Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Kalākaua's 1874–75 state visit to the United States/archive1

Kalākaua's 1874–75 state visit to the United States

Kalākaua's 1874–75 state visit to the United States (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

• Featured article candidates/Kalākaua's 1874–75 state visit to the United States/archive1

Nominator(s):KAVEBEAR, — Maile (talk) 16:06, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

This article is about one of the events leading to the overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii. KAVEBEAR suggested a "start article" for DYK to commemorate the November 17 anniversary of the trip. In research, as with all things related to Kalākaua, the subject matter took on a life of its own. As KAVEBEAR might be tied up off-wiki, I'll be the main respondent here.

The king himself is one of the most fascinating and multi-faceted subjects I've researched. Who knew (I didn't) – that the 19th century public collected autograph books, and that celebrities of that era handed out autographed photographs. This guy was a professional at handling the public and politicians. In many places he visited, either a private entity or a government entity picked up the financial tab for his expenses. US office holders fell all over themselves to accommodate him.

At home in Hawaii, he was like a lot of 21st century politicians, spending obscene amounts of money on his pet projects, and choosing enablers for cabinet posts. And as noted in his bio article Kalākaua, he did much to revive Hawaiian culture from near-extinction. — Maile (talk) 16:06, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Quick comment

you should check the date formatting for spaces (December 5–11, 1874) and (December 12 – 22, 1874) are the two different ones you use throughout. I will make time for a proper review shortly. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 16:24, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

I'm actually surprised that I didn't notice that, and that the error exists. Because I routinely run the User:GregU/dashes.js tool, and it didn't flag those at all. But I'll check more thoroughly. Thanks for bringing up. — Maile (talk) 16:33, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

I just did a run-through, sentence by sentence. As far as I can tell, the inconsistency was confined to the section headings. If I missed anything, please let me know.— Maile (talk) 17:32, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Comments by Wehwalt

Just looking at the lede, so far. Mostly phrasing or word choices.

• "King Kalākaua's 91-day journey across the breadth of the United States began on November 17, 1874. " I'm not sure about "breadth". The difficulty is that he did it twice, back and forth, which is hard to express. I might try something like " ... journey across the United States, and back again, began on ..."

• Done

• I might move what made this visit distinctive from the second paragraph to the first, and relegate K's personal details to paragraph 2.

• Done, if I understand you on this one.

• "he had previously been to California and Canada with Prince Lot in 1860, as a 23-year-old government bureaucrat" I'd lose the comma.

• Done

• "His trip to Washington, D.C. established two diplomatic benchmarks." I might conclude (after D.C.) "saw two diplomatic firsts." Maybe a colon rather than the period but I can see both sides on that.

• Done

• "One was the United States Congress holding their first joint meeting in the body's history, less formal than a joint session, specifically for an audience with him." An audience with him is him receiving them, rather than the other way around as was the case. I would make the final clause "specifically to receive him."

• Done

• "Washington D.C." or "Washington, D.C."? You are not consistent.

• Excellent catch - fixed all with the comma.

• "to secure an agreement to provide tax relief for its sugar planters," I would frame it as "to seek the elimination of tariffs on the islands' sugar cane" or similar. It should not be framed as a tax.

• Done

• "ailing" perhaps "ill".

• Done

• " the king abided the relentless attention," I might put a "patiently" or "with patience" in there. Abided by itself doesn't say as much.

• Done

• "Anticipation had grown so strong by the time he reached Washington D.C., that spectators gathered on rooftops to watch him pass by. At Niagara Falls, New York, people waited for hours in frigid temperatures just for a glimpse." The lede is a summary. Do we need two examples?

• Removed the second one.

• "The treaty, however, became a link in a chain of events that led to the overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii in 1893." I would cast this something like "The resultant close economic ties between islands and mainland became a major factor leading to the overthrow of the ..".

• Agree, and changed accordingly

• Actually, I made a little change. In 1874-75 "mainland" was not a term used in 19th century sources, since Hawaii was an independent kingdom. I changed it to United States.

More soon.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:43, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Image review

• Don't use fixed px size

Removed fixed px

• Suggest adding alt text

Alt text added to all

• File:Kalakaua_state_visit_to_Washington,_colored_engraving_(cropped).jpg: when/where was this first published?

First published Frank Leslie's Illustrated Newspaper, 1875; newspaper did not credit the artist

• File:Kalakaua_and_Reciprocity_Commission_(PP-96-13-03).jpg: what was the author's date of death?

Added to the Commons file description. Photographer partner company, both died before 1900

• File:CALIFORNIA_–_KING_KALAKAUA_AND_SUITE,_UNDER_ESCORT_OF_MAYOR_OTIS_AND_STAFF,_VIEWING_THE_SEALS_FROM_THE_CLIFF_HOUSE,_SAN_FRANCISCO._SKETCHED_BY_E._BEDFORD_GREY.jpg needs an author date of death and a US PD tag. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:43, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

KAVEBEAR I don't have the answer to death date for E. Bedford Grey. Can you find anything? — Maile (talk) 23:22, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

I do not know. The only other place with information about this image is [1] and it doesn’t give Grey’s lifespan. Gonna ask our friends at the humanity desk to see what they can find. KAVEBEAR (talk) 01:56, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Two very brief comments from me:

• "in the fall of 1860" WP:SEASON suggests not using fall – late 1860, perhaps?

Changed per your suggestion.

• The addition of a map showing the route would help.

KAVEBEAR I've put a map request on the article's talk page. I've never requested a map before, so anything you can add there would be fine with me. — Maile (talk) 21:27, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 18:53, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

MOD

King Kalākaua's 91-day journey across the United States, and back again, began on November 17, 1874. On this state visit, the Hawaiian King made history as the first reigning monarch to visit the United States. His trip to Washington, D.C. saw two diplomatic firsts: one was the United States Congress holding their first joint meeting in the body's history, less formal than a joint session, specifically to receive him; the second was President Ulysses S. Grant hosting him as honoree of the first state dinner at the White House.

Three sentences. 6 commas, one colon and one semi-colon. It's a little choppy, isn't it? Could the third sentence be broken up? --MarchOrDie (talk) 13:53, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Wehwalt This user is referring to a thread he started on the article talk page, where you will find exactly what sentences he is talking about. I changed this originally because of your comments above. This user is suggesting something else. Will you please comment here. Personally, Wehwalt, I would prefer to go along with your suggestions because of your extensive FAC experience. But let's see what you have to say about it. Thanks. — Maile (talk) 13:57, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

And for the record, this was the original. This is a featured article review, and I don't want to keep flipping back and forth when a change is made, and somebody doesn't like it. — Maile (talk) 14:12, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

"On the 1874–75 state visit, he made history as the first reigning monarch to visit the United States. His trip to Washington, D.C. established two diplomatic benchmarks. One was the United States Congress holding their first joint meeting in the body's history, less formal than a joint session, specifically for an audience with him. The second was President Ulysses S. Grant hosting him as honoree of the first state dinner at the White House."

• Just chipping in on this, prior to my review proper. I agree that the lead is a little choppy too, and could be smoothed out a little - the first sentence and a half (at least) could be restructured slightly (avoiding "on this state visit", which begs the question of how many others he took). I'll give an suggestion of an opening line that you can look at (and reject if you feel like it). - SchroCat (talk) 15:00, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

How about:

King Kalākaua, the Hawaiian monarch, undertook a 91-day state visit across the United States and back again. Kalākaua's journey began on November 14, 1874 and lasted until February 15, 1875; he was the first reigning monarch to visit the US. During his stay in Washington, D.C., the United States Congress held their first joint meeting in the body's history specifically to receive him, and President Ulysses S. Grant hosted him as honoree of the first state dinner at the White House.

Read any better? - SchroCat (talk) 15:09, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Quite frankly, I like it better the way I had it the first time, acceptable with suggestions by Wehwalt. I went through this with my first FAC, in the opposite. Someone complained my sentences were too short. And sometimes (if not always), that's a subjective view depending on which side of the Atlantic one sits. Americans generally write with more brevity in a sentence. Let's go with what will get this to FAC and makes me happy at the same time. My money is on Wehwalt's version.— Maile (talk) 16:42, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Your third sentence is 54 words, which isn't what I would call "brevity"; my version is 41 words. The first two sentences are within a few words of each other, and remove the very awkward opening to the second sentence that I outlined above: "on this state visit", which suggests you're about to describe it in relation to others. Your call. Mine is only a suggestion as to how to make the opening pathway smoother, but however it goes you need to do something about "that" state visit, and not to have three "first"s and a "second" in the third sentence. - SchroCat (talk) 16:53, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with your changes though I might clarify what "began" means: is that the date of arrival in San Francisco? Sorry I haven't gotten back have had very little time.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:25, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Wehwalt "began on November 17, 1874" is the date he walked out his front door and joined his advisors on the ship out of Honolulu Harbor. Interesting thought, though. When the news media says, "...Queen Elisabeth began her state visit today .." would they be referring to her ceremonial send-off at the airport? — Maile (talk) 21:01, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

I don't think a visit of any sort starts until arrival. If I visit, say, Italy, my visit does not include the flight there.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:39, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Well, I changed the date to the day he arrived in San Francisco.— Maile (talk) 22:09, 24 November 2018 (UTC)