rename is to create a new category and delete the old one), the total is 80%, which is over the standard level for consensus to delete by a substantial margin, whether I vote or not.

I will assume that you previous recreations of the category were the result of confusion regarding the margin for consensus. But please, do not recreate it again. Even if it were deleted out of process (and I do not believe it has been), the correct place for discussion would be Votes for undeletion. -[[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 00:32, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

According to wikipedia deletion policy, votes to rename DO NOT COUNT. Discussions about renaming must occur on the talk page, not CfD. CheeseDreams 10:33, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Condolences

I see you're trying to get your RfC requests deleted and the cabal won't let you. That's awfully dickheaded of them.

The thing about Wikipedia is that there's a powerful faction of people (the admins in the cabal) who may not have the same opinions on all matters, but they've formed a coalition and work to push their POV and Policy viewpoints. It's really detrimental to the community. (Err: What am I saying? There is no community here.)

Regarding your early 3RR spat: in my mind, the 3RR as written sucks. To apply it to each person is junk science, because there are so many undiagnosed sock puppets on this thing, even among established, powerful users. I'd bet that 90% of the "popular kids" in the cabal have 2-3 accounts for back-up. If they use their socks mostly on different topics, they'll never get found out and anyone who detects the sockitude will be silenced by fear of retribution. I caught several sock-puppets last year when I was on, but didn't say anything (also, I really don't care that much; I'm just saying that it invalidates the 3RR as stated.)

The only way to make 3RR in any way reasonable is to apply it to each side of an argument; the illusion of multiple people is just too easy to manufacture.

At any rate, I'm offering my condolences, and wishing you good luck. It's sick that people here just refuse to forget any history; they're so punitive they must be jaundiced. Hopefully it'll be in you still to fight the good fight; I know it's in me. I left Wikipedia in 2003 under a different name because of incivility on the forum; it's five times worse now that I'm back but, luckily, I haven't had any directed at me yet. I figure that if I edit reasonably for a year, and don't step on any toes, then I can state a case to these people. Not all of them are pricks.

Regards,

EventHorizon 06:53, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Dear CheeseDreams

I haven't been much on Wikipedia, but I can see that you are so full of anger and frustration. You want to rewrite the history of Christianity in your own way, but you know that Wikipedia is a NPOV project. Please create a wiki of your own. There you may write a whole new history of Christianity, where you are the supreme god yourself. Please stop pestering other users here! God isn't pleased with your actions! You abuse other users verbally, use foul language and post heretical views... QUI BONO? Lady Tara 11:26, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

See Hypocrisy, Vanity, Petty, False and Arrogance Cheesedreams 13:56, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

P.s. Heresy is in the eye of the beholder. Cheesedreams 13:56, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

P.P.S. your comments claiming my views are heresy are not NPOV, and evidence your own POV campaign. Cheesedreams 13:57, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Dear CheeseSqueeze, look up the articles on Hypocrisy, Vanity, Petty, False and Arrogance. You seem to be misinformed, honey! :-D Lady Tara 17:53, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Misinformed about what? I did not state they referred to or implied anything, merely that they should be seen. If you think they imply something about you, or that they can be seen as such, then that says something about you, and about your own opinion of you. Think. Cheesedreams 19:10, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

This psycho jibberish does NOT become you! Why do you hurt people here on Wikipedia? Why are you so full of hatred and bitterness? Didn't your parents (poor people) love you? Is your soul just a big black hole, and why do you have to fill that huge void with hatred? I truly pity you! You belong to the refuse of this world! Lady Tara 14:50, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)