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:: If concerns are undue weight, we just make it clear in the article, that its not the majority view and include it. I believe the commonly accepted interpretation is its named after the Ogaden clan. This source is an important contribution that actually goes in depth on the possible origins. Do you agree with ''"The origin of the term Ogaden is commonly attributed to the Somali Ogaden clan who dominant the region however some informants claim its a combination of Harari words Uga and Aden meaning road to aden due to its important trade link between Harar and Arabia for centuries"''. This oxford source claims its named after Ogaden clan [https://books.google.ca/books?id=KYmMCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA36&dq=ogaden+named+after+ogaden+clan&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi39ZeX84LhAhWNoYMKHXW_DawQ6AEINjAC#v=onepage&q=ogaden%20named%20after%20ogaden%20clan&f=false] hence looks to be majority view but its meaning is not mentioned again. I think the mentioning of informants should suffice, if you're worried about it being mistaken for the authors view. [[User:Lokiszm7|Lokiszm7]] ([[User talk:Lokiszm7|talk]]) 00:39, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
:: If concerns are undue weight, we just make it clear in the article, that its not the majority view and include it. I believe the commonly accepted interpretation is its named after the Ogaden clan. This source is an important contribution that actually goes in depth on the possible origins. Do you agree with ''"The origin of the term Ogaden is commonly attributed to the Somali Ogaden clan who dominant the region however some informants claim its a combination of Harari words Uga and Aden meaning road to aden due to its important trade link between Harar and Arabia for centuries"''. This oxford source claims its named after Ogaden clan [https://books.google.ca/books?id=KYmMCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA36&dq=ogaden+named+after+ogaden+clan&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi39ZeX84LhAhWNoYMKHXW_DawQ6AEINjAC#v=onepage&q=ogaden%20named%20after%20ogaden%20clan&f=false] hence looks to be majority view but its meaning is not mentioned again. I think the mentioning of informants should suffice, if you're worried about it being mistaken for the authors view. [[User:Lokiszm7|Lokiszm7]] ([[User talk:Lokiszm7|talk]]) 00:39, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
:::The problem is that it is presented in the text as a minority view, one that the author himself is not sure of, which is why adding it is problematic. There is no need to have an etymology section if whats presented is based on information supplied by informants from a single source, and not multiple, high-quality, reliable sources. If the interpretation is to be added at all then his explicit statement about there not being a clear agreement on the origin is important. On a separate note, this article seems like a duplicate of [[Somali Region]]. It is probably worth considering a merger of the two as they relate to the same geographic area. This also avoids any confusion caused by the naming conventions. --[[User:Kzl55|Kzl55]] ([[User talk:Kzl55|talk]]) 01:04, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
:::The problem is that it is presented in the text as a minority view, one that the author himself is not sure of, which is why adding it is problematic. There is no need to have an etymology section if whats presented is based on information supplied by informants from a single source, and not multiple, high-quality, reliable sources. If the interpretation is to be added at all then his explicit statement about there not being a clear agreement on the origin is important. On a separate note, this article seems like a duplicate of [[Somali Region]]. It is probably worth considering a merger of the two as they relate to the same geographic area. This also avoids any confusion caused by the naming conventions. --[[User:Kzl55|Kzl55]] ([[User talk:Kzl55|talk]]) 01:04, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
::::Aside from the Oxford source, there's one from Springer, this too claims it takes its name from Ogaden clan [https://books.google.ca/books?id=BfipBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA324&dq=ogaden+name&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjGlN-CkYPhAhWnna0KHVlXBFkQ6AEIMDAB#v=onepage&q=ogaden%20name&f=false], which indicates there are multiple sources thus warranting an etymology section, another user had also requested etymology for ogaden just above us. From your response, it seems you need it to say ''"there's no clear agreement"'' which is fine with me. What about rephrasing in the following: ''"The origin of the term Ogaden is unknown however its commonly attributed to the Somali Ogaden clan of the same name. Other informants claim its a combination of Harari words Uga and Aden meaning road to aden due to its important trade link between Harar and Arabia for centuries". [[User:Lokiszm7|Lokiszm7]] ([[User talk:Lokiszm7|talk]]) 02:59, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Revision as of 02:59, 15 March 2019

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Ahmad Gurey

The article about Ahmad ibn Ibrihim al-Ghazi (Ahmad Gurey or Ahmad Gragn) says he was from Zeila and does not mention Ogaden at all. (Also, the Akisho, Gadabuursi, and Leelkase articles each claim he was from those respective Somali clans). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 21:28, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

truthfully he is from akisho clan of gadobursi while i am from bahgari of ogaden sub clan — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.155.64.150 (talk) 17:06, 12 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ogaden?

Why is "Ogaden" spelled "Ogadēn" in this article? There has been no discussion on this talk page about this style? Is there a good reason to replace the more common English form with this variant that apparently reflects local pronounciation? -- llywrch 04:39, 26 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Don't know. Sesel changed it back in May without an edit summary. - BanyanTree 13:03, 26 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I was wondering about this too, because I've seen a number of maps where the name is spelled "Ogadēn". This one is from the World Factbook and uses the "ē" spelling (though it is hard to discern). I have another map at home with this spelling. If this is the correct spelling then perhaps a page move is warranted (easy enough to do, but thought I'd bring it up first). Also I'm not sure if the same spelling issue applies to Ogaden people. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 17:06, 26 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm admit to a bias of avoiding accents, diacritics & other fancy add-ons to letters in names, unless this usage can be shown to be fairly common. This is because I've struggled thru more than my share of scholarly works pedantic correctness has unnecessarily kept me from recognizing the familiar names of people & places. Would anyone take issue if we just moved this back to "Ogaden" & added a note in the introduction about its proper pronounciation? -- llywrch 21:00, 26 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Nope. A tweak for readibility with a note about the technically proper pronunciation sounds just about right. Cheers, BanyanTree 22:01, 26 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]


No objection. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 14:58, 27 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I've gone ahead & changed it -- & I'm guessing at the pronounciation, so if someone knows it better please fix. I also changed the spelling of some of the towns listed in the article to agree with other links. -- llywrch 17:37, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

History before Europeans

Would somebody like to fill in what the history of the region was before the British Colonial office starting writing its version? I apologize for my assumption that it was either part of the ottoman or egyptian empire and that these empires probably collected tribute as the extent of their control. Glad I was corrected but would like to see more.

  • Walashma dynasty?
  • Adal sultanates ?

I am obviously clueless. --Rcollman 00:37, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Other clans

I am on my third revert in 24 hours regarding the following sentence: "The fact that some Somalis call the entire Somali region of Ethiopia 'Ogadenia' is a cause of much friction in the region, because other clans have a significant presence in the area." The sentence previously listed the names of other clans in the area, but the cited source did not actually mention these clans by name (link). Thus I removed the names of the clans, having seen previous edit wars over which clan resides in a particular place. Anonymous editors (different IP addresses, but same ISP) keep restoring the clan names (and as the IP keeps changing, I'm not sure the editor is seeing my "User Talk" messages, or whether it's the same editor). As I am already on my third revert, I will not remove the unattributed information should it reappear. Instead I propose adding {{Failed verification}} to the sentence. Furthermore the source in question is an opinion piece, perhaps not the best choice of reliable source in the first place. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 00:24, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

On second thought, I'm not too worried about three reverts, given that I'm removing unattributed information (still, I'd rather avoid an edit war). I have added another source (link) but it doesn't specify the other clans, either. Also this article did not mention that there is a clan called Ogaden, so the sentence in question was lacking context. I have addressed this, as well. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 00:38, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

February 2008 edits

An anonymous editor is repeatedly changing the attributed text in the article. To date I have blocked 4 different IP addresses (3 with the same ISP, all 4 in Saudi Arabia). I am asking the editor(s) to cite additional sources if they believe the existing ones are incomplete. Otherwise, if the edit pattern continues then I propose semi-protection for the article. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 03:13, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The anonymous edits continue to appear from new IP addresses. I am protecting the article for a week, in hopes that the editor(s) involved might use the talk page to discuss what they're trying to do. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 19:20, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Semi protection time

I'd definitely reccommend a semi-protection on this article. Too often we've got people without the guts to register and stand by their comments, who use poor English and have no idea about NPOV. Mdw0 (talk) 04:56, 5 January 2009 (UTC) [reply]

Ogaden infobox

User:GuledCasowe added a map and infobox (with Somali Region's flag) to the article, identifying Ogaden in such a way that it appears synonymous/contiguous coextensive with Somali Region. I didn't think this was the case, though. I thought the region was (slightly) bigger than Ogaden itself. (Kind of like how Holland is not the entire Netherlands; Russia was not the entire Soviet Union etc.) -- Gyrofrog (talk) 03:16, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've replaced {{Infobox Province in Ethiopia}} with {{Infobox settlement}} (though I wonder if {{Geobox}} might be better). I'm not aware that Ogaden has ever been an official administrative division (e.g. a Province or a Region), but {{Infobox Province in Ethiopia}} uses map and flag defaults that assume this is the case. Furthermore, I don't believe that Ogaden is synonymous, or coextensive, with the Somali Region (for example, Haud is also part of the Somali Region). Thus, I also don't see how Ogaden has a capital or established boundaries. I'm not sure what to specify for | subdivision_type= in the infobox, as it isn't (officially) a state, region, province, district etc. so I used "Region (non-administrative)" for now. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 17:39, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
See also this news story which says "Ogaden is a territory in the southeast of the Somali Region in Ethiopia." (In other words, not coextensive with the entire region.) -- Gyrofrog (talk) 15:48, 13 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Concerning about the Map of Ogaden

Hello The Ogaden comprises the biggest portion of Somali Region. The Somali Region consists of 9 provinces, which 5 were part of Ogaden Raz Gez, a Province in the Derg Regime, the other four zones were not part of Ogaden Province during Haile Sellasie and Mengiustu Haile Mariam. on the other hand. yes the map is the same, but am looking for the correct map of Ogaden in the near future. For some reason Ogaden is currently synonymous to Somali Region, even the Hard Liners Ogaden Rebel Group claim Harar and Awasa as part of Ogaden.

On the other hand, the new census, which was undertaken in 2007, although it is not official predicts that almost an estimated 2,300,000 people live in the Districts that Ogaden's inhabit. Note that the Somali region consists of 52 districts with varying population number. Largest number of people, as the census says, live districts not inhabited by Ogaden. There's some reason because, census staff didn't go the Ogaden districts due to insecurity issue. So still the census is contested, but I took the number by adding all the districts that inhabited by Ogaden, minus those districts that other clans co-inhabit with Ogaden.— Preceding unsigned comment added by GuledCasowe (talkcontribs) 04:06, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Concerning about the Flag of Ogaden

Concerning the issue of the flag, I may use strong argument. First the Ogaden is without a doubt part of Somali region, it never had its own flag before the ethnic federelism is enshrined in the FDRE Constitution. The Region, whether Somali Region or Ogaden, has now its autonomous adminstration. It has its own parliament with freely elected Peoples representatives. Among 186 members of the regional parliamnent, 111 are from Ogaden. These members, on behalf of their constituency, have ratified this flag to represent the region.

On the other hand, Since Ogaden and Somali Region is inseparable to each other, only we should respect what people on the ground have opted. This flag is now over all the area you name as Ogaden. Its also shows the Ogaden Culture (Camel), ethnicity (bright) and Ethiopian nationality (Red, Yellow, Green)— Preceding unsigned comment added by GuledCasowe (talkcontribs) 04:22, 21 January 2011‎

vocabulary

It seems to me unnecessary to use rare words like "irredentists" for a general use encyclopedia.90.3.84.127 (talk) 06:35, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Ogaden/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

please what i wont to talk is the name of ogaden area this is a somali region where everclian of somali leave how it could name ogaden?who named for ogaden?and when it was?

Last edited at 19:23, 7 July 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 01:43, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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Etymology

To add to article: an etymology of the word "Ogaden." 76.189.141.37 (talk) 00:21, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Etymology

Hello User:Kzl55, you removed a well cited section without any offer for solution, several times [1] We can add the many interpretations in the article about its meaning. I'll let you pitch the sentence for the etymology line here, please post how you think the line should be in that section. We can not however exclude anything, we dont like. The reference from what I read also says its based on the Ogaden Somali clan without going into what it means, we can add that as well if you like. Lokiszm7 (talk) 23:35, 14 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Its not about exclusion, but more about misrepresentation of the source and giving undue weight to a minority view. The source explicitly states: "there is no clear agreement as to the origin of the term Ogaden...". Moreover, it states that this is just the opinion of informants and not that of the author. Furthermore, the author states "... what is commonly accepted by many, however..." suggesting that the aforementioned view is not commonly accepted by many. That particular interpretation also does not seem to appear anywhere else. As such I suggest holding off and finding more appropriate reliable sources for inclusion. Kzl55 (talk) 00:05, 15 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If concerns are undue weight, we just make it clear in the article, that its not the majority view and include it. I believe the commonly accepted interpretation is its named after the Ogaden clan. This source is an important contribution that actually goes in depth on the possible origins. Do you agree with "The origin of the term Ogaden is commonly attributed to the Somali Ogaden clan who dominant the region however some informants claim its a combination of Harari words Uga and Aden meaning road to aden due to its important trade link between Harar and Arabia for centuries". This oxford source claims its named after Ogaden clan [2] hence looks to be majority view but its meaning is not mentioned again. I think the mentioning of informants should suffice, if you're worried about it being mistaken for the authors view. Lokiszm7 (talk) 00:39, 15 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that it is presented in the text as a minority view, one that the author himself is not sure of, which is why adding it is problematic. There is no need to have an etymology section if whats presented is based on information supplied by informants from a single source, and not multiple, high-quality, reliable sources. If the interpretation is to be added at all then his explicit statement about there not being a clear agreement on the origin is important. On a separate note, this article seems like a duplicate of Somali Region. It is probably worth considering a merger of the two as they relate to the same geographic area. This also avoids any confusion caused by the naming conventions. --Kzl55 (talk) 01:04, 15 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Aside from the Oxford source, there's one from Springer, this too claims it takes its name from Ogaden clan [3], which indicates there are multiple sources thus warranting an etymology section, another user had also requested etymology for ogaden just above us. From your response, it seems you need it to say "there's no clear agreement" which is fine with me. What about rephrasing in the following: "The origin of the term Ogaden is unknown however its commonly attributed to the Somali Ogaden clan of the same name. Other informants claim its a combination of Harari words Uga and Aden meaning road to aden due to its important trade link between Harar and Arabia for centuries". Lokiszm7 (talk) 02:59, 15 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]