Wikipedia talk:Twinkle

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Watchlist expiry default options

I've just pushed some code that should enable the new watchlist expiry coming next week. What I wanted to ask, however, was whether or not some of the defaults should change. Here are the current unchanged defaults:

• ARV: Add sockpuppet report pages to watchlist (indefinitely)
• Image: Add image page to watchlist when tagging (follow site preferences)
• Image: Add user talk page of initial uploader to watchlist when notifying (follow site preferences)
• PROD: Add article to watchlist when tagging (indefinitely)
• Rollback/revert: When reverting a page, how long to watch it for (indefinitely)
• CSD: When tagging a page, how long to watch it for (indefinitely)
• Tag: Add page to watchlist when tagging (indefinitely)
• Tag: Add talk pages to watchlist when starting merge discussions (indefinitely)
• Warn: Add user talk page to watchlist when notifying (indefinitely)
• Welcome: Add user talk pages to watchlist when welcoming (indefinitely)
• XFD: Add the nominated page to watchlist (follow site preferences)
• XFD: Add the deletion discussion page to watchlist (follow site preferences)
• XFD: Add the daily log/list page to the watchlist (where applicable) (no)
• XFD: Add user talk page of initial contributor to watchlist (when notifying) (follow site preferences)
• XFD: Add the redirect's target page to watchlist (when notifying) (follow site preferences)

At the moment, Twinkle will use expiry options of 1 week, 1 month, 3 months, and 6 months. Should any of these be changed to one of those values? In particular I can see PROD, XfD, and CSD making liberal use of them, but what do people think? ~ Amory (u • t • c) 19:15, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

There's also a suggestion I've made to add options to the rpp/pp module to watch requested pages, watch tagged pages, and (for sysops) watch protected pages. What would folks think those should be set to? ~ Amory (u • t • c) 19:30, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

I would probably favor 1 month for XFDs, maybe 1 month for PROD and delayed CSDs, and 1 week for immediate CSDs. I think these maximize the likelihood someone will see a relisting or recreation. I'm not sure if the split on CSDs is practical.

For page protections, it would be cool for the default watch time to be protection length + a week or something.

These thoughts might be generalized to: "watch until a week or so after when follow-up activity is most-likely to occur". --Izno (talk) 19:51, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

The CSD split is, indeed, not practical, but 1 month for all ain't gonna hurt much. 1 month/1 month/1 week was roughly what I figured, but you've a good point on the delayed ones. I'm intrigued by your idea for protections, maybe I'll mull that down the line. Of course, indefinite protections are least likely to need indefinite watching... ~ Amory (u • t • c) 20:48, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

I've suggested that editors be allowed to change their default expiry periods in general. (We currently have only "add forever" and "don't add".) Any solution for Twinkle might bear in mind the possibility of something like this being implemented. Certes (talk) 20:11, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

As a user, I'd expect "follow site preferences" to do just that. Might require work down the line, but will cross that bridge if/when we get there. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 20:49, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

So would I. The problem is that the site preference can only be set to "don't watch" or "forever", and there are no plans to change that (it was omitted from the implementation that's about to be rolled out). Certes (talk) 21:43, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

I can't decide whether vandal reverters would prefer a shorter default watch period for rollback/revert... ~ Amory (u • t • c) 20:51, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Proposed changes to default watchlist behavior

I'd like to propose some simplistic changes to the defaults above, basically moving most watchlist defaults to 1 month. There's been minimal input, so I'm wary of messing folks up too much, but I think something'd be welcome and helpful. The changes are in bold below:

• ARV: Add sockpuppet report pages to watchlist (indefinitely)
• Image: Add image page to watchlist when tagging (1 month, not follow site preferences)
• Image: Add user talk page of initial uploader to watchlist when notifying (1 month, not follow site preferences)
• PROD: Add article to watchlist when tagging (1 month, not indefinitely)
• Rollback/revert: When reverting a page, how long to watch it for (1 month, not indefinitely)
• CSD: When tagging a page, how long to watch it for (1 month, not indefinitely)
• Tag: Add page to watchlist when tagging (1 month, not indefinitely)
• Tag: Add talk pages to watchlist when starting merge discussions (1 month, not indefinitely)
• Warn: Add user talk page to watchlist when notifying (1 month, not indefinitely)
• Welcome: Add user talk pages to watchlist when welcoming (3 months, not indefinitely)
• XFD: Add the nominated page to watchlist (1 month, not follow site preferences)
• XFD: Add the deletion discussion page to watchlist (1 month, not follow site preferences remain at follow site preferences per below)
• XFD: Add the daily log/list page to the watchlist (where applicable) (no)
• XFD: Add user talk page of initial contributor to watchlist (when notifying) (1 month, not follow site preferences)
• XFD: Add the redirect's target page to watchlist (when notifying) (1 month, not follow site preferences)
• Protect: Add when requesting protection (indefinitely)
• Protect: Add when tagging with protection template (follow site preferences)
• Protect: Add when protection (follow site preferences)

Obviously I'd love some input and feedback on this​​ as this is just me spitballing. I previously posted at VPT, I dunno if another notice should be placed. There are other venues that might be worth pinging. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 22:39, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

• @Amorymeltzer: You've obviously thought this through carefully and all of that sounds reasonable. Default watching is limited to forever or not at all; if that changes then we should revisit these settings. Certes (talk) 23:29, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
• XFD: Add the deletion discussion page to watchlist (1 month, not follow site preferences) I'd suggest indef. Deletion discussion pages are unlikely to get edits after 1 month, so unwatching it then is pointless. If someone were to file a DELREV after a month or vandalise it years later, those would be good things to find on a watchlist. – SD0001 (talk) 05:01, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

  Agreed; any given XFD, once it's closed, is rather unlikely to be edited (so it's not like it's going to be spamming our notifications), but having that notification is good (I would even add RFAs into that category for the same reason) mainly in cases of vandalism. Primefac (talk) 10:37, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

  Fair points indeed; changed back to follow site preferences, which it was before. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 00:54, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

• Be bold. Only thing is, if you're going to integrate this for a non-default watch (which is indefinite), you maybe need to tell people that watching these pages will watch them temporarily by default somewhere in the documentation. --Izno (talk) 21:33, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

  Sorry Izno, I'm having trouble parsing what you mean by integrate this for a non-default watch (which is indefinite). I think you're saying the above changes should be noted in the module itself? ~ Amory (u • t • c) 00:54, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

  Somewhere where it's advertised that pages are watched should be something that says "this is only a temporary watch; change your prefs over here". Maybe enough people will get it from the half-star, but it's kind of a radical change of behavior for old-timers (maybe in a couple years such a reminder could be removed). Could be documentation, could be in Twinkle itself. --Izno (talk) 02:15, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

  (Sorry for belated reply Izno, but that time of year(s)...) I'm not sure where to put such a thing. where might you suggest? I've tried to advertise this (VPT) but clearly minimal interest. Most watching prefs aren't noted visibly in the dialogs; I dunno that we want to clutter the dialogs by adding a line to note that the default has/will change. I suppose it wouldn't be the end of the world if it's a limited engagement, but that obviously has limited benefits for less-frequent users. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 21:25, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

  I was just thinking something like Wikipedia:Twinkle/doc#Default watchlist options as the simple-stupid. --Izno (talk) 22:09, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Dbatch

Went today to delete a bunch of templates from the holding cell via dbatch, and much to my dismay the pages Twinkle pulls up are in no particular order! It used to be that they were all alphabetized, and this new non-layout is frustrating when I'm trying to find two dozen templates mixed in with a half-hundred other pages that I don't want to delete. Primefac (talk) 15:37, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

I'd say worth a report upstream. The XML API (which we were using until recently) as well as the JSON formatversion=1 API both order pages by namespace number and then alphabetically. But JSON formatversion=2 API (which we are using now) is ordering pages by the page ID instead – which is basically the order by date of creation, oldest pages first.

Can also be fixed with client-side sorting, of course. – SD0001 (talk) 16:41, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Not sure how I'd do the second, given TW doesn't give me that option. Primefac (talk) 17:01, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

@Primefac: He meant that Twinkle could do it itself; I've thrown together a quick PR to do just that (apologies SD0001 if you were going to). ~ Amory (u • t • c) 17:51, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

That's what I figured, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask :-p Primefac (talk) 17:52, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

I'm not sure that it wasn't intentional. pageid is a reasonable thing to sort on, and doesn't run into language issues. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 22:43, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

This should now be fixed/changed. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 21:51, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Spacing between reports at WP:UAA

See Wikipedia talk:Username policy#Spacing. I believe I can say that we have a consensus there that it would be a good thing if Twinkle added an extra line with an asterisk at the bottom when making a report. The page gets very hard to edit when it is backlogged, which happens on a near-daily basis. The original idea was to just add a blank line but apparently that is really not good for persons using screen readers. This would seperate the reports, making it easier to see where they begin and end, while not causing accessibility issues. 00:13, 24 December 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beeblebrox (talk • contribs) 00:13, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

My reading of WP:INDENTGAP is indeed that that solution from RexxS works, but since there was no follow-up from Izno or Redrose64, yeah? ~ Amory (u • t • c) 21:54, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Yes, that solution works. --Izno (talk) 22:06, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

@Izno, Beeblebrox, and Deepfriedokra: PR opened. Would something similar be useful at WP:AIV? ~ Amory (u • t • c) 17:10, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm not sure it's needed at AIV... but I haven't really worked that board in years. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:08, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

This should be live now ~ Amory (u • t • c) 19:13, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Preview function

The preview function, that is quite handy and found in all of the welcome and warning templates (afaik) is oddly missing from the SharedIP templates (and all of it's the subs, such as DynamicIP, StaticIP, Edu, Gov't, etc.) Was that deliberate? Is it possible to add that function to those templates? (am I even asking in the right place?) Any help with this would be appreciated. Cheers - wolf 10:15, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

@Thewolfchild: Definitely the right place! Dunno about intentional, but it could be added if folks find useful. I opened an issue to track it. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 17:14, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

@Amorymeltzer: how about just adding it, or giving me template editor and I'll add it, then we can trial it, and go from there? - wolf 21:12, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

I think you're a bit confused — this isn't anything to do with the templates, it's with Twinkle's code itself. At any rate, TheTVExpert just opened a PR for it, which I'll try to review when I get a moment later this week. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 00:27, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

No, I came here as a result of the individual templates. I tried asking on another page but didn't get a response. I then tried here because there is more traffic. (And viola, I got a reply!) Thank you for your efforts, hopefully we can get something done - wolf 08:08, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Citing wikimedia template

Is it ok that a Twinkle interface editor can add it to Tag? --🔥LightningComplexFire🔥 20:47, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Because of the long list, it's good to indeed ask here before adding new template, since it's unclear how often a new template would get used. You can add custom templates in you Twinkle preferences, though! ~ Amory (u • t • c) 16:57, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

@Amorymeltzer: I added it to my custom list, but it doesn't load and I reloaded the cache twice. --🔥LightningComplexFire🔥 15:01, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Never mind, I forgot to save it! --🔥LightningComplexFire🔥 15:06, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

! Please give priority to the URLs found to be fraudulent use of Wikimedia Taiwan. The address is: www.wiki.com/zh-tw. There are advertisements, and there are download links, 翼蝶蝶 (talk) 12:47, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Rollback feature requests

Just a few wishes, probably as options, in order of priority:

1. Don't reload the page when rolling back from article history - I have the option set for contribs, I wish I could have it for history. It would speed things up a lot, since it takes several seconds and it's almost never what I want to do.
2. Rollback links in the watchlist - I can use standard rollback, but for non-vandalism I prefer Twinkle's (not marking "minor" etc.). The time saved by not having to go to another page would more than make up for any slowness in loading the watchlist. #1 would also apply here.
3. "Rollback (AGF)" links in contribs and history pages - the extra few seconds of having to go to a diff page means I don't use "AGF" as often as I'd like. An alternative would be to add a checkbox to the standard rollback edit summary box, to add the AGF text.
4. A selection of canned/custom edit summaries - I have a list of standard ones that I copy and paste (most popular: "Unsourced and unexplained change that contradicts the existing source"). I wish this could be built in to the edit summary box.
5. A pony - would also be nice to have.

--IamNotU (talk) 15:04, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

I used Twinkle to deliver you a pony on your talk page.[1] Please take good care of it. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 🎄 18:45, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Awesome! --IamNotU (talk) 21:07, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Odd prod

Eddie891 issued me a Twinkle-generated prod notice for Joe Roche, which was created by David Straub, not me. I made exactly one very minor AWB edit to the article, in 2009, three and a half years after its creation. Any idea why Twinkle selected me to notify? MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 18:43, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

I received a similar notice from a normally careful editor. Something may be amiss with Twinkle. Certes (talk) 18:55, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

A recent bug was causing the 50th editor of the page (or the latest editor in case the page has <50 edits) to be identified as creator if the first revision was a redirect.  Fixed in 3dd033e. – SD0001 (talk) 20:21, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Just saw this, so now pushed. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 21:49, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

new tag for file tagging

When tagging files, I suggest adding the tag Template:Userspace file, could have used it a few times. --TheImaCow (talk) 20:06, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

...like here. --TheImaCow (talk) 20:48, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Revert edit summaries

I just got a dressing down (followed by an apology) from an admin because of a Twinkle-based revert. I have made the same error several times. It seems that the wording of "‎reverted ... edit(s) by _" is quite similar to "reverted to revision ... by _" and can be easily mistaken for one another. Is it possible to change the wording? Possibly changing the wording of the latter to "restoring to ..."? Walter Görlitz (talk) 08:29, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm neutral on this idea and think more input would be good, but I opened a PR. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 19:12, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

CSD nomination box error

When one nominates an article for speedy deletion, and selects the "multiple criteria" box, the "Custom rationale with {{db}}" option disappears. I assume this was meant to be the other way round - {{db}} should only be used with other csd criteria. Thank you for your time. Opal|zukor^(discuss) 14:10, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

@Opalzukor: This is most likely because {{db}} is not supported by {{db-multiple}}. TheTVExpert (talk) 15:35, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Watchlist error after rollback

This may be a bug: my Twinkle settings are set so that following a rollback the page is put on my watchlist for a week. However, Twinkle has repeatedly put those articles on my watchlist indefinitely. Before anyone asks, I have cleared the browser's cache.

Sdrqaz (talk) 21:50, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Yup, bug. Should be fixed now! Thanks for the report. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 01:41, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Much appreciated, Amory. Thought I was going crazy! Sdrqaz (talk) 15:33, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Missing Contributions log entry

I used Twinkle (CSD) today to initiate a G8 speedy deletion for the flagged broken redirect Hillside, California (disambiguation). The bot Fastily completed the request at 16:07 UTC, on 10 January 2021, but I see no entry in my user contributions log for the edit I made to the disambiguation page.

Not sure if this is a Twinkle or MediaWiki concern (found nothing in this Project's Talk page archives about it) but thought I'd start here for some feedback. Thank you! — WILDSTAR^talk 19:06, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

When a page is deleted, all revisions of the page are deleted, and will no longer be visible except to administrators. You have around 145 deleted edits.

As for Twinkle, if you want to save a record of pages you nominate under CSD, you can enable a userspace log in your Twinkle preferences, see Wikipedia:Twinkle/Preferences#speedy. Similar logs exist for PROD and XfD nominations.

Also, Fastily is not a bot ;) ~ Amory (u • t • c) 00:50, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Amorymeltzer, just tested that on our MW. I had never noticed it before... but you are absolutely correct!  :) Thank you! — WILDSTAR^talk 05:01, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

A breaking change I made

Hello, fellow Twinkle users. I have added 2 commas to uw-multipleIPs. -Shift674-🌀 ^contribs 17:50, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Shift674, a "breaking change" means a change which breaks or otherwise significantly changes the functionality of the template. Adding commas to fix grammar is not something that we need to notified about. Primefac (talk) 11:09, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Redirect tagging doesn't include {{R to subpage}}

Pretty much title. I'd like to be able to speedily tag redirects with {{R to subpage}}, but I can't, it just isn't in the list. If I need to post this to GitHub, I can do that too. Elliot321 (talk | contribs) 22:26, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

I've found it's missing others too, like {{R for convenience}}. Elliot321 (talk | contribs) 22:59, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

​Currently, the list Twinkle offers is populated with the contents of Template:R template index. That template intentionally doesn't include all possible Rcats (although I'm not sure on the "decision" process) which IMO is a fine proxy for Twinkle since having to include every possible Rcat gets unwieldy. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 12:43, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Found a fake Wiki URL

Found the cause of the incident: I used the Google search engine to verify a message published in the Android Developer Control Center. 以我的習慣性質都會使用wiki.org 查證消息來源，這是我多年的經歷，使用一般網站查詢資料檔案，第一個最困擾的就是廣告，廣告有兩個地方會出現，a.使用Google做預設的搜尋引擎，搜尋查找關鍵字在如果把地區設定在居住地：台灣 置頂的網頁都是廣告，一整個頁面25欄就有一半都是屬於廣告性質，其他的網頁內容有25％屬於新聞（這種網頁內部還是又有廣告遮蓋了50％文章頁面）剩下的25％的網頁無差別性質（內容也是50％被廣告遮住了文字） 我簡單的說明主旨，這就是我選擇來Wiki找尋資料，因為這裡沒有廣告，資料也有引用的相關網址可查證，剛才我發現了這個用wiki.com/zh-tw的網址內部出現了廣告，我雖然已經使用wiki查資料的時間長達8年了，但是我剛才差一點無法辨識上述的網址是不是前2天我們在進行的跨語言合併專案後出現的中文版頁面，唯一的確認真偽之處就是廣告，所以我才又直接使用網址列輸入wiki.org 才證實了剛才看到的又是一個冒用wiki百科全書的網址。這個問題要趕緊處理，後果會引起讀者使用內部的Google play 或是 Apple store下載了錯誤的版本。到時候台灣的人民會把這種錯誤訊息誤解成Wiki媒體基金會發佈的app。我在台灣沒影響力可以代表wiki去解釋。台灣有三個代表Wikimedia 有問題就找這些管理員 翼蝶蝶 (talk) 12:42, 13 January 2021 (UTC)